My reef-pi build freshwater style!

[crusso1993]

It's always fantastic when the things we plan work as well as we plan them.

Happy you and your wife are thrilled with the new sump set up!

 

[Bigtrout]

Sump project done!
Reef pi remounted in cabinet...sensors all placed...heaters etc all hidden in the sump.

Herbie on my hob dialed in...gets silent within 45 secs of starting the return pump

I used a 3 way corner fitting as my outlet so it shoots the water 2 ways in the tank. I need to grab another and paint it black with krylon for plastic... it sticks out like a sore thumb.

Need to go to glass shop and have some 1/4 inch glass cut to make lids for the sump to cut down on evaporation during winter.

 

[Bigtrout]

Its obvious the sump needs covered...losing alot of heat as water vapor. But I dont wanna totally seal it for some air exchange. Since my plumbing enters at each end Ill let them open but cover the bulk of the sump.

So stopped today at the glass shop and had 4 pieces cut 7x16.875. Nice 1/4 plate glass...total bill $20. This included buffing the edges so I dont get cut.

Found a box of drawer pulls at Goodwill. Perfect to silicone on as handles!

 

[Bigtrout]

Sump thoughts and observations so far:

WHY DIDNT I DO THIS YEARS AGO!

The good!
Much quieter with a tuned herbie!

Tank temps much steadier.

Water parameters steadier and water like crystal.

I had doubts about detritus on bottom not being filtered thru an overflow. With a good flow this isnt an issue.

Ph bounce from plants in strong light has lessened because I have more gas exchange to replenish CO2 from the air(i dont dose co2)

Much easier to clean than canisters.

Waterline always just above the tank trim.

The bad
I used every bit of space under my stand.

Evaporation! May have to look into an ATO of some type. With evaporation showing in the return chamber which was calculated so I cant possibly flood the main tank, a few dry winter days can deplete that chamber fast!

 

[crusso1993]

Sump thoughts and observations so far:

WHY DIDNT I DO THIS YEARS AGO!

The good!
Much quieter with a tuned herbie!

Tank temps much steadier.

Water parameters steadier and water like crystal.

I had doubts about detritus on bottom not being filtered thru an overflow. With a good flow this isnt an issue.

Ph bounce from plants in strong light has lessened because I have more gas exchange to replenish CO2 from the air(i dont dose co2)

Much easier to clean than canisters.

Waterline always just above the tank trim.

The bad
I used every bit of space under my stand.

Evaporation! May have to look into an ATO of some type. With evaporation showing in the return chamber which was calculated so I cant possibly flood the main tank, a few dry winter days can deplete that chamber fast!

Might be easier to cut a tubing hole into a piece of plexi and place it over the return chamber. Although an ATO would be a nice add on!

 

[Bigtrout]

Sump hasnt given me any trouble and I was in Chicago for a week for work. Wife didn't call in a panic! The water is so clear the fish look like they are floating in air!!!

One strange side effect since installing the sump. All the Black Brush Algae that took over all the wood in my tank is turning red and white and dying off. The plecos are going nuts. It must not be good to eat while living but they are feasting on it when it starts dying.

 

[Ranjib]

Sump hasnt given me any trouble and I was in Chicago for a week for work. Wife didn't call in a panic! The water is so clear the fish look like they are floating in air!!!

One strange side effect since installing the sump. All the Black Brush Algae that took over all the wood in my tank is turning red and white and dying off. The plecos are going nuts. It must not be good to eat while living but they are feasting on it when it starts dying.

You think it’s because they are runnning out of nutrients ? Sump would cause that ...

 

[Bigtrout]

You think it’s because they are runnning out of nutrients ? Sump would cause that ...

I think its because CO2 levels are steadier now with the added flow and sump. Theres a theory that black brush algae thrives in tanks with fluctuating CO2 levels.

 

[Bigtrout]

Another update:
The sump and python water changer has made maintenance so easy and quick that the tank is almost "boring"
I can do a 50 percent water change in 20 minutes compared to an hour of hauling 5 gallon buckets.

Next few tank projects:
ATO because the only down side to the sump so far is keeping up with evaporation to keep the return pump chamber full. Not sure if im going to use reef pi ato capabilities or roll my own ATO with relay logic as additional failsafes and some hysteresis built into it.

Another project is to use the middle sump chamber to grow emersed golden pothos to use up nitrates. So reef pi will have to control another light

 

[crusso1993]

Another update:
The sump and python water changer has made maintenance so easy and quick that the tank is almost "boring"
I can do a 50 percent water change in 20 minutes compared to an hour of hauling 5 gallon buckets.

Next few tank projects:
ATO because the only down side to the sump so far is keeping up with evaporation to keep the return pump chamber full. Not sure if im going to use reef pi ato capabilities or roll my own ATO with relay logic as additional failsafes and some hysteresis built into it.

Another project is to use the middle sump chamber to grow emersed golden pothos to use up nitrates. So reef pi will have to control another light

Nothing like getting away from the buckets for water changes! I had been hauling 10, 5g buckets weekly until I made a redneck hillbilly doohickey water changer of my own.

I admire your attention to detail, savvy and clear explanations. Therefore, if you do go the "roll your own" route with the ATO can you please post details and pics either here or start an ATO thread and place a link here? Sure would appreciate it!

 

[Bigtrout]

Well to start some explanations on ATO.
When using a single float to fill a tank the circuit is simple. Float switch gets made and pump runs to fill the tank. The problem with this is wave action can cause the float to flutter and turn the pump on and off in rapid succession and burn up the pump.
Reef-pi gets around this by using time as a hysteresis. It checks the ato at an interval and turns the pump on and off depending on water level when checked. This works ok but doesnt allow for a few additional safeties that id like to see without additional sensors or wiring. What if the ato pump runs dry? What if reef pi locks up?
Reef pi is great but my build always allows fail safes in case reef pi goes haywire.
Case in point. I wired all my equipment outlets as normally closed. That way if reef pi fails my equipment still has power.
Second case in point is my heaters. I set my heaters with their own thermostats and then set reef pi to a temp just above that. That way if reef pi fails heaters run normally with their own thermostats but if a tstat sticks closed, reef pi takes over and shuts it down as a failsafe.

My ATO design whether using reef pi or not needs to have failsafes built in. I work away from home and dont need my wife calling in a panic about water on the floor, tank making noise, return pump cavitating and shutting off, fish dying etc.

 

[crusso1993]

Well to start some explanations on ATO.
When using a single float to fill a tank the circuit is simple. Float switch gets made and pump runs to fill the tank. The problem with this is wave action can cause the float to flutter and turn the pump on and off in rapid succession and burn up the pump.
Reef-pi gets around this by using time as a hysteresis. It checks the ato at an interval and turns the pump on and off depending on water level when checked. This works ok but doesnt allow for a few additional safeties that id like to see without additional sensors or wiring. What if the ato pump runs dry? What if reef pi locks up?
Reef pi is great but my build always allows fail safes in case reef pi goes haywire.
Case in point. I wired all my equipment outlets as normally closed. That way if reef pi fails my equipment still has power.
Second case in point is my heaters. I set my heaters with their own thermostats and then set reef pi to a temp just above that. That way if reef pi fails heaters run normally with their own thermostats but if a tstat sticks closed, reef pi takes over and shuts it down as a failsafe.

My ATO design whether using reef pi or not needs to have failsafes built in. I work away from home and dont need my wife calling in a panic about water on the floor, tank making noise, return pump cavitating and shutting off, fish dying etc.

One of the many things I dig about what you do is the failsafes you employ. Another reason you better share your design/build or I'll have to take a ride to PA!

 

[bishoptf]

Well to start some explanations on ATO.
When using a single float to fill a tank the circuit is simple. Float switch gets made and pump runs to fill the tank. The problem with this is wave action can cause the float to flutter and turn the pump on and off in rapid succession and burn up the pump.
Reef-pi gets around this by using time as a hysteresis. It checks the ato at an interval and turns the pump on and off depending on water level when checked. This works ok but doesnt allow for a few additional safeties that id like to see without additional sensors or wiring. What if the ato pump runs dry? What if reef pi locks up?
Reef pi is great but my build always allows fail safes in case reef pi goes haywire.
Case in point. I wired all my equipment outlets as normally closed. That way if reef pi fails my equipment still has power.
Second case in point is my heaters. I set my heaters with their own thermostats and then set reef pi to a temp just above that. That way if reef pi fails heaters run normally with their own thermostats but if a tstat sticks closed, reef pi takes over and shuts it down as a failsafe.

My ATO design whether using reef pi or not needs to have failsafes built in. I work away from home and dont need my wife calling in a panic about water on the floor, tank making noise, return pump cavitating and shutting off, fish dying etc.

@Bigtrout have you thought any more about this? I'm actually wanting to make have an ATO when I start up the new tank and like you would like to have some failsafes, my initial thought was to have a low water float in the ATO to turn the pump off when water is low and then have a float in the sump that will pull water when low. I'd actually like a third ATO float in my sump for the high water mark when my return pump is turned off, my sump drains several gallons and raises the water line in the sump and I was wanting to catch that and alert so I know I have a return pump issue. Still thinking it through, I have some flost switches coming in to play with, no decisions yet but was wondering what you were thinking about doing.

Thanks

 

[slojim]

I have a no-code failsafe if you are interested. I use an avast ATO with a pressure sensor. I use a float valve as the back-up. Since it runs a peristaltic pump, I tee in just before the float and run a return to the reservoir. Then if the pressure sensor fails, the float just makes it pump from the container back in to the container. I also have the pump on the lid of the container, with a hole drilled in the lid. IF the pump tubing leaks, again, it leaks into a reservoir.
I know - not as cool as code - but it was something I could set up on the day I was leaving town with parts on hand.

 

[Bigtrout]

Quick update. Reef-pi 3.31 has been performing stellarly! No problems whatsoever. And my tank has been plugging along very well with the sump. Mainenance including water changes are so much easier with a python and simply rinsing my sump sponges vs cleaning canister filters and hauling water in buckets.

Now im about as far as I go with a FW planted except for one thing...injecting co2 to help plant growth and to help with the ph drop that occurs when the plants really grow and use all the co2 up in my soft water.

Thanks to @Tom Bishop I have most of the pieces required to make a good solid co2 setup. Have a few more things to get and build. Will be adding the co2 system build to this build thread as I go.
I plan on using the ph controller, timers and macros in reef-pi to control my co2 system.

 

[bishoptf]

Quick update. Reef-pi 3.31 has been performing stellarly! No problems whatsoever. And my tank has been plugging along very well with the sump. Mainenance including water changes are so much easier with a python and simply rinsing my sump sponges vs cleaning canister filters and hauling water in buckets.

Now im about as far as I go with a FW planted except for one thing...injecting co2 to help plant growth and to help with the ph drop that occurs when the plants really grow and use all the co2 up in my soft water.

Thanks to @Tom Bishop I have most of the pieces required to make a good solid co2 setup. Have a few more things to get and build. Will be adding the co2 system build to this build thread as I go.
I plan on using the ph controller, timers and macros in reef-pi to control my co2 system.

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out!

 

[Bigtrout]

Grrrrr...some of my stuff delayed until saturday.

Until then ill start building out some of the parts to a solid co2 system. The most important part first...the regulator!!! Go cheap on the regulator and a phenomena known as the "end of tank dump" can happen and dump the remaining co2 from the bottle into the tank all at once and gas the fish with too muck co2...killing them.
A single stage regulator, although cheaper is prone to the end of tank dump. So you want to get a good 2 stage regulator. A 2 stage regulates co2 bottle pressure down to the pressures used to inject co2 in 2 stages, which keeps regulated pressure steadier as you near the end of the co2 bottle.

The regulator in using is an industrial regulator, fitted with parts to be usable for co2. Its a Victor VTS250d

Next to attach the gauges, one reads tank pressure, the other the regulated pressure. A few wraps of teflon tape to seal the threads

After carefully tightening the gauges i installed a 1/4npt to 1/8npt brass bushing and a 1/4" tubing push to connect fitting on the output. Im hiding my tank behind the stand and will remotely mount the solenoids, needle valve and flowmeter where they are more easily accesible. The completed regulator looks like this.

Next up: the solenoid
The solenoid valve uses electricity to open and close a valve. The solenoids I have are Clippard mouse solenoids. Only take .67 watts to operate and run very cool. Its an industrial type solenoid thats very dependable and can be run from a 6v wallwart plugged into reef-pi!
Problem with these are the ports are a very small 10/32 thread thats easily broken, which is why im panel mounting them instead of mounting to the regulator. Bang the regulator while changing tanks and the small fittings would break right off.

So remote mounted with 1/4 tubing push to connects it is!

Until i get more parts, decide on where im panel mounting the equipment and build my co2 reactor thats about as far as i go for now.

 

[Bigtrout]

Today was nice out and so I didnt get gassed with pvc fumes, I decided to build my co2 reactor. Basically the reactor mixes co2 and my aquarium water until the co2 dissolves into the water. A reactor can approach 100 percent efficiency so i dont lose co2 to the air if its not dissolved.

I decided to diy a style of reactor called a rex griggs. I had most of the parts already so was a great design with not alot of buying stuff and allowed me to use things laying around anyway.

The rex griggs reactor is a simple cylinder thats larger in diameter than the incoming water inlet. This slows the water down inside it. Partway down the cylinder the co2 is bubbled in thru a tube facing upwards in the center of the pipe. The co2 bubble will rise but the water will force it down until it dissolves into the water. As the bubbles get smaller they are suspended lower and lower in the cylinder. With enough cylinder length they dissolve completely. Tuning this reactor is by length of cylinder and flow. If flow is too slow bubbles build at the top of the reactor and make noise. If flow is too fast bubbles escape into the outgoing flow and you get microbubbles in the tank making it look like 7up.

Here are the parts laid out being primed and glued

Here is how im injecting the co2 into the center of the water column

Here is the completed unit with crude diagram of how it works.

I am going to run this off of a cheap 400gph pond pump so i can turn it off when im not injecting co2 at night. The pump will be in my sump and the water will be returned to the sump right by my main return pump inlet so the co2 rich water will be spread throughout the main aquarium.
I could have split off my main return plumbing to do this but with the HOB overflow with the herbie running so well i decided not to mess with main tank plumbing. Plus id have to turn the main tank pump up and mess with tuning the main tank herbie and the reactor loop. A seperate small pump makes more sense.

 

[Bigtrout]

While my plans come together ill explain the whole system and how it will work. Most importantly how im going to use reef-pi to control it.

My system will be laid out like this:

5 lb co2 bottle: co2 supply
Vts250c regulator: regulates co2 pressure
Solenoid: turns co2 on and off
Needle valve: adjusts co2 amount injected
Flowmeter: using this instead of a bubble counter to see how much co2 im injecting
Check valve: prevent aqauriumnwater from backing up into the co2 system when co2 is off
Reactor: diffuses co2 into the water.

My plan is to use macros in reef pi and set my co2 such that it can bring the while tank up to 20ppm in 2 hours before lights on. Then let the ph controller maintain that level until about an hour before lights off. Then let the reactor run for another hour or two to clear any co2 that still may be in there.

The standard way to measure how much you are injecting is with a bubble counter. But with a 75 gallon, who can count 5 to 10 bubbles per second? Plus bubble counters are very imprecise, because every one has different orifices and make different sized bubbles.
For this reason im using a flowmeter. There is a thread on the planted tank forums explaining which ones measure very low flows that we are using in aquariums. Bettatail on that forum has tested and has calibration charts for some of these. Normally they are hundreds of dollars but not many sellers know the true value and they can be had for a steal with careful research.

Here is the one i found on ebay.

 

[bishoptf]

While my plans come together ill explain the whole system and how it will work. Most importantly how im going to use reef-pi to control it.

My system will be laid out like this:

5 lb co2 bottle: co2 supply
Vts250c regulator: regulates co2 pressure
Solenoid: turns co2 on and off
Needle valve: adjusts co2 amount injected
Flowmeter: using this instead of a bubble counter to see how much co2 im injecting
Check valve: prevent aqauriumnwater from backing up into the co2 system when co2 is off
Reactor: diffuses co2 into the water.

My plan is to use macros in reef pi and set my co2 such that it can bring the while tank up to 20ppm in 2 hours before lights on. Then let the ph controller maintain that level until about an hour before lights off. Then let the reactor run for another hour or two to clear any co2 that still may be in there.

The standard way to measure how much you are injecting is with a bubble counter. But with a 75 gallon, who can count 5 to 10 bubbles per second? Plus bubble counters are very imprecise, because every one has different orifices and make different sized bubbles.
For this reason im using a flowmeter. There is a thread on the planted tank forums explaining which ones measure very low flows that we are using in aquariums. Bettatail on that forum has tested and has calibration charts for some of these. Normally they are hundreds of dollars but not many sellers know the true value and they can be had for a steal with careful research.

Here is the one i found on ebay.

Any updates, was wondering how things were progressing.