OP
OP
I'll find out as I'm not sure. I'll also ask about what their parameters should be.
My parameters are out of wack in my first salt water nano reef (fluval evo 13.5)
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Before spending so much in Hanna tests, do some research. Some of them work great, others are not worth it.
Alkalinity, Salifert is good
Calcium, Salifert is good, API is ok
Phosphate, Hanna ultra low phosphorus
Nitrate, Nyos is good
Magnesium, Aqua forest
Realize that these are hobby tests and none of them are perfect. They do give us trends though. The only test that most reefers do frequently is for ALK as it gets used up quickly.
OP
OP
Thank you for the information on the test kits. I'll get the Salifert test for Alk as well.Before spending so much in Hanna tests, do some research. Some of them work great, others are not worth it.
Alkalinity, Salifert is good
Calcium, Salifert is good, API is ok
Phosphate, Hanna ultra low phosphorus
Nitrate, Nyos is good
Magnesium, Aqua forest
Realize that these are hobby tests and none of them are perfect. They do give us trends though. The only test that most reefers do frequently is for ALK as it gets used up quickly.
Is there anything you recommend for ammonia?
You’re welcome!
I have not tested for ammonia in years, So I’m not sure. Once a tank is cycled an ammonia test isn’t really needed.
Seachem makes a badge that goes in the tank. No experience though. You have the API now, correct? I’d just use that. Just be aware of what Homer posted about it.
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Unless you are cycling, there's no need to measure ammonia or nitrite.
OP
OP
Noted! Thanks guys.
OP
OP
Also I'm thinking about giving my banggai cardinals to a friend of mine. Do you guys think I should keep them or give them up? Right now I have 5 fish in the tank including them and 4-6 snails (few of them are super tiny. Like the size of my pinky nail), 3 shrimp, 2 hermit crabs, and a few emerald crabs. I'm thinking I have too much stuff in my tank and should donate a couple fish to help balance out the parameters. If I give up the cardinals I'll have 1 wyoming white, 1 tailspot blenny, and one green war paint goby including the reef cleaners I mentioned above.
ReefB nice job paring down for easier loading in the new tank agreed it’ll save those fish.
Aqua Man
whats your recommend for fish disease preps here? I couldn’t figure out how a pic of your tank was relevant
does disease factor at all, how should he prep for it, and how’d we get to page two with no discussion on it
what I think happened: post in chemistry forum, gets a hyper focus on chemistry
let’s do the disease prep discussion. Bottle bac kept the system alive as it does so well, the loss here isn’t from cycling we can see that after tan factoring his stated ammonia levels.
so the whole time, no losses were tied to chemistry or the whole tank would be crashed today, it’s been disease from the start?
Aqua Man
whats your recommend for fish disease preps here? I couldn’t figure out how a pic of your tank was relevant
does disease factor at all, how should he prep for it, and how’d we get to page two with no discussion on it
what I think happened: post in chemistry forum, gets a hyper focus on chemistry
let’s do the disease prep discussion. Bottle bac kept the system alive as it does so well, the loss here isn’t from cycling we can see that after tan factoring his stated ammonia levels.
so the whole time, no losses were tied to chemistry or the whole tank would be crashed today, it’s been disease from the start?
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OP
OP
Hey guys so I think I have a major problem with my LFS. Theit water doesn't seem to be conditioned properly.
I bought the hanna alkalinity tester and it's also saying my dkh is above 20. The meter only goes up to 20 so it's definitely above that. Last time I did a test with the api kit and my dkh measured 21. I did two tests to be sure and they were both at 21 dkh.
I seriously don't know what to do. They're my only source of water and now I'm even worried that the R/O water isn't treated properly.
What should I do? I'm seriously considering buying a RODI system and mixing my own saltwater. Does anyone have any recommendations for RODI systems?
I looked online for other sources of water but they're an absolute ripoff to get. I'm looking at around $10-15 for 4.5gal of premixed saltwater.
EDIT: Also for anyone wondering I gave my cardinals to my friend this morning. So now I only have my Wyoming White, Green Goby, and Tailspot Blenny and the handful of reef cleaners I mentioned before.
I bought the hanna alkalinity tester and it's also saying my dkh is above 20. The meter only goes up to 20 so it's definitely above that. Last time I did a test with the api kit and my dkh measured 21. I did two tests to be sure and they were both at 21 dkh.
I seriously don't know what to do. They're my only source of water and now I'm even worried that the R/O water isn't treated properly.
What should I do? I'm seriously considering buying a RODI system and mixing my own saltwater. Does anyone have any recommendations for RODI systems?
I looked online for other sources of water but they're an absolute ripoff to get. I'm looking at around $10-15 for 4.5gal of premixed saltwater.
EDIT: Also for anyone wondering I gave my cardinals to my friend this morning. So now I only have my Wyoming White, Green Goby, and Tailspot Blenny and the handful of reef cleaners I mentioned before.
I’m curious to see what chemists say about that reading, nice post. Seems we’d be either at precipitation levels or burn pH levels with that if it was correct, can those meters misread if not calibrated? I was thinking those are pretty good meters
curious to see what others recommend. Thankfully in a small nano it’s not hard to change water for verified safe levels water, I know of no salt that would ever mix that high and if your tank water isn’t cloudy and fish seem normal, I question the read validity. Can’t wait to see what the chemists think of that read.
curious to see what others recommend. Thankfully in a small nano it’s not hard to change water for verified safe levels water, I know of no salt that would ever mix that high and if your tank water isn’t cloudy and fish seem normal, I question the read validity. Can’t wait to see what the chemists think of that read.
OP
OP
I did a water change so my tank is pretty cloudy right now. It's been a few hours and it still hasn't cleared up. Usually it only takes like an hour for it to clear up. No matter how many water changes I do with their water my dkh keeps rising.
I submitted a water sample to home depot but I don't know how good that is. I saw a free test kit for water and I took it and sent in a sample today.
Do you think I should get an RODI system? They seem pretty affordable. I was looking at the 7 stage system at bulk reef supply but not sure if that'll be overkill. I honestly don't know how good my water is so I was thinking 7-stage to be safe.
The API kit and this meter both read above 20. I tested twice with the API kit, both times with brand new vials and pippetes. Same with the Hanna kit. I did a test on my aquarium then the actual saltwater from my LFS straight from the 5 gallon container and it also read high both times.
I truly run my 17 year old nano reef as above. I buy only premade lfs water, I don’t even care what brand it is. They usually short me on salinity selling me some .020 crapola lol but I keep some kent salt from Amazon on hand to bring up salinity i like mine high, .026 ish and even .027 if it happens that way. My preference only, I don’t keep fish so there’s wiggle room for me mines just a coral pack tank.
I have no idea what they use for ro or what the nitrate and po4 and pH is in my tank, ever. I simply feed heavy and change water routinely
for sure there are times I wish I had my own make water but it’s not worth it in my little apartment to buy one, my lfs sells good water. It’s Fritz brand salt that I add Kent to in order to bring up salinity lol talk about a hodgepodge.
if you are thinking on producing your own make water this is certainly the right forum to ask about RO DI setups, how many stages needed etc I’m not sure how that works.
to give best advice they’re going to want to know your average total dissolved solids from the tap and it’s basic chemical breakdown in order to recommend the right stage assembly
I have no idea what they use for ro or what the nitrate and po4 and pH is in my tank, ever. I simply feed heavy and change water routinely
for sure there are times I wish I had my own make water but it’s not worth it in my little apartment to buy one, my lfs sells good water. It’s Fritz brand salt that I add Kent to in order to bring up salinity lol talk about a hodgepodge.
if you are thinking on producing your own make water this is certainly the right forum to ask about RO DI setups, how many stages needed etc I’m not sure how that works.
to give best advice they’re going to want to know your average total dissolved solids from the tap and it’s basic chemical breakdown in order to recommend the right stage assembly
Karen00
2500 Club Member
Has the lfs told you what their water should be? I doubt they would be able to keep coral with an alk reading like that (unless they are a fish only shop). I don't know if alk that high would affect fish as well.
As for your tap water, most municipalities post what the tap water should be but that doesn't mean it's coming out of your tap like that depending on your pipes but it would give you a place to start if you can get that info. You can also test your tap water yourself but if you have broader concerns you can send it out for an ICP test. The results might help determine what type of RODI system you get especially if you have concerns about heavy metals or higher than desirable levels for other parameters.
I thought I read everything you posted so forgive me if i missed this but did your cycle finish meaning you saw the rise then fall of ammonia and nitrites only to be left with nitrates? Maybe I read your first comment wrong but it sounded like your cycle hadn't finished. The other parameters are just whacky which is why they should tell you what the water is mixed at in their store.
If your water is cloudy then you might have broken your cycle. Hopefully that's not the case but I would retest ammonia just in case.
As for your tap water, most municipalities post what the tap water should be but that doesn't mean it's coming out of your tap like that depending on your pipes but it would give you a place to start if you can get that info. You can also test your tap water yourself but if you have broader concerns you can send it out for an ICP test. The results might help determine what type of RODI system you get especially if you have concerns about heavy metals or higher than desirable levels for other parameters.
I thought I read everything you posted so forgive me if i missed this but did your cycle finish meaning you saw the rise then fall of ammonia and nitrites only to be left with nitrates? Maybe I read your first comment wrong but it sounded like your cycle hadn't finished. The other parameters are just whacky which is why they should tell you what the water is mixed at in their store.
If your water is cloudy then you might have broken your cycle. Hopefully that's not the case but I would retest ammonia just in case.
OP
OP
Honestly I'm not sure if it did finish cycling. I did everything my LFS told me like adding the turbo start bacteria and letting it do its thing for over a week.
Right now I'm lightly feeding it bacteria everyday to hopefully stabalize the cycle.
I haven't asked my LFS about their water yet. Honestly I'm a little nervous because I don't know how they'll react if I tell them. I'm pretty sure I did the alkalinity test properly. I tried both api and and hanna and both were above 21 dkh. I have a red sea test kit coming Friday so I'll try that as well but something tells me it'll be the same result if not worse
Karen00
2500 Club Member
You don't have to say anything to them about your test results. Just ask them for the parameters of their water so you know what your baseline is. Any reputable place would have no issues telling you what the parameters are of the water you're buying from them. After all you have no idea what to adjust if you don't know what you're starting with and they would know this and would want to make sure your successful. Right now you're flailing in the dark because you don't know if the issues are with their water or whether something is going on once you get it home. Do you have a friend/fellow reefer that can also test their water to double check your results and to also give you an idea of whether what they tell you is accurate regarding their water. This will also guide you in determining whether you need to start making your own water. To be honest you probably should start making your own. I would be very uneasy about being totally reliant on someone else for my water. What if they suddenly closed their doors or something happened that they can't make water for a few weeks?
OP
OP
Do you know if RODI systems remove hardness? I checked the report for the water in my area and its between 14-23 with and average about 17.
Karen00
2500 Club Member
Hardness usually comes from natural elements like calcium and magnesium and I think other metals (which may or may not be natural. Do they give you a breakdown? RODI systems are supposed to remove everything (like distilled water). The idea is you remove everything in the water then add it back in with the salt you buy. Theoretically salt made with RODI water should mix to the levels that are listed on the bag/bucket of salt. I'm sure it's never exactly as per the listed levels but it gives you a close enough idea of what you're dealing with when the water goes into your tank then depending on the uptake of your corals additional dosing might be required.
I think what you can do is research what the extra levels of filtration of the various RODI systems will give you. I currently use just tap water for my system because it's pretty clean and my corals are very easy corals so at this point I don't need RODI so I haven't researched the difference between 3 stage, 5 stage or 7 stage systems. I'm assuming it's finer and finer filtration. I'm assuming those folks that need 7 stage probably can't drink the water from their taps. Some members can probably comment on this if your research still leaves you with questions but you can also email the manufacturers for more details and answers to your questions. I'm always emailing manufacturers.
They can probably also guide you if you're able to give them details of the breakdown of your tap water. You also have to feel secure that your plumbing might not be adding anything extra. My house is really old and so was the plumbing when I bought it. I would've had to do an ICP test if I got into saltwater prior to my renovations because I'm sure my old pipes were contributing stuff to my water. When I renovated I replaced all the plumbing and coincidentally my street's main pipe was upgraded so everything is new. I'm hoping that means I can do a 3 stage system if I start doing RODI.
OP
OP
Thanks for the reply!Hardness usually comes from natural elements like calcium and magnesium and I think other metals (which may or may not be natural. Do they give you a breakdown? RODI systems are supposed to remove everything (like distilled water). The idea is you remove everything in the water then add it back in with the salt you buy. Theoretically salt made with RODI water should mix to the levels that are listed on the bag/bucket of salt. I'm sure it's never exactly as per the listed levels but it gives you a close enough idea of what you're dealing with when the water goes into your tank then depending on the uptake of your corals additional dosing might be required.
I think what you can do is research what the extra levels of filtration of the various RODI systems will give you. I currently use just tap water for my system because it's pretty clean and my corals are very easy corals so at this point I don't need RODI so I haven't researched the difference between 3 stage, 5 stage or 7 stage systems. I'm assuming it's finer and finer filtration. I'm assuming those folks that need 7 stage probably can't drink the water from their taps. Some members can probably comment on this if your research still leaves you with questions but you can also email the manufacturers for more details and answers to your questions. I'm always emailing manufacturers.
After some research on my areas water I think I'm gonna play it safe and go with a 7-stage filtration. I'm also going to be ordering Red Seas Coral Pro Salt Mix so hopefully I get my water right after all this.
Karen00
2500 Club Member
Excellent! I'm sure you will rest more peacefully once you start doing your own saltwater because from that point forward you will have full control of your system which means a more stable system. Those were really whacky numbers you were getting which couldn't have been healthy for your inhabitants. Keep us updated as to your progress with this.
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