My so far successful Diatoms Eliminator

[Lasse]

I think you have the biodiversity that wold cycle all that silica into biomass of your tank inhabitants.

You have an amazing system Lasse.

I think newer systems with dead rock and new sand just have “issues” for a while. I know mine is having them.

Thank you

Yes - it is IME a new tank syndrome. But the normal explanation to this have always been that a new tank have Si in it and because diatoms consume silica - they will grow till the silica is depleted and the problem is gone. People spend hundred of dollar in order to have a silica free water into the tank. With the new ICP technique - it easily shown that silica is not consumed down to zero in normal tanks - instead a concentration between 100 and 200 µg is common - if there is some in the RO water or not is not important comparing with how much the limestone rocks leak.

But what is the reasons why diatoms is a new tank syndrome? IMO - of two total different reasons. New tanks are very low in phosphate. Diatoms are specialised to use very, very low concentrations of phosphate - much lower than other organisms. They will grow in nearly zero µg PO4. The second reason is that people are afraid to load their tanks with CUC before they see anything that grow. This is - IMO - a fundamental mistake - there is food even if your eyes do not see it and if the biomass of algae is low - the CUC will be able to eat the daily production and keep the biomass of algae under control. If you wait until you can see your algae - when you are much, much to late.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SMSREEF]

Thank you

Yes - it is IME a new tank syndrome. But the normal explanation to this have always been that a new tank have Si in it and because diatoms consume silica - they will grow till the silica is depleted and the problem is gone. People spend hundred of dollar in order to have a silica free water into the tank. With the new ICP technique - it easily shown that silica is not consumed down to zero in normal tanks - instead a concentration between 100 and 200 µg is common - if there is some in the RO water or not is not important comparing with how much the limestone rocks leak.

But what is the reasons why diatoms is a new tank syndrome? IMO - of two total different reasons. New tanks are very low in phosphate. Diatoms are specialised to use very, very low concentrations of phosphate - much lower than other organisms. They will grow in nearly zero µg PO4. The second reason is that people are afraid to load their tanks with CUC before they see anything that grow. This is - IMO - a fundamental mistake - there is food even if your eyes do not see it and if the biomass of algae is low - the CUC will be able to eat the daily production and keep the biomass of algae under control. If you wait until you can see your algae - when you are much, much to late.

Sincerely Lasse

I see what you mean now.

Yes, lots of wasted money on media to absorb stuff that will actually be put to good use if you have a diverse tank. And a lot of frustration chasing a number that is not a problem in the first place.

I did this and wish I hadn’t because it gives all the real estate to Dino’s which will thrive in the low PO4 environment too. I’ll take diatoms any day

 

[Scottmac]

There is a lot of different diatoms - some could be affected of the light switch - this article explain a little about the photosynthesis of diatoms.

Sincerely Lasse

As you seem to have an imaginative approach to the marine hobby from what I have read of your posts Lasse, have you ever tried a tank with no sand and just shelf rock on the bottom, rear and sides? A rock pool effect in other words...

If you used locally-sourced rock from your closest coast and ensured it was darkly-coloured, it wouldn't matter if diatoms and algae were present as they wouldn't be very visible even if the rock contained silicate.

I also think it would look incredibly cool. The only problem i'd imagine facing is that you would have to ensure the rockwork was attached very tightly to the glass otherwise fish could get trapped. I have also seen resin rock faces for backing you could use.

That would be one solution to diatoms! If anyone has ever tried this tank layout pls post a pic!

Scott

 

[Lasse]

We have run cold water tanks nearly in that way but we also have an algae named "green slick" that mess it up a little

sincerely Lasse

 

[Scottmac]

Yes - it is IME a new tank syndrome. But the normal explanation to this have always been that a new tank have Si in it and because diatoms consume silica - they will grow till the silica is depleted and the problem is gone. People spend hundred of dollar in order to have a silica free water into the tank. With the new ICP technique - it easily shown that silica is not consumed down to zero in normal tanks - instead a concentration between 100 and 200 µg is common - if there is some in the RO water or not is not important comparing with how much the limestone rocks leak.

Interesting point about limestone rocks leaking silicate, suggesting the more rock you have in your tank the longer and more intensely diatoms will be present.

So What type of rock wouldn't leak silicate? I assume sandstone would be the very worst, would igneous rock be better?

Scott

 

[Texas Rick]

Soooo, let’s say it is silicate. How do you get rid of silicate so the diatoms will disappear?

 

[Lasse]

You will not get rid of Si in your seawater tank - it will be there in concentrations between 20 - 200 µg whatever you do (if you do not run BB with only plastic dekoration). A diatom bloom is not caused (normally) because of Si in the water - it is caused of low PO4 concentrations (very low) and therefore no competition of green algae. IMO

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Texas Rick]

You will not get rid of Si in your seawater tank - it will be there in concentrations between 20 - 200 µg whatever you do (if you do not run BB with only plastic dekoration). A diatom bloom is not caused (normally) because of Si in the water - it is caused of low PO4 concentrations (very low) and therefore no competition of green algae. IMO

Sincerely Lasse

All of that sounds jankie, there’s gotta be a way to get rid of silicate.

 

[SMSREEF]

All of that sounds jankie, there’s gotta be a way to get rid of silicate.

There is. You can use media to remove the silica and then get Dino’s afterward...

 

[Texas Rick]

There is. You can use media to remove the silica and then get Dino’s afterward...

In other words, leave the silica alone? Let the aquarium do it’s thing?

 

[Lasse]

Silicon (Si) and water

Silicon and water: reaction mechanisms, environmental impact and health effects

www.lenntech.com

Silicate - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/geochemj1966/6/2/6_2_83/_pdf

Silica is important for many organisms in your aquarium, corals, sponges ans many invertebrates like snails and hermits

Sincerely Lasse

 

[SMSREEF]

In other words, leave the silica alone? Let the aquarium do it’s thing?

That’s my suggestion. When I battled these good guys Diatoms and silica, I won... Or so I though, then Dino’s moved in to take their spot. That was not good because I went from a little ugly to ugly and killing my coral.

I think a lot of the problems we now have in tanks are due to starting with dead rock and bottled bacteria. We just don’t have the diverse biome to keep pests under control.

if we look at diatoms as a first step toward building the biome and then add to it with clean up crew rather than wiping the diatoms out, I think we would get further ahead sooner.

 

[Sallstrom]

Simply put, Diatoms will start grow on all new and clean substrate you put in a reef tank as long as there is light and availible nutrients. That is "normal" and not a problem. Corals also need light and nutrients
Most herbivores like to graze on diatoms, and the diatoms won't be visible with enough grazers around. Later on they will be outcompeted by more hardy algaes like coralline algae.
So it's about free space, grazers and competition. Not Si values.
Let the tank be -> time for grazers to graze and coralline algae to grow - > no visible diatoms.
Put in a new and clean rock in an old reef tank, you'll get the same "cycle".

If you look at the thread in my profile you'll see the 10000L reef tank Lasse wrote about. In that system we used silica sand as filter media