Mystery Lesion on Clown

[Newstead]

Try again for the pic

 

[Humblefish]

I think I would move her into a QT and dose the water directly with antibiotics.

When you have time read thru this, and see if you can match the appropriate antibiotic to the symptoms you are seeing on the fish: http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/AquariumMedication2.html

Furan/Kanaplex/metro may not be the best combo for this particular situation.

 

[cope413]

If it was bacterial, these meds would knock it down. If they aren't, it's A) not bacterial, B) it's resistant to those meds, or C) it's a different type of bacteria than those meds are meant for.

That picture looks VERY much like viral lymphocystis (google image search clownfish lymphocystis).

If so, the meds are only going to be a bad thing that add unnecessary stress to an already stressed fish.

If the fish is eating and acting normally, I would highly recommend not treating with more antibiotics.

 

[Humblefish]

More recent pics might help settle this. The pics I've seen of this fish look nothing like Lymphocystis, as the "bubbles" are almost translucent. Lympho is more of a white or beige colored cauliflower-like growth.

Below is a pair of clowns with Lympho for comparison purposes.

 

[SandJ]

I have to agree that is does not look like Lymphocystis, unfortunately

Looks exactly like my Maroon did. Bubbles would appear, deflate (but the transparent layer was still there-just looked like a deflated balloon), and reappear with more bubbles next time.

I'm sorry your clown is experiencing this, but hopefully documenting our experienced can help people (and fish!) in the future.

 

[cope413]

I'm curious what bacteria you think this is and why it hasn't responded to any treatment thus far.

 

[SandJ]

I'm curious what bacteria you think this is and why it hasn't responded to any treatment thus far.

Not the OP or an expert (and hopefully they will chime) but with my clown I believe the bubbles were caused by a tumor (see thread Gas Bubble Disease in Maroon Clown")

 

[Humblefish]

I'm curious what bacteria you think this is and why it hasn't responded to any treatment thus far.

Three reasons:

1. To my knowledge, the OP has only attempted antibiotic laced food (Dr. G's) and while that is a "reef safe" option, it is not the optimal way to deliver antibiotics to a sick fish. Unless the infection is internal. Dosing antibiotics directly into the water column forces it to be absorbed into the fish's skin, and you also don't have to worry about whether or not the fish is actually eating enough of the food in order to be effective.
2. It can be exceedingly difficult to match the "perfect" antibiotic to the correct strain of bacterium you are treating for. Some antibiotics such as kanamycin and nitrofurazone have a wide range of effect, but if you were to take a skin scrape and identify the strain under a scope, you can almost always find a more specific antibiotic to use.
3. Antibiotics are notoriously slow acting in fish. I would rather deal with velvet than a fish with a gram negative bacterial infection. It can sometimes take up to 10 days just to see improvement when treating IME.

Now, I'm not 100% saying this is a bacterial infection. But IMHO, antibiotics haven't been given a fair shot to remedy this situation primarily because of #1 above.

 

[Newstead]

Thanks so much for all the suggestions. I did treat her in a hospital tank, but only with 5 days of Maracyn2, cleared with carbon, water change and poly-filter, then only 2 days of Furan2 when I stopped and moved her and her mate back to the DT as they had quit eating.
The excellent article from Aquarium Products does mention clear blisters which can be followed by sores under Furan2. Hers was the reverse, a sore followed by blisters, but I think it may be worth another hospital tank try of Furan2 for ten days - the med laced food she is on has Kanamycin and metronidazole, not Furan2.

 

[Newstead]

Of course, if it an ulcerating tumor as SandJ's fish had, I realize nothing is going to actually heal that, but worth another try, right? I will just need to prep some filter media for the ht, as I used my bag of ceramic media I keep in the back of our biocube for emergencies in the sump of our now cycling 75 gallon rimless. Should have replaced it right away to have ready.

 

[Humblefish]

Personally, I would treat with Furan-2/Kanaplex/metro combo for 10 days. IME; if an infection doesn't respond to that, there's not much else you can do.

 

[Newstead]

Thanks, Humblefish - I am setting up hospital tank now in fact, but will wait til I get the Metro to add. I have the Furan2 and the Kanaplex. Wish us luck - will uodate!

 

[Newstead]

Moved Ilsa and Rick to the 10 gallon hospital tank today after running it empty for a couple of days to match salinity, pH and temp. I had hoped to give them a couple of days to settle in before starting the meds combo, but in chasing Ilsa around the biocube to catch her, she must have scraped the lump/bubbles as the area was blood colored and only 1 bubble was intact, so I fed them and added the Kanaplex/Furan2/Metroplex. After a bit of nervousness, they seem to have settled in behind the PVC elbows. I am running just a heater, an Aquaclear 70 with a sponge treated with Stability and floss, and an air hose at the opposite end for extra oxygen exchange due to all the meds. Have ordered an ammonia badge which should arrive tomorrow.

Wish them luck - the next 10 days will be nervewracking!

Also, can I continue soaking their food in Selcon alternating with Vita-chem while they are being medicated?

 

[melypr1985]

Moved Ilsa and Rick to the 10 gallon hospital tank today after running it empty for a couple of days to match salinity, pH and temp. I had hoped to give them a couple of days to settle in before starting the meds combo, but in chasing Ilsa around the biocube to catch her, she must have scraped the lump/bubbles as the area was blood colored and only 1 bubble was intact, so I fed them and added the Kanaplex/Furan2/Metroplex. After a bit of nervousness, they seem to have settled in behind the PVC elbows. I am running just a heater, an Aquaclear 70 with a sponge treated with Stability and floss, and an air hose at the opposite end for extra oxygen exchange due to all the meds. Have ordered an ammonia badge which should arrive tomorrow.

Wish them luck - the next 10 days will be nervewracking!

Also, can I continue soaking their food in Selcon alternating with Vita-chem while they are being medicated?

Since your dosing the QT with the meds then you can certainly add vitamins to their food. In fact, it's a great idea to do so.

 

[Newstead]

I have what is probably a stupid question. Have reread med directions and wanted to check to make sure I do it right. After 48 hours you are to do a 50% water change and dose again. So do I do a full dose of each after the water change or a half dose to match the 50% of water I removed?

Sorry for all the questions.

 

[Humblefish]

I have what is probably a stupid question. Have reread med directions and wanted to check to make sure I do it right. After 48 hours you are to do a 50% water change and dose again. So do I do a full dose of each after the water change or a half dose to match the 50% of water I removed?

Full dose. Most antibiotics dissipate in the water after 24 hrs. The WC is to remove some of the residuals and to keep water quality good.

Which product is saying to change 50%? Most say to only change 25% of the aquarium water.

 

[Newstead]

You are right. The Furan2 pkg says 25%, don't know where I got 50% for the others. Geesh.

 

[Newstead]

You are right. The Furan2 pkg says 25%, don't know where I got 50% for the others. Geesh.

Well I am not completely insane - found the 50% water change in the American Aquatics Product site under the Furan2 pkg - must be a typo, since the package itself says 25% . Thanks for the correct info Humblefish!

 

[Newstead]

Today is day 10 for the Furan2/Kanaplex/Metroplex treatment in the hospital tank, 25% water changes every other day and remedicating all. Good news is that both clowns have continued to eat pellets and a few mysis throughout the triple treatment. Bad is that the lump and bubbles are still present on Ilsa, though the bubbles are smaller and the lump is lighter colored.
Opinions on whether I should continue longer with the triple meds, try cupramine in case it is a parasite embedded or give up, return them to the display and let her live whatever time she has left in peace and comfort? They do not seem stressed at all yet - I think adding 2 pvc elbows really helped them this time.
The pic from today doesn't show the bubbles as they are smaller but you can see the lump has lightened but still as large.

 

[Humblefish]

This is what I would do in your shoes right now:

1. Give the fish a formalin bath and then move to a new sterile QT afterwards. Just in case this is brook or some other lingering "surface parasite". Acriflavine might work in this situation as well and is less toxic; however nothing knocks off surface parasites (velvet, brook) as effectively as formalin. It can usually eradicate brook after just one bath.
2. Once in the "new" QT (necessary to prevent reinfection), continue to treat with the triple meds and observe for at least a few more days. Report back.