Need some suggestions on how to bring up my Phosphate and Nitrate levels.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don’t think the difference between 0.05 and 0.1 ppm is significant in terms of any tank observable.

I’d just keep monitoring.

 

[rdavidw]

Thank you Randy. I would guess the bubble algae and chaeto are sucking up some of the phosphates. Hopefully the chaeto will beat out the bubble algae at some point.

 

[Maho.B]

We dose ammonium bicarbonate for nitrate 7 to 10 ppm. Po4 always high, 0.3ppm. No more chaeto in dark fuge, just rock and rubble.

I am curious about using ammonium bicarbonate for increasing/maintaining nitrates, where or how did you figure out the mixture or quantity to use? Also, do you just order the pure bicarbonate online or is it a packaged product for the reef industry?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I am curious about using ammonium bicarbonate for increasing/maintaining nitrates, where or how did you figure out the mixture or quantity to use? Also, do you just order the pure bicarbonate online or is it a packaged product for the reef industry?

Here’s the recipe:

DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

Some reef aquaria have chronic low nitrogen availability. One indicator is very low nitrate. Nitrate dosing is a fine remedy, but it is possible that ammonia dosing may be more beneficial for some organisms since ammonia can be energetically easier to assimilate than is nitrate. For this...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Maho.B]

Excellent, thanks!

 

[Pistondog]

I am curious about using ammonium bicarbonate for increasing/maintaining nitrates, where or how did you figure out the mixture or quantity to use? Also, do you just order the pure bicarbonate online or is it a packaged product for the reef industry?

Thread 'DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems' https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/diy-ammonia-dosing-for-low-nitrate-systems.987087/
Common name is bakers ammonia

Unpretentious Baker's Ammonia (8 oz), Ammonium Bicarbonate, Traditional Leavening Agent https://a.co/d/1Au1sri

 

[rdavidw]

Currently, my phosphates are holding around 0.8 but my nitrates have been falling off, down to around 0.5 to 1 now from around 3 or 4.

I recently added live phytoplankton culture dosing of 150ml per day. The set up is just two 1 gallon jugs with one feeding the dosing pump to the display tank. When that one is about 1/2 empty, I swap it out for the full one, and then top off the half full one with RODI water at 1.019 salinity and add 3ml of F/2 fertilizer, and repeat about once a week. Both jugs have an air pump and a strip light.

I was hoping that the additional food source from the phyto and the small amount of F/2 that is making it into the system would increase the phosphates and nitrates. The opposite seems to be happening, with the live phytoplankton reproducing in the system and soaking up phosphates and nitrates, much like the chaeto does.

I have a 40 watt UV that I have been shutting off for two hours at my phyto dosing time. I wonder if I would be better off leaving it on. My understanding of the UV is that it does not kill or remove anything - it only sterilizes organisms so they can not reproduce.

Perhaps it would be better to let the phyto food source grow in the system, but keep a smaller ball of cheato in the refugium?

I am shooting for a target of 0.05 phosphates and 5 nitrates.

 

[rishma]

Currently, my phosphates are holding around 0.8 but my nitrates have been falling off, down to around 0.5 to 1 now from around 3 or 4.

I recently added live phytoplankton culture dosing of 150ml per day. The set up is just two 1 gallon jugs with one feeding the dosing pump to the display tank. When that one is about 1/2 empty, I swap it out for the full one, and then top off the half full one with RODI water at 1.019 salinity and add 3ml of F/2 fertilizer, and repeat about once a week. Both jugs have an air pump and a strip light.

I was hoping that the additional food source from the phyto and the small amount of F/2 that is making it into the system would increase the phosphates and nitrates. The opposite seems to be happening, with the live phytoplankton reproducing in the system and soaking up phosphates and nitrates, much like the chaeto does.

I have a 40 watt UV that I have been shutting off for two hours at my phyto dosing time. I wonder if I would be better off leaving it on. My understanding of the UV is that it does not kill or remove anything - it only sterilizes organisms so they can not reproduce.

Perhaps it would be better to let the phyto food source grow in the system, but keep a smaller ball of cheato in the refugium?

I am shooting for a target of 0.05 phosphates and 5 nitrates.

Is that a typo at the top on phosphate? Is it 0.8 or 0.08?

I have found it best to use 0.05 as a minimum in my tank, not a target. In my tank 0.05 can quickly become 0.00 and it’s pushing the accuracy limits of the Hanna ULR checker so I try not to let it get below that. As Randy mentioned above 0.1 is good. My tank is happy if it’s between 0.05 and 0.12. But others run much higher without issue (I get more hair algae growing above 0.1). I’d rather find it a little too high than a little too low.

 

[rdavidw]

Is that a typo at the top on phosphate? Is it 0.8 or 0.08?

I have found it best to use 0.05 as a minimum in my tank, not a target. In my tank 0.05 can quickly become 0.00 and it’s pushing the accuracy limits of the Hanna ULR checker so I try not to let it get below that. As Randy mentioned above 0.1 is good. My tank is happy if it’s between 0.05 and 0.12. But others run much higher without issue (I get more hair algae growing above 0.1). I’d rather find it a little too high than a little too low.

Yes, a typo. The highest I have seen in recent history is 0.10. Before I removed my biopellet reactor I was stuck at 0.00.

Thanks for the heads up on the targets. I don't want to make too many changes too quickly. Eventually, I would love to keep things stable with the 1 / 100 phosphate / nitrate ratio around 0.1 / 10

I have increased feeding and am pulling out more cheato to keep a smaller ball. I wonder what roll my deep sand bed in my refugium is playing with the very low nitrates?

I am hoping the phytoplankton dosing helps, we will see.

 

[rishma]

Yes, a typo. The highest I have seen in recent history is 0.10. Before I removed my biopellet reactor I was stuck at 0.00.

Thanks for the heads up on the targets. I don't want to make too many changes too quickly. Eventually, I would love to keep things stable with the 1 / 100 phosphate / nitrate ratio around 0.1 / 10

I have increased feeding and am pulling out more cheato to keep a smaller ball. I wonder what roll my deep sand bed in my refugium is playing with the very low nitrates?

I am hoping the phytoplankton dosing helps, we will see.

I bet the deep sand bed is keeping nitrates low. I am not a subscriber to the ratio idea but agree that both 0.1 and 10 are good numbers. My tank doesn’t seem to look any different with 2, 10, or 15 ppm nitrate.

I had phyto raise my phosphate, likely because the liquid it was cultured in had higher phosphate.

 

[rdavidw]

I bet the deep sand bed is keeping nitrates low. I am not a subscriber to the ratio idea but agree that both 0.1 and 10 are good numbers. My tank doesn’t seem to look any different with 2, 10, or 15 ppm nitrate.

I had phyto raise my phosphate, likely because the liquid it was cultured in had higher phosphate.

Was it live phyto? I am dosing straight from the culture. So far, it looks like the live phyto is brining my phosphates down a bit. I am going to try to add more F/2 to the culture to see if that brings it up some.

 

[rishma]

Was it live phyto? I am dosing straight from the culture. So far, it looks like the live phyto is brining my phosphates down a bit. I am going to try to add more F/2 to the culture to see if that brings it up some.

Yes, live phyto I was buying not culturing myself. Tank loved it until phosphate rose too much. I don’t think it’s a phyto issue in general. I am not sure how it would lower phosphate, maybe multiplying in tank then getting skimmed out? Interesting. Someday I’ll culture it myself, I liked all the life that seemed to appear when I was dosing it.

 

[rdavidw]

Yes, live phyto I was buying not culturing myself. Tank loved it until phosphate rose too much. I don’t think it’s a phyto issue in general. I am not sure how it would lower phosphate, maybe multiplying in tank then getting skimmed out? Interesting. Someday I’ll culture it myself, I liked all the life that seemed to appear when I was dosing it.

In doing more research, it has been suggested that in the right environment and dosed at higher levels (from 1 to 5 ml per system gallon per day), the phyto can act much like the chaeto and suck up phosphates and nitrates. I would speculate they are then processed by the system inhabitants, taken up by bacteria and then skimmed out.

I am only a week in to dosing 150ml per day and my phosphates have not gone up, but my nitrates have gone down. Not sure if there is a correlation.

My phyto culture system is not up to full strength yet, but should be soon. The first batch may have a higher level of F/2 and less phyto. I will swap out to the second batch in the next few days, which is already much darker.

I mostly set up the phyto for my small clam, but everything loves it and I should be getting a very robust pod population from it.

 

[rishma]

In doing more research, it has been suggested that in the right environment and dosed at higher levels (from 1 to 5 ml per system gallon per day), the phyto can act much like the chaeto and suck up phosphates and nitrates. I would speculate they are then processed by the system inhabitants, taken up by bacteria and then skimmed out.

I am only a week in to dosing 150ml per day and my phosphates have not gone up, but my nitrates have gone down. Not sure if there is a correlation.

My phyto culture system is not up to full strength yet, but should be soon. The first batch may have a higher level of F/2 and less phyto. I will swap out to the second batch in the next few days, which is already much darker.

I mostly set up the phyto for my small clam, but everything loves it and I should be getting a very robust pod population from it.

That makes sense, I had just never thought of it. I’ve never cultured phyto but it seems like a rabbit hole I’d fall down.

I think that if there is enough prey and food as a nitrogen source, measurable nitrate is not important. We really just use it as a proxy to indicate there is enough nitrogen.

 

[stE25wy14]

I’m so sorry for your crash, maybe try overfeeding?
Horrible advice, buts that’s how I get my phosphate up XD, and my coral count down……..
I like that bar u have took, and what are those plants u growing in the background?

 

[rdavidw]

I’m so sorry for your crash, maybe try overfeeding?
Horrible advice, buts that’s how I get my phosphate up XD, and my coral count down……..
I like that bar u have took, and what are those plants u growing in the background?

Overfeeding is not horrible advice. It works. But one of the goals I am working towards is a minimal maintenance tank. I spend my winters in China for about four months each year. I am trying to get the tank to be able to survive as long as possible between hired maintenance visits and to have someone on call if any of my cams or txt alarms show anything that needs attention. Overfeeding frozen food daily does not fit into that plan. I have an auto-feeder and I keep the tank very lightly stocked with fish that can mostly live on just algae and pods. In the long run, it would just be cheaper to have someone maintain the tank once a week when I am gone - but I like the challenge of setting up the automation and accept the risk. Best I can estimate, is that the tank can go about 3 weeks without being touched before the dosing and auto-feeder has to be refilled, the phyto culture rotated, skimmer and glass cleaned and so on.

Thanks on the bar - I started brewing beer around the same time I got into reefing, back in the early 90s.

The plants in the workshop is basil in a hydroponics set up, with an auto water top off and fertilizer dosing.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Nutrients can be raised by both feeding more or dosing N and P. Both have pros and cons and neither is always best.

Dosing gives better independent control and is less expensive.

Feeding more can add more than N and P, which itself has pros and cons.

 

[rdavidw]

Looking for some suggestions on how to balance my phosphates and nitrates.
They were both dropped to undetectable with my Hanna low level pho test and Nios nitrate test kits a few months back. I removed my biopellet reactor and went back to growing cheato and my levels came up some.

My targets are 0.1 / 10

11/24 - 0.02 Phos / 1 Nitrate
12/1 - 0.02 Phos / 0.5 Nitrate
12/8- 0.25 Phos / 0.75 Nitrate

I have been pulling out about 1/2 of the cheato around once a week to keep it around the same size, about the size of a basket ball. I have also been dosing live phyto, 250 ml per day - and have been slowly increasing the amount of F/2 fertilizer to get a deeper green. I have also been feeding heavier, starting about two months ago. I don't know why my phos shot up so much this week. I have a deep sand bed in my refugium, which may be depressing my nitrate levels. I am also fighting a bad bubble algae outbreak, after I removed the biopellets.

I already run 8 dosing pumps and don't want to add one more for nitrates, if I can find good alternative.

Should I remove the deep sand bed? I know they are very old school but I like the amount of biodiversity it promotes. I also don't run any filter socks or rollers, I just let my the detritus sit on the DSB and break down.

Thank you for any suggestions!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Looking for some suggestions on how to balance my phosphates and nitrates.
They were both dropped to undetectable with my Hanna low level pho test and Nios nitrate test kits a few months back. I removed my biopellet reactor and went back to growing cheato and my levels came up some.

My targets are 0.1 / 10

11/24 - 0.02 Phos / 1 Nitrate
12/1 - 0.02 Phos / 0.5 Nitrate
12/8- 0.25 Phos / 0.75 Nitrate

I have been pulling out about 1/2 of the cheato around once a week to keep it around the same size, about the size of a basket ball. I have also been dosing live phyto, 250 ml per day - and have been slowly increasing the amount of F/2 fertilizer to get a deeper green. I have also been feeding heavier, starting about two months ago. I don't know why my phos shot up so much this week. I have a deep sand bed in my refugium, which may be depressing my nitrate levels. I am also fighting a bad bubble algae outbreak, after I removed the biopellets.

I already run 8 dosing pumps and don't want to add one more for nitrates, if I can find good alternative.

Should I remove the deep sand bed? I know they are very old school but I like the amount of biodiversity it promotes. I also don't run any filter socks or rollers, I just let my the detritus sit on the DSB and break down.

Thank you for any suggestions!

Is the 12/8 phosphate number reproducible? I’m not seeing how it rose without nitrate rising more.

I’m not a fan of adding f2 directly to reef aquaria, though it may be ok.

Dosing ammonium bicarbonate can be a good choice for boosting nitrate and N overall.

 

[rdavidw]

Is the 12/8 phosphate number reproducible? I’m not seeing how it rose without nitrate rising more.

I’m not a fan of adding f2 directly to reef aquaria, though it may be ok.

Dosing ammonium bicarbonate can be a good choice for boosting nitrate and N overall.

I ran the test twice with the same 0.25 results. I am using the digital Hanna low range tester.

I don't dose any F/2 directly to my tank. I have two, 1 gallon glass jugs. Jug 1 starts half full of phytoplankton and I top it off with RODI water at 1.19 salinity and add 8ml of F/2 (should only need 4ml but I got some weak F/2) . Jug 1 then sits for a week to get up to strength. Both jugs are wrapped with an LED strip and have a air bubbler. Jug 2 doses 250 ml a day for about a half gallon a week. Once a week swap the jugs and repeat. The jug being dosed does not get any F/2 and starts to turn a little more yellow over the week it is being dosed.

With my limited understanding of water chemistry, I am guessing there is a steady input of both phos and nitrates from feeding and the phytoplankton at about the 1 to 10 ratio. I am speculating that the water is being stripped of both by the biological action of the tank and deep sand bed and the growth of the cheato and bubble algae, but not at the same input ratio. Perhaps the nitrates are the limiting factor to the plant growth.

Will running GFO just strip phosphates without pulling out nitrates? Or, would it be better to add ammonium bicarbonate so the cheato can pull out the higher phosphates, until the levels even out?

Long term, I want to stabilize my system at my target levels as simply and naturally as possible, perhaps by adjusting the amount of cheato and the lighting cycle on the refugium.

Thank you for your time with this. It is greatly appreciated.