My new tank experience managing CO2 and pH

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What is "bubble scrub"?

driving lots of small bubbles into the water. They can essentially make the whole tank act like a skimmer. It’s a technology with some benefit and an excessive amount of incorrect hype by some proponents.

 

[MoorishIdol814]

What is "bubble scrub"?

This is when you use an air pump with stone (I use a wooden one), typically in the evening/ overnight hours. This is placed near your return pump, which helps to further break up the already micro/ small bubbles and dispurse into your Display Tank. It is said, this helps to clean and stabilize your tank. Here https://reefstable.com/blog/micro-bubble-scrubbing-reef-tank/ is a link with more info.

 

[Morpheosz]

driving lots of small bubbles into the water. They can essentially make the whole tank act like a skimmer. It’s a technology with some benefit and an excessive amount of incorrect hype by some proponents.

I tried one more experiment based on the discussion around losing out on gas exchange / oxygenation in this thread (and I'm not terribly interested in flooding my whole tank with bubbles and the ensuing mess that could make). I purchased a relatively inexpensive large Tetra air pump and hooked its two outlets up to a 4" air stone in my sump overnight hoping it might further help mitigate the pH drop overnight by pulling more CO2 out. It did not seem to have any effect, in fact after running it overnight last night, my pH graph looked identical to the night before. Given the result, and salt creep mess it will make and associated hassle, I think I'm going to deem it an unnecessary addition. Perhaps hooking it up to outside air or smaller bubbles would make a difference, which I may have pursued had I seen any change, but seeing zero change doesn't motivate me to keep tweaking it.

 

[MoorishIdol814]

I tried one more experiment based on the discussion around losing out on gas exchange / oxygenation in this thread (and I'm not terribly interested in flooding my whole tank with bubbles and the ensuing mess that could make). I purchased a relatively inexpensive large Tetra air pump and hooked its two outlets up to a 4" air stone in my sump overnight hoping it might further help mitigate the pH drop overnight by pulling more CO2 out. It did not seem to have any effect, in fact after running it overnight last night, my pH graph looked identical to the night before. Given the result, and salt creep mess it will make and associated hassle, I think I'm going to deem it an unnecessary addition. Perhaps hooking it up to outside air or smaller bubbles would make a difference, which I may have pursued had I seen any change, but seeing zero change doesn't motivate me to keep tweaking it.

Morpheosz, I don't get any salt creep, however I'm using a wooden air stone to achieve a very micro bubble prior to the return pulling the bubbles in. Also, I don't have the stone/diffuser under the return, so it only pulls the tiny micro bubbles into the pump. I use Lee's, link below.
Lee's Wooden Air Diffuser, 3-Inch, 2-Pack

 

[areefer01]

I often wonder about chasing pH numbers in home aquaria. Is the effort and cost worth the small increase. Aquaculture I can see. Home / hobby I do not unless it is abnormally low or outside the recommended range.

Interesting thread never the less. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I often wonder about chasing pH numbers in home aquaria. Is the effort and cost worth the small increase. Aquaculture I can see. Home / hobby I do not unless it is abnormally low or outside the recommended range.

Interesting thread never the less. Thanks for sharing.

It all depends on your goals.

Same holds true for stabilizing alk extensively, etc.

 

[areefer01]

It all depends on your goals.

Same holds true for stabilizing alk extensively, etc.

Of course. I 100% agree. But does that slight increase actually do anything? I think this has been open to debate for years now.

 

[MoorishIdol814]

Of course. I 100% agree. But does that slight increase actually do anything? I think this has been open to debate for years now.

Bit more than a slight increase I would say... 7.89 before changing my media, then 8.3+ with dips into the high 8.2's. I will keep a watchful eye on things and report back after keeping pH above the 8 marker instead of just letting it ride like previous. I could give you much better info, however I was on the recieving end of TMPro salt crushing 90% of my tank/SPS heavy in the last year. I'm just now on the recovery, upswing.

 

[areefer01]

Bit more than a slight increase I would say... 7.89 before changing my media, then 8.3+ with dips into the high 8.2's. I will keep a watchful eye on things and report back after keeping pH above the 8 marker instead of just letting it ride like previous. I could give you much better info, however I was on the recieving end of TMPro salt crushing 90% of my tank/SPS heavy in the last year. I'm just now on the recovery, upswing.

Of course. I think it works out to 5% give or take. Please note it is only my thought on the subject as it relates to a number, the cost, and of course results. I think Randy noted it comes down to goals and I agree. I'm definitely not here to say you are wrong

Sorry to hear about the loss and salt issue. I've been following that as I am also a user of the salt. Oddly enough I always thought I was using buckets from Germany. I was using a bucket last week for moving some water when I decided to look at its manufacture location. Turns out it was Turkey Never once noticed any smell or residual or other negative effects so I sent a email off to TM along with pictures of the bucket. Not sure if there are any lot numbers on there they can use for their investigation. Also let them know how I use it, the approximate gallons made per water change, container, etc.

It is a good thread and information. Keep up the great work!

 

[Morpheosz]

I often wonder about chasing pH numbers in home aquaria. Is the effort and cost worth the small increase. Aquaculture I can see. Home / hobby I do not unless it is abnormally low or outside the recommended range.

Interesting thread never the less. Thanks for sharing.

I would say that it bears remembering that the pH scale is logarithmic, so what looks like a small increase (in my case from 7.9 to 8.2 for daytime highs) is a bigger increase than it appears and since I've moved it up by that 0.3 average, the daily alkalinity / calcium uptake has increased significantly (which in theory correlates to something in the tank growing more)

 

[areefer01]

I would say that it bears remembering that the pH scale is logarithmic, so what looks like a small increase (in my case from 7.9 to 8.2 for daytime highs) is a bigger increase than it appears and since I've moved it up by that 0.3 average, the daily alkalinity / calcium uptake has increased significantly (which in theory correlates to something in the tank growing more)

Of course. The "in theory" part is the crux of the problem What does that even mean as there is a lot more going on with the system than just the pH number.

But as I said - this is a "me" issue, not a "you" Hope your Friday is off to a good start!

 

[Morpheosz]

Of course. The "in theory" part is the crux of the problem What does that even mean as there is a lot more going on with the system than just the pH number.

But as I said - this is a "me" issue, not a "you" Hope your Friday is off to a good start!

I've been measuring my alkalinity daily since my tank started and I can see a clear correlation between higher pH days (e.g. when it hit's 8.23) vs lower pH days (e.g. it only hits 8.17) and on the higher days, my alk reading is quite a bit lower the next day. So that part is not theory in my personal experience

Also, if you haven't come across this yet, the BRS folks ran an experiment that went a ways towards taking this beyond hypothesis or theory...

 

[areefer01]

I've been measuring my alkalinity daily since my tank started and I can see a clear correlation between higher pH days (e.g. when it hit's 8.23) vs lower pH days (e.g. it only hits 8.17) and on the higher days, my alk reading is quite a bit lower the next day. So that part is not theory in my personal experience

Also, if you haven't come across this yet, the BRS folks ran an experiment that went a ways towards taking this beyond hypothesis or theory...

Yep, aware of the BRS content. Thanks.

Sounds like you have a good foundation of monitoring the change to include coral growth and weight.