Need Advice On Filters and Sunps

Irene · Dec 3, 2017

I am a new reef aquarist; began setting up my 55 gallon tank with live sand and live rock in February and added fish, a starfish, shrimp, and corals over time, starting in April. The good news is that almost all of the sea life except for a couple of coral frags is thriving and my nitrates are zero.
But keeping this tank is frustrating and stressful.
My sea clone skimmer regularly stops skimming and I have to go thru laborious and stressful process of cleaning and adjusting it. I did that again today and it’s still not skimming. I can’t control algae and ‘junk’ settling everywhere, , despite keeping lights on a controlled schedule , performing regular water changes, and trying not to overfeed. I worry I am going to start losing my critters if this keeps up.
In addition to the fickle skimmer, I am running both a bio wheel and cansister filter. My reef store staff say the canister is no good for salt water, but I’ve also heard biowheels aren’t that great either. I don’t have a pre drilled tank but could consider a hang on back system.
I would appreciate any simple, straightforward tips on how to achieve a crystal clear, algae free tank, specifically which equipment. I would love an all in one system to reduce clutter if possible.

Ashish Patel · Dec 3, 2017

Not sure you budget but I think you need to consider as you mentioned improving your filter. Skimmer will be more effective in the sump then it would be hanging and surface skimming is a filter technique in itself. building a overflow, sump, and adding the bare minimum (protein skimmer and return), can cost you $300-$400 easily.

I have 2 tanks. Below are the sumps of each. The first one is over 10 years old. I have upgraded the skimmer only to Reef octopus

Ashish Patel · Dec 3, 2017

Just to give you some insight - Your sump does not need to be fancy..My 2 sumps do pretty much the same thing as you can see. filtersocks (used as needed), skimmer, and LR (cryptic zone). The only difference is I have a refugium now. My old sump cost me a used skimmer $100 and mag drive $80 and I converted my first 29 gallon into the sump. Overflow box is another consideration Id recommended drilled on over a syphoned but on a established tank might be better to just go with siphon until you upgrade.

Definately, plan on spending money that new hobbyist want to spend on livestock on the sump and skimmer first. Think of it as an investment - Better setup now and later you'll be able to grow and sell me frags later.

Hope this helps. take care

Irene · Dec 3, 2017

Irene said:
I am a new reef aquarist; began setting up my 55 gallon tank with live sand and live rock in February and added fish, a starfish, shrimp, and corals over time, starting in April. The good news is that almost all of the sea life except for a couple of coral frags is thriving and my nitrates are zero.
But keeping this tank is frustrating and stressful.
My sea clone skimmer regularly stops skimming and I have to go thru laborious and stressful process of cleaning and adjusting it. I did that again today and it’s still not skimming. I can’t control algae and ‘junk’ settling everywhere, , despite keeping lights on a controlled schedule , performing regular water changes, and trying not to overfeed. I worry I am going to start losing my critters if this keeps up.
In addition to the fickle skimmer, I am running both a bio wheel and cansister filter. My reef store staff say the canister is no good for salt water, but I’ve also heard biowheels aren’t that great either. I don’t have a pre drilled tank but could consider a hang on back system.
I would appreciate any simple, straightforward tips on how to achieve a crystal clear, algae free tank, specifically which equipment. I would love an all in one system to reduce clutter if possible.

Ashish Patel said:
Just to give you some insight - Your sump does not need to be fancy..My 2 sumps do pretty much the same thing as you can see. filtersocks (used as needed), skimmer, and LR (cryptic zone). The only difference is I have a refugium now. My old sump cost me a used skimmer $100 and mag drive $80 and I converted my first 29 gallon into the sump. Overflow box is another consideration Id recommended drilled on over a syphoned but on a established tank might be better to just go with siphon until you upgrade.

Definately, plan on spending money that new hobbyist want to spend on livestock on the sump and skimmer first. Think of it as an investment - Better setup now and later you'll be able to grow and sell me frags later. Hope this helps. take care

thanks, this is still way above my head. I don’t even understand what everything is and what it does and where I’d put it. I just don’t have space for a separate tank set up underneath and don’t know how it would be connected as I have a very small opening on the shelf where the aquarium sits. I think I’ll just take photos to my reef store and try to figure out what I can get away with.

ChrisRD · Dec 4, 2017

I prefer having a sump too...but if you don't want to tackle the whole sump thing...I would consider upgrading to a decent hang-on skimmer and losing the canister filter. The biowheel filter isn't needed either, but a hang-on power filter can be useful for running carbon and removing detritus from systems that don't have a sump.

With regard to hang-on power filters on a sumpless setup, I prefer to either rinse the cartridges every few days or run without them and just put them in periodically after blowing the rockwork off with a turkey baster or powerhead...and then pulling them (or cleaning them) after a day or so (once water is clear again). The other option is to just run the filter periodically for a few days...like once a month (after the rock "storming" events) with some carbon and then pulling it off again. Whatever method works for you...I don't think it matters much as long as you don't let detritus build-up in the filter for more than a few days at a time.

Good skimmers tend to be pricey (even hang-ons)...I've had good luck with this one on a tank about your size for example and it has some surface skimming ability:
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-classic-90-hang-on-back-protein-skimmer.html

There may be cheaper options that are decent...but I haven't used many other hang-on skimmers in recent years to make other recommendations.

HTH

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Thank you, I'm just a little confused, are you saying a decent hang-on skimmer replaces a filter? Or is it a filter/skimmer unit? Is there such thing as a filer/skimmer/refugium unit (I understand the refugium keeps the algae out of your tank?) Sorry for all the questions but still trying to grasp the terminology and options. Skimmer still not working today : \

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Thanks. I am a little confused, is the hang-on skimmer also a filter that would replace the canister and biowheel? The biowheel seems like a hang-on filter with rinsable cartridges but I think you are describing something else? Is there a good hang-on filter/refugium that anyone recommends? Still trying to grasp the terminology. Current skimmer still not working today. That thing is going to be the death of me and maybe my fish if I can't figure this out soon : /

lion king · Dec 4, 2017

You can run top notch tanks with hang on equipment. The equipment you are using is not the equipment I would choose. At the very least I would replace the skimmer, and Eshopps hob psc75 is a top notch skimmer. You could replace the filter and get rid of the canister all together, the Seachem tidal is the best ready to use hob filter on the market now. You could also customize the hob filter you have now, the problem with the hob filter is flow; you could customize the flow in the filter you have now. You could use filter media such as chemipure and purigen in the filter. Make sure you have plenty of live rock in the display with adequate flow. A great addition could also be an algae reactor, something like this: https://www.marinedepot.com/AquaMaxx_Algae_Reactor_Package_-AquaMaxx-UJ5355-FIFRAS-vi.html
I have a 90g with the equipment I recommended and it runs just as well as my 90, 125, and 210 with sumps.

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Very encouraging, thanks!

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Is there any benefit in buying a filter larger than recommended, i.e. one recommended for 75 gallon if your tank is only 55?

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Also, if you install an algae reactor, does the algae in your tank just start disappearing naturally?

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Is an algae reactor the same thing as a refugium?

ChrisRD · Dec 4, 2017

The unit I linked is just a protein skimmer. I might be the one who is confused...are you running a hang-on power filter that has biowheels in it, or are you using one of those biowheel units that has the canister filter discharging through/over it? I was assuming the former.

Assuming you already have the hang-on power filter (with biowheels)...the biowheels are not necessary, but if you don't want to remove them, I don't see them doing any harm (as long as they don't stick/stop rotating and start collecting detritus).

If you have a biowheel unit that is basically an outlet for your canister filter (i.e. you don't have a hang-on power filter)...I would recommend ditching that setup (better for a freshwater application) and getting a small hang-on power filter to use periodically for detritus cleanup (i.e. blowing off rockwork with baster/powerhead) and activated carbon. In a sumpless setup it's tough to get detritus out without one IMO.

IMO you don't need anything more than periodic mechanical filtration in a reef tank (I think full time is fine too as long as it's frequently cleaned). The skimmer + live rock/sand + good circulation will provide your basic filtration.

Refugiums can be useful but can be hard to implement at a useful scale with a hang-on setup IMO. The trick to managing algae is to manage nutrient import/export and having some critters that eat whatever small amount of algae survives in your system. The fuge is just one possible tool for managing export...i.e. not necessarily a requirement. If you're using clean source water (preferably RO/DI), have good feeding habits (i.e. smaller/more frequent feedings tend to be better than overloading the system with fewer/larger feedings...tends to result in less food going uneaten by the fish), perform regular substrate/rock cleaning to get detritus out, have plenty of flow/circulation, a decent skimmer and some cleanup critters, most algae will be manageable (there are some pest varieties that can be tough to deal with).

HTH

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

I have a Marineland biowheel 350 hob, a Fluval canister, and a Seaclone skimmer. I thought that having all this would multiply cleaning capacity and leave my tank sparkling but not the case. I am past the regrets about buying all this stuff, at this point I will buy anything to get the clear healthy tank that I envision.

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Irene said:
I have a Marineland biowheel 350 hob, a Fluval canister, and a Seaclone skimmer. I thought that having all this would multiply cleaning capacity and leave my tank sparkling but not the case. I am past the regrets about buying all this stuff, at this point I will buy anything to get the clear healthy tank that I envision.

I add that it's clear once all the dust settles, but lots of algae and detritus everywhere, and the skimmer is always going on the fritz lately.

ChrisRD · Dec 4, 2017

...with regard to the algae reactor vs. the refugium...similar concepts, just different implementation. They're both basically a nutrient export tool. Useful, but you still need to balance import/export and have some cleanup critters to manage algae.

lion king · Dec 4, 2017

Irene said:
Also, if you install an algae reactor, does the algae in your tank just start disappearing naturally?

You will likely have to clean what's already there, scrubbing rocks and such. Have a cuc crew with various snails and maybe even an urchin to munch down what's left. What the algae reactor will do is eat up the phosphates and nitrates that have been feeding the algae in the tank.

Going up in filter sizes will allow a bit more insurance for stocking and some additional room for media and such. Using filters recommended for a 75g on a 55g is a good choice.

Irene · Dec 4, 2017

Irene said:
I add that it's clear once all the dust settles, but lots of algae and detritus everywhere, and the skimmer is always going on the fritz lately.

I hesitated on spending a lot of money on a high end skimmer but maybe that was a mistake. Appreciate all the advice.

ChrisRD · Dec 4, 2017

That hang-on filter is fine...I would just remove the canister filter. Just rinse the cartridges frequently...or remove them until you need them periodically.

Have you tried using a turkey baster or powerhead to blow off your rockwork occasionally? If not, you'll be surprised at how much comes off of the rocks when you do.

What are you using for source water for top-off and new saltwater?