Mysterious illness or just flukes

KilianSP

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To start of, we go back 3 weeks. i had a week where i was pretty busy, so only had time for checking skimmer und dumping food in.
First day when i started to worry. My two cheatodon kleinii were sitting in a corner and breathing fast, i didn´t worry, because the are very agile and chased each other some time, so i thougth they were exhausted. the next morning i found both fish dead.
20230114_104242.jpg

I started to check the other fish. The blue powder tang also did breathed faster than normal, swim like he was drunk and had one cloudy eye with some kind of pimple on it.
Thats the first time i then dosed Prazipro, because i was thinking about flukes. the next day, also the powder blue tang was dead.
20230115_100107.jpg

No signs of ICH or velvet.
Then the moray started to act lethargig, thats the 3th day.
for the 4th day, the moray had alot of muscus coming of, sunken in belly, after work, he was also dead.
20230117_142200.jpg

My 8 Green chromis disappeared over one week, and looked like in the video. i think the shark ate them at night, didn´t find any bodys.

the 7 colombian sharks showed flashing and yawning, also did the bamboo shark.
The porcupine puffer then got both eyes cloudy with transparent pimbles on each, also he was lethargig and twitching sometime.
After 7 days the next dose prazipro went in the tank.
To this date, the porcupine was already back on track. the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark are still flashing and yawning and i feel like they are way more sensitive to light then they used to be.
From the second to the third dosis of prazipro, nothing changed really much. Porcupine is fine, colombian sharks and bamboo shark are still showing the same symptomes. But they eat the next day after dosing prazipro. At night he swims to the surface and shakes his head. he is only doing that at night, when the lights are on he is just laying around.



For this tank i would go with flukes, but now after 3 weeks, i got alot of infected mollys in my frag tank, where nothing was added in the time it is up and running. no fish, rocks or algae added. The frag tanks are not even in the same house as my main tank, so i must had transfered the parasites or bacteria by hand.
Dosed yesterday prazipro also, the fish started twitching. now after almost 24hrs, the still have the sime white pimbles or muscus on their body
20230205_212327.jpg
20230205_212305.jpg


i don´t know what i am dealing with, since the prazipro is only helping for a few days in the main tank, then it goes back to normal, so it is kinda working, but i don´t know if the fish just get calmed down by the prazipro.
i am willing to dose every medication which is needed, as long as it is safe for sharks and macroalgaes. i don´t care for the 4 corals i have and don´t have other inverts.
but for medication, i need the stuff whats in the medication, for example praziquantel, since i can´t get seachem medications here in germany and have to buys similar stuff.
Thank yoiu very much in advance.
 

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The fish behavior described point to flukes but can be velvet also and are the two that are rarely seen by naked eye until it has accelerated. Prazi will take some time to start working , generally 2nd to 3rd day.
To start of, we go back 3 weeks. i had a week where i was pretty busy, so only had time for checking skimmer und dumping food in.
First day when i started to worry. My two cheatodon kleinii were sitting in a corner and breathing fast, i didn´t worry, because the are very agile and chased each other some time, so i thougth they were exhausted. the next morning i found both fish dead.
20230114_104242.jpg

I started to check the other fish. The blue powder tang also did breathed faster than normal, swim like he was drunk and had one cloudy eye with some kind of pimple on it.
Thats the first time i then dosed Prazipro, because i was thinking about flukes. the next day, also the powder blue tang was dead.
20230115_100107.jpg

No signs of ICH or velvet.
Then the moray started to act lethargig, thats the 3th day.
for the 4th day, the moray had alot of muscus coming of, sunken in belly, after work, he was also dead.
20230117_142200.jpg

My 8 Green chromis disappeared over one week, and looked like in the video. i think the shark ate them at night, didn´t find any bodys.

the 7 colombian sharks showed flashing and yawning, also did the bamboo shark.
The porcupine puffer then got both eyes cloudy with transparent pimbles on each, also he was lethargig and twitching sometime.
After 7 days the next dose prazipro went in the tank.
To this date, the porcupine was already back on track. the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark are still flashing and yawning and i feel like they are way more sensitive to light then they used to be.
From the second to the third dosis of prazipro, nothing changed really much. Porcupine is fine, colombian sharks and bamboo shark are still showing the same symptomes. But they eat the next day after dosing prazipro. At night he swims to the surface and shakes his head. he is only doing that at night, when the lights are on he is just laying around.



For this tank i would go with flukes, but now after 3 weeks, i got alot of infected mollys in my frag tank, where nothing was added in the time it is up and running. no fish, rocks or algae added. The frag tanks are not even in the same house as my main tank, so i must had transfered the parasites or bacteria by hand.
Dosed yesterday prazipro also, the fish started twitching. now after almost 24hrs, the still have the sime white pimbles or muscus on their body
20230205_212327.jpg
20230205_212305.jpg


i don´t know what i am dealing with, since the prazipro is only helping for a few days in the main tank, then it goes back to normal, so it is kinda working, but i don´t know if the fish just get calmed down by the prazipro.
i am willing to dose every medication which is needed, as long as it is safe for sharks and macroalgaes. i don´t care for the 4 corals i have and don´t have other inverts.
but for medication, i need the stuff whats in the medication, for example praziquantel, since i can´t get seachem medications here in germany and have to buys similar stuff.
Thank yoiu very much in advance.

The symptoms you mention sounds like flukes but both flukes and velvet are often not seen with the naked eye until it has accelarated. Prazi starts working day 2 or 3 . The substrate you have is too course for sharks and should be finer and at least 3"
 
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KilianSP

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The substrate you have is too course for sharks and should be finer and at least 3"
i changed the substrate, it is now 0,5-1mm grain size, was 2-3mm before. i even rounded the corners of the tank now.

The symptoms you mention sounds like flukes but both flukes and velvet
i had similar symptomes half a year ago in the main tank, and Jay said it could be flukes, and sharks can´t get ich or velvet. And if it would be ICH or Velvet, i din´t medicated for that, so i guess it is none of them, or the fish should be dead after 3 weeks.
i really don´t know what it is. i even took half a year ago 3 scrape samples of each fish, 2 from the body and one from the gills, i found no flukes. i microscoped 14hr noinstop. but i can´t tell if there where bacterias since my magnification from the microscope isn´t stron enough, it goes up to 800X
 
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KilianSP

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The fish behavior described point to flukes but can be velvet also and are the two that are rarely seen by naked eye until it has accelerated. Prazi will take some time to start working , generally 2nd to 3rd day.

The symptoms you mention sounds like flukes but both flukes and velvet are often not seen with the naked eye until it has accelarated. Prazi starts working day 2 or 3 . The substrate you have is too course for sharks and should be finer and at least 3"
But why are often the eyes the first point where symptomes appear? gets cloudy and looks like muscus with a pimble on it? i thought it is a fluke and the eye tries to heal, so it is releasing muscus.
 

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To start of, we go back 3 weeks. i had a week where i was pretty busy, so only had time for checking skimmer und dumping food in.
First day when i started to worry. My two cheatodon kleinii were sitting in a corner and breathing fast, i didn´t worry, because the are very agile and chased each other some time, so i thougth they were exhausted. the next morning i found both fish dead.
20230114_104242.jpg

I started to check the other fish. The blue powder tang also did breathed faster than normal, swim like he was drunk and had one cloudy eye with some kind of pimple on it.
Thats the first time i then dosed Prazipro, because i was thinking about flukes. the next day, also the powder blue tang was dead.
20230115_100107.jpg

No signs of ICH or velvet.
Then the moray started to act lethargig, thats the 3th day.
for the 4th day, the moray had alot of muscus coming of, sunken in belly, after work, he was also dead.
20230117_142200.jpg

My 8 Green chromis disappeared over one week, and looked like in the video. i think the shark ate them at night, didn´t find any bodys.

the 7 colombian sharks showed flashing and yawning, also did the bamboo shark.
The porcupine puffer then got both eyes cloudy with transparent pimbles on each, also he was lethargig and twitching sometime.
After 7 days the next dose prazipro went in the tank.
To this date, the porcupine was already back on track. the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark are still flashing and yawning and i feel like they are way more sensitive to light then they used to be.
From the second to the third dosis of prazipro, nothing changed really much. Porcupine is fine, colombian sharks and bamboo shark are still showing the same symptomes. But they eat the next day after dosing prazipro. At night he swims to the surface and shakes his head. he is only doing that at night, when the lights are on he is just laying around.



For this tank i would go with flukes, but now after 3 weeks, i got alot of infected mollys in my frag tank, where nothing was added in the time it is up and running. no fish, rocks or algae added. The frag tanks are not even in the same house as my main tank, so i must had transfered the parasites or bacteria by hand.
Dosed yesterday prazipro also, the fish started twitching. now after almost 24hrs, the still have the sime white pimbles or muscus on their body
20230205_212327.jpg
20230205_212305.jpg


i don´t know what i am dealing with, since the prazipro is only helping for a few days in the main tank, then it goes back to normal, so it is kinda working, but i don´t know if the fish just get calmed down by the prazipro.
i am willing to dose every medication which is needed, as long as it is safe for sharks and macroalgaes. i don´t care for the 4 corals i have and don´t have other inverts.
but for medication, i need the stuff whats in the medication, for example praziquantel, since i can´t get seachem medications here in germany and have to buys similar stuff.
Thank yoiu very much in advance.

I was helping you with the mollies, I didn’t realize that you had already lost the butterflies and tang.
I don’t think you can rule out Amyloodinium/velvet in this case - the rapid breathing and fish loss all go with that, but most importantly, the shark is still alive - they are resistant to velvet. People think fish with marine velvet show white spots, but that is freshwater velvet, a different species. With marine velvet, rapid breathing, not eating and death are often all you see.
Jay
 
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KilianSP

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I was helping you with the mollies, I didn’t realize that you had already lost the butterflies and tang.
I meant my first Post with my bamboo shark only half a year ago there where the same symptoms for the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark. You guessed for flukes, but my prazi didn't worked well and so on. Long time ago.
But now it is the same symptoms.
But if it is velvet, what can i do about it? Copper won't work for the shaek and colombian sharks.
And why is the porcupine happy again and healthy, wouldn't velvet have killed him, since i didn't/can't treat the tank?

Mollys looking sligthly better now and are more activ and back woth color. For the bamboo shark, was very hungry even for dosing prazi yesterday. Redosed prazipro 1/5 of the dosage of yesterday, since i think the bacterias are eating up the prazi pretty quick by now.
 

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I meant my first Post with my bamboo shark only half a year ago there where the same symptoms for the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark. You guessed for flukes, but my prazi didn't worked well and so on. Long time ago.
But now it is the same symptoms.
But if it is velvet, what can i do about it? Copper won't work for the shaek and colombian sharks.
And why is the porcupine happy again and healthy, wouldn't velvet have killed him, since i didn't/can't treat the tank?

Mollys looking sligthly better now and are more activ and back woth color. For the bamboo shark, was very hungry even for dosing prazi yesterday. Redosed prazipro 1/5 of the dosage of yesterday, since i think the bacterias are eating up the prazi pretty quick by now.
For velvet, I have luck with Ruby Rally pro but it takes longer to work and treat but would be safe for sharks.
 

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I meant my first Post with my bamboo shark only half a year ago there where the same symptoms for the colombian sharks and the bamboo shark. You guessed for flukes, but my prazi didn't worked well and so on. Long time ago.
But now it is the same symptoms.
But if it is velvet, what can i do about it? Copper won't work for the shaek and colombian sharks.
And why is the porcupine happy again and healthy, wouldn't velvet have killed him, since i didn't/can't treat the tank?

Mollys looking sligthly better now and are more activ and back woth color. For the bamboo shark, was very hungry even for dosing prazi yesterday. Redosed prazipro 1/5 of the dosage of yesterday, since i think the bacterias are eating up the prazi pretty quick by now.
I see in your other post that you have access to a microscope - you should check the gills of a freshly dead fish. Flukes will show as moving worms, velvet will be black tiny dots and bacterial gill disease will show eroded gill tissue. If the gill filaments are pale pink or white, that indicates anemia. You may not be able to tell what it is, but you can often rule out some issues.

IMO - I would sacrifice a molly to get a fresh sample, but I understand people don't like to do that.


Jay
 
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KilianSP

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For velvet, I have luck with Ruby Rally pro but it takes longer to work and treat but would be safe for sharks.
I can get some ruby Rally pro
Can i use it in the Display tank or use it for the shark as a bath?
I wanted to make 5 treatments with prazipro, after that and still symptoms i switch to Rally pro
 
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I see in your other post that you have access to a microscope - you should check the gills of a freshly dead fish. Flukes will show as moving worms, velvet will be black tiny dots and bacterial gill disease will show eroded gill tissue. If the gill filaments are pale pink or white, that indicates anemia. You may not be able to tell what it is, but you can often rule out some issues.

IMO - I would sacrifice a molly to get a fresh sample, but I understand people don't like to do that.


Jay
I have the moray still in my freezer, could i use it to take Samples?
I would be ok to sacrifice a molly if it gets worse, but how big would be the chances that the mollys have the same disease as the shark, since they are different tanks?
 

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I can get some ruby Rally pro
Can i use it in the Display tank or use it for the shark as a bath?
I wanted to make 5 treatments with prazipro, after that and still symptoms i switch to Rally pro
It can be used in display - I recommend dose at 80%. Preferably I prefer in quarantine but not feasible for a shark unless you have a 125g laying around :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
 
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It can be used in display - I recommend dose at 80%. Preferably I prefer in quarantine but not feasible for a shark unless you have a 125g laying around :beaming-face-with-smiling-eyes:
As i am treating all my tanks right know, which are all over 110gal, there would be no use the take him to another tank.
And i prefer to treat the whole Tank, just to make sure all parasites or others are killed.
 

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As i am treating all my tanks right know, which are all over 110gal, there would be no use the take him to another tank.
And i prefer to treat the whole Tank, just to make sure all parasites or others are killed.
Sometimes not feasible but Ruby Pro is safe
Increase oxygen during treatment to be safe
 
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Sometimes not feasible but Ruby Pro is safe
Increase oxygen during treatment to be safe
I am going to do that, always letting the skimmer run without the cup
Maybe some Infos if ruby pro is safe for the colombian sharks, since the are catfish?
 

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I am going to do that, always letting the skimmer run without the cup
Maybe some Infos if ruby pro is safe for the colombian sharks, since the are catfish?
Ruby is acriflavine and works with delicate species and inverts. The other Med you can use is Seachem neoplex which is a broad spectrum antibiotic for most external infections with little effect on the biological system and also deemed safe for inverts
 
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Ruby is acriflavine and works with delicate species and inverts. The other Med you can use is Seachem neoplex which is a broad spectrum antibiotic for most external infections with little effect on the biological system and also deemed safe for inverts
Can't get any of the seachem medications here in germany.
Do you now what stuff is in neoplex so i can look for alternatives, cheers
 

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Can't get any of the seachem medications here in germany.
Do you now what stuff is in neoplex so i can look for alternatives, cheers
Aquasonic formalin
 
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Aquasonic formalin
Can i use ruby reef rally instead of the ruby rall pro?
Seems to be the same except the Pro is higher concentrated.
Can oly get my hands fast on the reef rally for the Pro i have to wait 1 month atleast.
Thanks in advance
 

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I have the moray still in my freezer, could i use it to take Samples?
I would be ok to sacrifice a molly if it gets worse, but how big would be the chances that the mollys have the same disease as the shark, since they are different tanks?
Sorry, I thought you meant that your three tanks were on the same water system. If they are separate, then that idea won't work.

No - once frozen the moray would be useless to take samples from.

Jay
 
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KilianSP

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Sorry, I thought you meant that your three tanks were on the same water system. If they are separate, then that idea won't work.

No - once frozen the moray would be useless to take samples from.

Jay
Yeah, there are 3 Tanks, all in different locations on my property.
But the symptomes are kinda like the same.
Going to get reef rally as mentioned above and try it after the 5th dose of prazipro if it is not getting any better.
But can a shark just don't can get velvet, or does he can get it, but can heal himself without medication?
 

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