Need help - Big RTN episode on my SPS tank.

drawman

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Well I think I found an issue also tonight.

Decided to test for voltage tonight because as I sit here driving myself mad thinking of everything that has happened over the last couple months and it hit me.

This is crazy I know. Sometimes when I was on my step stool next to the tank with the canopy open I would sometimes brush my forehead or arm across the edge of the T5 lamp reflectors. It would give me what felt like a slight shock. I thought there might be a grounding issue but stopped thinking about it once I would look at the ballasts and see the ground wire plugged in.

SMH!!! I cant believe I would let myself go this long with out even testing why that happened. My company does all low voltage work and I have multiple electrical licenses!!! I am kicking myself right now.

I pulled out my meter and went to test. I raised the canopy and what did this dummy find? My ground probe out of the tank and sitting on my overflow cover. And when did I remove this? I removed it the same time I raised my T5 lights up to their permanent location. I had them mounted temporarily for a couple weeks before moving them.

When I went to move the lights up I dropped a screw in the tank. I had to dismantle my rockwork to get the screw out. When taking the rocks out I moved the probe out of the tank and up onto the overflow lid. I never put it back.... SMH

I tested with both probes in the water and nothing. Also tested with one lead in the water and one to the ground probe and got nothing again. However, when touching the light reflectors to water I was getting 35-40v AC. I got the same thing to the ground probe. Could just be the meter capacitance but also could be the tank as well.

I threw the grobe probe back into the tank immediately.

Might not amount to anything but it could also be something that happened during this time that upset the corals. Can add it to the list.
I'm a little confused is there a path from your reflectors to the tank? Electrical is not my strong suit so I'm just curious.
 

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You are correct, SPS death everywhere you look. Maybe I am just paying more attention; maybe not.

The white tips plus the Vibrant, plus the fuge, plus the few fish I saw (spotted kole is a beauty, love those) had me leaning toward a lack of available nutrient late November. When PO4 bottoms and ALK consumption falls, bad things happen a few weeks later. How often you measuring and how much noise there?

Fluconazole does miracles often but on some occasions wreaks havoc on SPS. @Wunderpus has a somewhat unique (IME) SPS slow motion crash (delayed) after fluconazole. Not confirmed but some suspect. Relatable?

With acropora, their reaction (IME) is rarely coincident with stress unless extreme. I find it delayed by 2-3 weeks very often. If it is a gradual thing it can take longer until they all start going. If you work with that kind of a timeline, maybe you can work back to the setting that started the slide?

And sorry @JCOLE for the pretty stick losses. Been there to some degree or another -- more than once. Learn. Adapt.

Firstly, @JCOLE I am sorry you are going through this nightmare, I can relate fully (as ScottB mentioned above, I've lost $5K+ worth of SPS from similar episode recently).

If I missed it, apologies, but what brand of Fluco did you use? I'm wondering if there's a bad batch out there, as I have used fluco before in the same tank for bryopsis, at the same dose, without issues. Now, with the most recent bottle I bought (few months back) I had EXTREME RTN within about 12 hours.
 
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JCOLE

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I'm a little confused is there a path from your reflectors to the tank? Electrical is not my strong suit so I'm just curious.

No there isn't. That is why I am leaning towards that it wasn't an issue. I did get voltage readings from the water to the reflectors which are a little odd. However, taking the ground probe out of the tank at the very beginning of all of this has me thinking that there is a small possibility of something in there causing issues.

I am going to try and ground the reflectors and see if that helps dissipate the current on the reflectors.
 
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JCOLE

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Hey buddy,
I am truly sorry to hear about your coral losses! I totally understand and know the frustration when things go south. Seems quite a bit is going on with the reef, and sometimes it's better to go back to basics to get your confidence back. Maybe some good ole water changes, skimmer, and fish feeding. Corals may brown out or color down, but in time can heal and even re-grow on dead skeleton. Sometimes the solution to fix something is worse than the problem. I would lean on algae killers and limited p04 and possibly starvation, but either way, what's done is done. Back to Berlin style basics is what I would do my friend. All the best in the recovery process :)

Thanks Perry! Yes, I believe a lot happened over a 3-4 month period that wasn't good for the corals. I have too much automation and on autopilot. I need to take a step back and get back to the basics and put a little more hands on with the tank. Not giving up on the pieces either. I am not going to remove any pieces unless they are completely gone.

Thanks for the advice and motivation! I will be back soon!
 
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JCOLE

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Firstly, @JCOLE I am sorry you are going through this nightmare, I can relate fully (as ScottB mentioned above, I've lost $5K+ worth of SPS from similar episode recently).

If I missed it, apologies, but what brand of Fluco did you use? I'm wondering if there's a bad batch out there, as I have used fluco before in the same tank for bryopsis, at the same dose, without issues. Now, with the most recent bottle I bought (few months back) I had EXTREME RTN within about 12 hours.

Thank you!

It is FluxRX by Blue Life USA. I used it before twice without any issues. However, I used it this time which was a new unopened bottle so there is a possibility of something wrong with it. It claims on the package that it is reef safe.
 

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Sorry for your losses, hands down worst part of this hobby. I saw someone else mention polyfilter. I was thinking after you said you changed your lights maybe a screw fell in, then I saw you mention one did. Maybe another fell in? Polyfilter isn't to expensive and i think it changes colors based on what its pulling out. Just a thought. Good luck and I hope it was just something with the RODI unit. Are you going to send out another sample now that you changed your filters?
 

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Not sure if I missed this, but is your elevated RO/DI tin level from water taken directly from your RO/DI or from the Brute container? If the latter, I would highly suspect that the container is leaching tin. (Of course you can figure that out by submitting water directly from the RO/DI if you haven't already done that.) I have found numerous plastic products that leach tin thru my ICP "soak tests" that I have been performing. (And that Brute looks pretty new).

I will soon post a thread on tin levels of 2000 to 5000 from Lowes braided and non-braided tubing (and a very inert tube that I found to replace them).

But what is strange is that your tin level in your tank is only 4 (which I wouldn't worry about, unless it is an inaccurate ICP reading). How can MT water be so low when you are adding RO/DI with such a high level? Doesn't make much sense. Certainly worth repeating and following tin level in MT though, IMO.

I would certainly be suspicious of the elevated potassium. I wouldn't be surprised if that is causing your problem.
 
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JCOLE

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Sorry for your losses, hands down worst part of this hobby. I saw someone else mention polyfilter. I was thinking after you said you changed your lights maybe a screw fell in, then I saw you mention one did. Maybe another fell in? Polyfilter isn't to expensive and i think it changes colors based on what its pulling out. Just a thought. Good luck and I hope it was just something with the RODI unit. Are you going to send out another sample now that you changed your filters?

Thank you. Yes, it is disheartening. I dropped a washer in the tank when I had to rearrange my rockwork to get it out. After that fun adventure, I was very careful to make sure nothing else fell in after that.

I am going to pick up some polyfilter to try. What could it hurt at this point?

Yes, I plan on changing my filters today and cleaning the barrels. Once everything is filled back up then I am going to mix up a couple of batches and perform a couple of water changes. Probably end of next week or following I will send out another ICP to check on levels.
 
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JCOLE

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Not sure if I missed this, but is your elevated RO/DI tin level from water taken directly from your RO/DI or from the Brute container? If the latter, I would highly suspect that the container is leaching tin. (Of course you can figure that out by submitting water directly from the RO/DI if you haven't already done that.) I have found numerous plastic products that leach tin thru my ICP "soak tests" that I have been performing. (And that Brute looks pretty new).

I will soon post a thread on tin levels of 2000 to 5000 from Lowes braided and non-braided tubing (and a very inert tube that I found to replace them).

But what is strange is that your tin level in your tank is only 4 (which I wouldn't worry about, unless it is an inaccurate ICP reading). How can MT water be so low when you are adding RO/DI with such a high level? Doesn't make much sense. Certainly worth repeating and following tin level in MT though, IMO.

I would certainly be suspicious of the elevated potassium. I wouldn't be surprised if that is causing your problem.

I thought the same thing with the high levels in my RODI container and low levels in my DT which is weird. Water from the fresh water container is used as my top off water. It comes directly from the container. You would think Tin levels would be much higher in my DT than they are.

I have had the Brutes for about 8 months now. I want to say I had them even when I received my ICP results in March.

I stopped daily dosing of Acropower. I haven't found what is in Acropower anywhere. There might be Potassium in there. Tropic Marin seems to have changed up their packaging from the 200 gallon buckets to 160 gallon boxes. The bags are different in the boxes as well. Don't know if anything is up with that or not.

I haven't performed a water change with the new box yet. I am going to mix up a new batch tomorrow after I fill up with the new RODI filters that are coming in today. I plan on performing a couple of water changes back to back. I will send in another ICP in a couple of weeks. Hopefully, my ICP results yield better results afterwards.
 

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Sorry a bit off topic but are you sending a tube each of tank water and RODI with one ICP test kit? I just received my Triton kit today and it says to send two with tank water, one being a backup.
 
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Sorry a bit off topic but are you sending a tube each of tank water and RODI with one ICP test kit? I just received my Triton kit today and it says to send two with tank water, one being a backup.

Yes. I use ATI and it is 3 tubes for the tank water and 1 tube for the RODI.
 
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Thought I would throw this out there also. I use API water conditioner after washing my filter socks with bleach. I run another cycle after washing with bleach with tap water and only the API water conditioner. It says it is for saltwater use also. Do you think this could be an issue?

If not, would it hurt to put some directly in the tank to help detoxify metals?

20210115_094603.jpg
 

X-37B

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I would not add anything else to the mix at this point.
On another note.
I have used 34% h2o2 in place of bleach. Works well with no extra rinsing needed.
1/4 cup is all that is needed.
I now just turn the socks inside out and run a cycle of hot water.
This appears to work just as well as the h2o2.
 
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JCOLE

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I would not add anything else to the mix at this point.
On another note.
I have used 34% h2o2 in place of bleach. Works well with no extra rinsing needed.
1/4 cup is all that is needed.
I now just turn the socks inside out and run a cycle of hot water.
This appears to work just as well as the h2o2.

Thanks. Yes I really don't want to add anything else. Curious to see if this could be an issue with washing with my socks now and in the future.

Also, it says it detoxifies metals so thinking it might help if metals are elevated in my tank right now.

Lost 4 frags last night after work and this morning half of my Needles in Haystack colony is gone. Just scrambling for ideas at the point.
 

X-37B

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Thanks. Yes I really don't want to add anything else. Curious to see if this could be an issue with washing with my socks now and in the future.

Also, it says it detoxifies metals so thinking it might help if metals are elevated in my tank right now.

Lost 4 frags last night after work and this morning half of my Needles in Haystack colony is gone. Just scrambling for ideas at the point.
I would run a couple of poly filters before adding anything, fwiw.
 
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JCOLE

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Just thinking here. I know it's probably a combination of things but why the long time?

I dosed Vibrant 4 months ago and stopped it 2 months ago. I ran chemiclean for a couple days then ran Fluconazole for a week then water change. That was over a month ago.

You would think the damage would happen quickly or atleast during the first week.

Granted things did look dry after the Fluconazole but why now all of a sudden? I seem to lose pieces daily now over the last couple weeks.

This Needles in Haystack looked good last night and now this. Sucks that I can't do anything to help stop this right away.

20210115_101024.jpg


I know the issues though. I am just frustrated and venting at this point.

water crying GIF
 

ryshark

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Just thinking here. I know it's probably a combination of things but why the long time?

I dosed Vibrant 4 months ago and stopped it 2 months ago. I ran chemiclean for a couple days then ran Fluconazole for a week then water change. That was over a month ago.

You would think the damage would happen quickly or atleast during the first week.

Granted things did look dry after the Fluconazole but why now all of a sudden? I seem to lose pieces daily now over the last couple weeks.

This Needles in Haystack looked good last night and now this. Sucks that I can't do anything to help stop this right away.

20210115_101024.jpg


I know the issues though. I am just frustrated and venting at this point.

water crying GIF
This really sucks, sorry you’re going through this and it’s scary because it could happen to any of us.
 
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JCOLE

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This really sucks, sorry you’re going through this and it’s scary because it could happen to any of us.

Yes and it seems to be happening with a lot of posts lately. Need to start a Corals Anonymous support group! Haha. I have to find some humor throughout all of this.
 

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