Need help - Big RTN episode on my SPS tank.

rimlessreefer954

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your Parameters seem pretty good. Sometimes doing a lot of changes to a reef tank in a short period can cause parameters to shift without you even knowing. Balance nutrients along with balanced trace elements is key. the less you do the better sometimes. . Im also experienced with using vibrant as well. remember vibrant has vinegar in it which is a carbon doser. over dosing vibrant can cause your nutrients to bottom out which is probably the cause of your Dinos at one stage. when using vibrant dose the recommended dose once a week. allow it to work over time so you won't cause fluctuations with nutrients. the lighting should be fine. you can cause more harm changing it at this point than helping. hope this helps and good luck with your tank.
 
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Treefer32

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Totally agree,

When I saw that you are going to dose nitrate I was going to post but this post sums up what I was going to say.
This explains what I experienced first hand with Styla pora. I had low nitrates, but phosphates were good, my algae turf scrubber had slowed way down in producing GHA. So, I dosed Brightwell Aquatics Nitrates. Just enough to raise nitrates by 5-10 at the most, a very small amount, following the label instructions closely. 2 days later, my stylapora went through a slow collapse. Took about 2 weeks for it to completely die off. I took two -3 frags of healthy parts and even the frags died off. The strange thing is that I had other SPS and other Stylapora, but it was the largest colony - 10 inches in diameter that died slowly.

Sounds like dosing nitrates may have been the cause for me as well.
 
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JCOLE

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Finally! I received my ICP results and I finally have something to look at. My Tin and Silicon are off the charts in my RODI water. I use this water for my top off daily and for mixing my saltwater. I am going to order a new batch of RODI filters ASAP. On my DT tank there are traces of Tin but not as sky high as my RODI. Also, my Silicon is a lot lower than my RODI Silicon results and actually -34.09 lower than ATI recommends. Weird, you would think at these levels that they would be much higher in my display tank.

I am using the 44 Gallon Brute trashcans as my Saltwater and RODI reservoirs. Do you think they could be leaching these into the water?

I attached all of my ICP results. Two of them are from my ICP on 03/18/2020 and the other two are from yesterday. I didn't have any Tin in my DT and RODI in March when things were doing well. MY Potassium is really high and my Iodine is very low as well on this recent ICP.

Let me know what you think between the two dates. I feel like I at least have a game plan.

1. Change out RODI filters immediately. Drain all old water and clean both RODI and Saltwater containers. Fill up reservoirs with new water and do 3x20% water changes immediately.

2. Stop Acropower for at least a month as this could be leading to high levels of Potassium.

3. Dose Iodine daily to get Iodine levels back up to where they should be.

Run another ICP test in a month to see where levels are at.

Thanks everyone for the feedback during this. I feel relieved that at least there is something that I can point to and try to fix to make an improvement.

Please let me know if you see anything I should add to my plan or change to improve it.
 

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ryshark

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Finally! I received my ICP results and I finally have something to look at. My Tin and Silicon are off the charts in my RODI water. I use this water for my top off daily and for mixing my saltwater. I am going to order a new batch of RODI filters ASAP. On my DT tank there are traces of Tin but not as sky high as my RODI. Also, my Silicon is a lot lower than my RODI Silicon results and actually -34.09 lower than ATI recommends. Weird, you would think at these levels that they would be much higher in my display tank.

I am using the 44 Gallon Brute trashcans as my Saltwater and RODI reservoirs. Do you think they could be leaching these into the water?

I attached all of my ICP results. Two of them are from my ICP on 03/18/2020 and the other two are from yesterday. I didn't have any Tin in my DT and RODI in March when things were doing well. MY Potassium is really high and my Iodine is very low as well on this recent ICP.

Let me know what you think between the two dates. I feel like I at least have a game plan.

1. Change out RODI filters immediately. Drain all old water and clean both RODI and Saltwater containers. Fill up reservoirs with new water and do 3x20% water changes immediately.

2. Stop Acropower for at least a month as this could be leading to high levels of Potassium.

3. Dose Iodine daily to get Iodine levels back up to where they should be.

Run another ICP test in a month to see where levels are at.

Thanks everyone for the feedback during this. I feel relieved that at least there is something that I can point to and try to fix to make an improvement.

Please let me know if you see anything I should add to my plan or change to improve it.
Wow that Tin is crazy high. I'd take a look inside the brute to make sure nothing fell in. In regards to the Iodine, I've heard Mike Paletta say in a video that low Iodine can cause Tissue Necrosis. I was having issues keeping acros alive in my current tank, I ended up increasing the salinity (your salinity is obviously perfect) because I found out it was low, which also increased my trace elements. Plus my ICP showed low Iodine and in addition to increasing my salinity to match a different brand of calibration solution, I also started dosing Iodine. Since doing those 2-things, I've been good.
You have a lot going on though, in the last couple months.
-Several types of algae removal additives
-Nutrients bottoming out
-Crazy high Tin
-Low Iodine
-Changed lights, even though it was an upgrade it was another change
 
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ryshark

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I forgot to ask, how long did ATI take to email you the results? My last Triton ICP results came back extremely fast, but I'd like to try ATI next time since they also measure Salinity specifically.
 
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BCSreef

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I forgot to ask, how long did ATI take to email you the results? My last Triton ICP results came back extremely fast, but I'd like to try ATI next time since they also measure Salinity specifically.
Not Josh, but the results I got today from ATI were from samples shipped shipped on 12/28. Slower than usual, likely due to the holidays. Usually 8-10 days.
 
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JCOLE

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Wow that Tin is crazy high. I'd take a look inside the brute to make sure nothing fell in. In regards to the Iodine, I've heard Mike Paletta say in a video that low Iodine can cause Tissue Necrosis. I was having issues keeping acros alive in my current tank, I ended up increasing the salinity (your salinity is obviously perfect) because I found out it was low, which also increased my trace elements. Plus my ICP showed low Iodine and in addition to increasing my salinity to match a different brand of calibration solution, I also started dosing Iodine. Since doing those 2-things, I've been good.
You have a lot going on though, in the last couple months.
-Several types of algae removal additives
-Nutrients bottoming out
-Crazy high Tin
-Low Iodine
-Changed lights, even though it was an upgrade it was another change

Yes created the perfect storm. I am going to look in the RODI reservoir to make sure nothing is in it. I am going to dose Iodine to try and restore normal levels soon. Change out the RODI membranes and filters and do a couple of water changes.

Other than that just leave the system alone and hope nothing else continues to die off.
 
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JCOLE

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I forgot to ask, how long did ATI take to email you the results? My last Triton ICP results came back extremely fast, but I'd like to try ATI next time since they also measure Salinity specifically.

Just like Bob. I sent mine off on 12/30 and just received the results this morning at 8am.

When I sent mine out in March of last year I received results back in a couple of days. They have a testing facility here in California so it doesn't take long to test.

I believe this time was slow due to the Holidays as well.
 
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jda

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Seeing lots of high-tin ICP tests. Most of the time, it is in the salt. What salt is everybody using that has these levels? Of course, this sucks if it is in the RODI. Tube from Home Depot/Lowes/whatever has been linked anecdotally - apparently the stuff with the white cords in it, IIRC?

Please read up on one of DR. RHFs articles on Iodine before you dose. What got tested for might not be of any consequence to a reef tank. Iodate is more important, IIRC, but I have not read these in a while. As any halide, including bleach, over dosing can be a problem. You might need to dose... I am not saying that, just compare apples to apples and dose the right thing. In the past, people have bought iodine of some sort or Lugols and dosed and dosed and dosed and their tests never moved because their test kit was looking at a different kind than they were adding.
 

saf1

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This explains what I experienced first hand with Styla pora. I had low nitrates, but phosphates were good, my algae turf scrubber had slowed way down in producing GHA. So, I dosed Brightwell Aquatics Nitrates. Just enough to raise nitrates by 5-10 at the most, a very small amount, following the label instructions closely. 2 days later, my stylapora went through a slow collapse. Took about 2 weeks for it to completely die off. I took two -3 frags of healthy parts and even the frags died off. The strange thing is that I had other SPS and other Stylapora, but it was the largest colony - 10 inches in diameter that died slowly.

Sounds like dosing nitrates may have been the cause for me as well.

Interesting. I had a similar experience with a Purple Stylophora. I switched salts a while back to Tropic Marin Bio Actif. I wasn't paying attention nor did I connect the dots but as I started to see a really bad cyno outbreak I started to look at my nitrates. Sure enough they bottomed out according to Nyos. Tested a few more times similar results. Said ok, let us raise them and started to dose.

Nothing major and slowly got it to 12 ppm with phosphates holding around .09. Anyway one morning saw my purple stylophora which also was a large 15" inch or so coral have several white patches. I left it for another day and more. It is spreading so fragged it. Didn't help any as those pieces continued to now today none holding on at all. Also triggered to a birds nest that I have.

Montipora and three unknown acros are doing fine. No idea other than I know at the surface chems are fine but that is somewhat misleading, or can be, if cyano is present giving a false positive due to it also consuming nutrients. Oh well.
 
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ryshark

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Good points made in regards to the iodine, I’ve read that too. I don’t fully understand it either, but I recall something about being super careful with the lugols type. I’ve been using a different type that, I think oxidizes out quicker which includes both Calcium Iodate and Potassium Iodide as sources to increase iodine. Which is supposedly safer and even then, I dose way less than the recommended amount. Since like @jda said, there’s not a good way to test for it.
 

Reefltx

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Only thing I see that's really off is your Potassium, I would recommend fixing that first. Personally IME, 4µg/l tin isn't a big issue but definitely fix your source water.
 
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SifuMemphis

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In my experience PO4 is the critical nutrient to have available. Lou Ekus at Fauna Marin has it correct (IMO): SPS don't directly consume PO4. It is too much work. Instead they eat the bacteria that consume and process PO4. Corals are very competitive at consuming nitrates directly when healthy so as long as food is going in they are fine.

If your nitrates are low and you begin to dose NO3 be careful with your PO4 levels as they can plummet when adding NO3 to a depleted system.

Measure, track, change slow, learn and hang in there.

Make's sense. That's the point of running a Zeovit system. The Zeovit rocks (bacteria) consumes the ammonia before it turns into p04/nitrate, and each day, you flush the zeo rocks, which the "mulm" goes back into the DT for corals to feed on.
 
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SifuMemphis

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Looking at your RODI results, TIN was extremely high. When you read the TDS was it still showing 0? I've been reading other threads about Tin, and most of the time, if TDS is 0, the tin is coming from somewhere else NOT the rodi unit itself.

I got my ATI results back with TIN around 9 which isn't as high as yours, but still higher than I would like. Still trying to identify where it's coming from.
 

drawman

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I will guess the vibrant and/or fluc. Known SPS killers for too many to be ignored. Some have some success with it with SPS, but there is something going on that nobody has figured out that leads to many deaths.

It is not the lights.

Salt creep from a weeping or slow leak - no big deal, but plug it up or otherwise fix it.
+1 to this and what @ScottB has mentioned. As you know a lot of changes going on and using two known acro killers for many. I would be curious what your PO4 was during all of these times of dosing. On top of that both will swing your nutrients. Acros will hold a grudge and take time to come back to health IMO.

Finally! I received my ICP results and I finally have something to look at. My Tin and Silicon are off the charts in my RODI water. I use this water for my top off daily and for mixing my saltwater. I am going to order a new batch of RODI filters ASAP. On my DT tank there are traces of Tin but not as sky high as my RODI. Also, my Silicon is a lot lower than my RODI Silicon results and actually -34.09 lower than ATI recommends. Weird, you would think at these levels that they would be much higher in my display tank.

I am using the 44 Gallon Brute trashcans as my Saltwater and RODI reservoirs. Do you think they could be leaching these into the water?

I attached all of my ICP results. Two of them are from my ICP on 03/18/2020 and the other two are from yesterday. I didn't have any Tin in my DT and RODI in March when things were doing well. MY Potassium is really high and my Iodine is very low as well on this recent ICP.

Let me know what you think between the two dates. I feel like I at least have a game plan.

1. Change out RODI filters immediately. Drain all old water and clean both RODI and Saltwater containers. Fill up reservoirs with new water and do 3x20% water changes immediately.

2. Stop Acropower for at least a month as this could be leading to high levels of Potassium.

3. Dose Iodine daily to get Iodine levels back up to where they should be.

Run another ICP test in a month to see where levels are at.

Thanks everyone for the feedback during this. I feel relieved that at least there is something that I can point to and try to fix to make an improvement.

Please let me know if you see anything I should add to my plan or change to improve it.

Seeing lots of high-tin ICP tests. Most of the time, it is in the salt. What salt is everybody using that has these levels? Of course, this sucks if it is in the RODI. Tube from Home Depot/Lowes/whatever has been linked anecdotally - apparently the stuff with the white cords in it, IIRC?

Please read up on one of DR. RHFs articles on Iodine before you dose. What got tested for might not be of any consequence to a reef tank. Iodate is more important, IIRC, but I have not read these in a while. As any halide, including bleach, over dosing can be a problem. You might need to dose... I am not saying that, just compare apples to apples and dose the right thing. In the past, people have bought iodine of some sort or Lugols and dosed and dosed and dosed and their tests never moved because their test kit was looking at a different kind than they were adding.
Agreed Iodine should deplete relatively quickly so I would not give as much credence to a low number. That said, there are plenty of anecdotes of people noticing improvement with STN with dosing. I would look at iodine as a moving target...underdose some daily/weekly with the idea of just maintaining a little in the water as opposed to chasing a target value.

Regardless of whether the tin is in your RODI changing all your filters is a good first step of things to check off the list.
 

Loosechangereef

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And I understand your frustration , bubble algae is a pain, cyno and hair algae is easier to get rid of. bubble will thrive in perfect water condtion,Just watch emerald crabs i had a bigger one picking at my acros. small ones are prettyquiet
 
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