Neptune Systems Apex Controller / WAVs and COR15 - word of warning

[James Fox]

Just thought I would share my experience - This morning around 9:30 am my WAV pumps and COR15 return pump failed on my Reefer 350. They started clicking on for 2 seconds, then off for 30 or so, and kept doing this for a bit. I started unplugging stuff one at a time to see if something was shorting out, and when I unplugged the DOS from my EB832 the entire thing shut down. Tried to turn it back on, and it seems like everything works except the 1link ports (nothing plugged into the 24v ports).
I am working with Netpune support, but in the meantime I had to run out and get some cheapo aqueon return pump and powerheads from petsmart. They are not anywhere near strong enough, but hope they keep my tank from crashing as it was completely still for about 2 hours.
So... if I had to do it all over again?
I would NOT get the COR15 pump. I would get the COR20, or any other return pump that can run without the 1link. It's a terrible single point of failure, and a quick internet search shows it's not uncommon for the 1link part of the energy bar to fail. That's bad for the most critical life support part of your tank.
I love the idea of the ecosystem of the Apex controller - I invested in the controller, EB832, WAV pumps, COR15, DOS + reservoir, flow control, leak detection - about every gizmo I could. I didn't expect it to fail within 3 months of purchase, and I know hardware can fail, but the problem with this system is that it's got too many single point of failures. If I were out of town (going to Aquashella this weekend for 4 days) this would have been a disaster - my corals are already snotting up, so I am sure they are stressed.
I don't want to discourage folks from buying Neptune Systems products, they really are great and have made my re-entry into the hobby a much better success, but I would NOT put the critical life support stuff all on 1link - at least have a pump (COR20) that can run without it.
Although I probably would not get the WAV pumps again either, just because they are POWERFUL. Like, in my reefer 350 the max I can do is 12%, when I first plugged them in and turned them on (100%) they pushed water out of the tank, lol.

 

[Water Dog]

Yikes! Sorry for your troubles. Although I do own a 2016 Apex, your experience along with quite a few others’ poor experiences further reinforces my decision to not go with a full ecosystem of Neptune parts. I’ll stick with my Vortech wavemakers, BRS dosers, Fluval return pump and Tunze ATO.

 

[James Fox]

Yikes! Sorry for your troubles. Although I do own a 2016 Apex, your experience along with quite a few others’ poor experiences further reinforces my decision to not go with a full ecosystem of Neptune parts. I’ll stick with my Vortech wavemakers, BRS dosers, Fluval return pump and Tunze ATO.

That's a good idea, I wish I had done the same.
Looks like the power bar is just totally dead now, with nothing plugged in when you plug it in it clicks after 25 seconds then clicks again after 8 -I used a phone charger to determine that it's turning on just for a bit then shutting off. So basically this thing has been systematically failing since this morning to the point where it currently does nothing, won't even start up the apex controller.
So, with all this money invested in this system I guess I need to look at buying another power bar so I can have one running while the other is in the shop... kind of like owning old Jaguar cars I suppose.

 

[ca1ore]

The whole 'single point of failure' is the thing that has most worried me about the apex (and any other controller). I think it is wise to plan your system so that if the apex goes down it is an inconvenience .... not a catastrophe.

 

[BestMomEver]

That's a good idea, I wish I had done the same.
Looks like the power bar is just totally dead now, with nothing plugged in when you plug it in it clicks after 25 seconds then clicks again after 8 -I used a phone charger to determine that it's turning on just for a bit then shutting off. So basically this thing has been systematically failing since this morning to the point where it currently does nothing, won't even start up the apex controller.
So, with all this money invested in this system I guess I need to look at buying another power bar so I can have one running while the other is in the shop... kind of like owning old Jaguar cars I suppose.

I have been debating abt purchasing the Apex system for some time. I like the convenience of it but hubby says putting all my reefing “eggs” in one basket is a mistake. I can’t stand that he might be right on this one. I guess I’ll stick with my Radions, Tunze ATO, gyre 1k and wavepucks, Eheim return pump, etc.

 

[James Fox]

I do really like the Neptune system - I just never considered redundancy on the components. Moving forward I will be running with 2 power bars instead of just one (added another for $250), since that seems to be the one point of failure many people complain about - plus, relays in general have a fixed lifespan.
I think that failure before 3 months is hopefully the exception, not the rule.

 

[User1]

Most, if not all of the controllers on the market today, are hobby grade products. They are not lab grade or something we would ask NASA to launch into space. I do own a Apex and I also own a Reef Angel with great success on both. In fact, I also own a pair of Cor 15's...go figure. Again, great success and no failures to day. I think I brought the first one online upon first batch and picked up a 2nd about a month later. I go back having used Neptune's products with their earlier 2000 model controller that was using X-10 technology to turn on and off devices. Worked well surprisingly and again no issues until my young GSD thought the controller was a chew toy...oddly enough it was my fault for leaving it on the floor when doing something on the tank and it still worked even after.

Anyway controllers in my opinion are a blessing and a curse. Some of the ecosystems can get pretty large when you start adding the products together. Factor in other things then the breaker on your house, well, Murphy could, and usually does, strike. Regardless of the brand you use. Trust me, I'm one who is trying to use the controller more and more to reduce the number of dongles, other manufacture controllers and crap that is doing nothing more than causing me a wiring and mounting nightmare every night. This means I have to have some things decoupled that won't kill the system if something does go South.

For me that are the power heads. In this case I am using Maxspect XF280's and they are not connected to the Apex. So if skimmer or return Cor 15's fail I still have water movement. In the case of a power failure, well, those are at least backed up and running on battery. Rest of the stuff I don't really care about with regards to it being a emergency when there is water movement for oxygen. Just how I see it. Hopefully Neptune will get your stuff resolved.

Hope it wasn't related to the recent firmware / update. That is another thing - I don't upgrade right away. I wait it out a point or two and let the trail blazers debug and report issues

 

[redpine42]

Wow. Went down the same rabbit hole with Apex and the same gear.

Really has me wondering as most computer systems built today last for years not months.

As for my next build I'm a techie so I'll be using the raspberry pi open source solution. I understand how it works and should be able to fix anything that fails.

 

[roberthu526]

Well I have two COR15 and a DOS connected to the EB832 via the 1link ports. Now I am worried as hell cause I have read several posts where people had this same issue. The tank I am running the COR15’s have thousands $ worth of fish and some are very hard to get to acclimated to captivity. If this tank crashes I may just say good bye to this hobby.
Customer service matters but I hope I will never have to deal with customer service.

 

[User1]

Well I have two COR15 and a DOS connected to the EB832 via the 1link ports. Now I am worried as hell cause I have read several posts where people had this same issue. The tank I am running the COR15’s have thousands $ worth of fish and some are very hard to get to acclimated to captivity. If this tank crashes I may just say good bye to this hobby.
Customer service matters but I hope I will never have to deal with customer service.

You should probably slow down there - I think you are over reacting a bit. I have a pair of Cor 15's like I said, ATO, and feeder no issues. I'm sure there are plenty of others without. I can't speak what the breakdown is of those error free but I'd wager there are a lot of apex units out there with people not reporting issues. If you are that concerned head over to their forum and see how many of these issues are there or ask a question or two. The only issue I've personally had with my Cor 15 is that after cleaning one time it went into a overdrive icon and wouldn't power up. Quick look at the documentation (I know, right - who uses those these days) it actually explains what that could be. Sure enough take it apart real quick and the o-ring wasn't set properly. 5 minutes and it was back up and running.

I'm not the Oracle here by any means but if you are worried than maybe just re-sell them and buy something larger, more established, with a longer running history. The Cor's are relatively new to market outside the beta program and testers. Maybe you need something like a pair of abyss or other pumps. In any case redundancy sounds like it should be your priority with whatever you use.

 

[roberthu526]

You should probably slow down there - I think you are over reacting a bit. I have a pair of Cor 15's like I said, ATO, and feeder no issues. I'm sure there are plenty of others without. I can't speak what the breakdown is of those error free but I'd wager there are a lot of apex units out there with people not reporting issues. If you are that concerned head over to their forum and see how many of these issues are there or ask a question or two. The only issue I've personally had with my Cor 15 is that after cleaning one time it went into a overdrive icon and wouldn't power up. Quick look at the documentation (I know, right - who uses those these days) it actually explains what that could be. Sure enough take it apart real quick and the o-ring wasn't set properly. 5 minutes and it was back up and running.

I'm not the Oracle here by any means but if you are worried than maybe just re-sell them and buy something larger, more established, with a longer running history. The Cor's are relatively new to market outside the beta program and testers. Maybe you need something like a pair of abyss or other pumps. In any case redundancy sounds like it should be your priority with whatever you use.

Yes. With two pumps both being COR15 and both powered by 1link it was not a wise decision. I am going to change one of them to VarioS 6 so I have some kind of redundancy.

 

[islandbreeze]

Ok so all this reading of 24v outputs failing on new 832 bar and 1link...sounding like relay issue but not to sound naive...im setting up new build ive been using classic apex for over a decade no real issues had a few old style 8 outlet bars go out prob corrosion they had pretty rusty screws....anyway i bought a new wifi apex a cor 15 and 3 dos pumps... my question for anyone who may know is if i used the provided power supply to the cor 15 and plugged in to a different non apex powerstrip would i still loose power if 832 shuts off. I could use aquabus cable direct to apex brain bypassing the 1link on 832 or apex head unit...i could also then backup power the apex w my extra power cord for backup to monitor if the 832 fails in any way also...but still have my cor 15 set to set on default on in programming and plugged into brain for comms only. im also curoius if i used one of my dos pumps to power the cor15 thru its 24v out on the dos and use the dos's separate power supply? In theory only the aquabus would be connected from the 832 or brain to the dos and the 24link plug direct to the cor 15 from the first dos pump. Does that make sense..im def plumbing in a small return pump also maybe an eheim to run just fast enough to keep tank in constant feed mode rate to keep sump from ever overfilling and min water flow turnover always if apex fails or a varios w a min flow set and varible w the breakout box to tweak flows even slower for feed mode or maintsnence mode w dependable octo pump... if i were to just stop the cor15 for feed mode or and let my other return pump eheim on other return outlet in tank (i have 2) just keep a min flow always or just slow momentarily for feed..so one return runnung at min overflow speed(feeding or power out speed)(eheim) and cor 15 either off for feed or on one speed day and lower speed nite....i could couple the 2 pumps so i never worry about apex if it fails. Dang i know long post but peace of mind is worth the engineering....anyway any input would be valuable on these possisible scenarios...any thoughts?

 

[islandbreeze]

Has anyone used 2 apexes together? I have a classic i could integrate for the ac eheim pump solely.. have it detect a slow flow rate through a flow sensor union on return on its separate circuit and detect when new apex wifi is burnt up or fails...and have instant controllable features to enable when new 2016 apex fails....just thinking..have some really special maroon lightning pairs and acan colonies i never want to loose and this install will be 20 milea from my house so its super important to never fail. Ever.

 

[phatduckk]

I had a lemon Neptune product and their support was actually super nice & helpful. After a couple emails they confirmed it was a hardware failure and sent me a new unit (sent bad one back after receiving the new, good one).

things break but my experience with their support went as well as I could hope.

 

[User1]

Ok so all this reading of 24v outputs failing on new 832 bar and 1link...sounding like relay issue but not to sound naive...im setting up new build ive been using classic apex for over a decade no real issues had a few old style 8 outlet bars go out prob corrosion they had pretty rusty screws....anyway i bought a new wifi apex a cor 15 and 3 dos pumps... my question for anyone who may know is if i used the provided power supply to the cor 15 and plugged in to a different non apex powerstrip would i still loose power if 832 shuts off. I could use aquabus cable direct to apex brain bypassing the 1link on 832 or apex head unit...i could also then backup power the apex w my extra power cord for backup to monitor if the 832 fails in any way also...but still have my cor 15 set to set on default on in programming and plugged into brain for comms only. im also curoius if i used one of my dos pumps to power the cor15 thru its 24v out on the dos and use the dos's separate power supply? In theory only the aquabus would be connected from the 832 or brain to the dos and the 24link plug direct to the cor 15 from the first dos pump. Does that make sense..im def plumbing in a small return pump also maybe an eheim to run just fast enough to keep tank in constant feed mode rate to keep sump from ever overfilling and min water flow turnover always if apex fails or a varios w a min flow set and varible w the breakout box to tweak flows even slower for feed mode or maintsnence mode w dependable octo pump... if i were to just stop the cor15 for feed mode or and let my other return pump eheim on other return outlet in tank (i have 2) just keep a min flow always or just slow momentarily for feed..so one return runnung at min overflow speed(feeding or power out speed)(eheim) and cor 15 either off for feed or on one speed day and lower speed nite....i could couple the 2 pumps so i never worry about apex if it fails. Dang i know long post but peace of mind is worth the engineering....anyway any input would be valuable on these possisible scenarios...any thoughts?

Cor 15 uses the 1 link.

Cor 20 uses its own power brick.

I have a pair of 15's and a 20. Obviously the 15's are powered by the energy bar but the Cor 20 is using a wall outlet. Not using the energy bar. Cor 15 and 20 are used for returns (redundant) and the other Cor 15 is powering my skimmer. I've been running this way now for about 19 months give or take. Everything has been pretty rock solid. This set up actually came in handy last month when our local utility power company messed up and generated a surge 3 times what our neighborhood could handle. Reset every darn breaker in the house and we lost a lot of appliances.

Anyway - the energy bar tripped but when the power came back on and I reset the circuit panel breakers the Cor 20 was instantly on. The Energy bar was still locked up somehow and it took me a bit to see what was going on. Since I had flow I wasn't worried so got to it the next day. Finally found the reset and unplugged a few things and everything powered up. Point being the pump on a different outlet, not related to the energy bar, regardless of pump or controller, is a good idea.

 

[Mical]

Has anyone used 2 apexes together? I have a classic i could integrate for the ac eheim pump solely.. have it detect a slow flow rate through a flow sensor union on return on its separate circuit and detect when new apex wifi is burnt up or fails...and have instant controllable features to enable when new 2016 apex fails....just thinking..have some really special maroon lightning pairs and acan colonies i never want to loose and this install will be 20 milea from my house so its super important to never fail. Ever.

I'm using an Apex Classic and controlling 2 tanks off one a single controller. For the last 5 years it's been flawless (outside of user error) But as others' have mentioned I don't place "all my eggs in one basket" my vortechs are on a UPS so I have flow in case of power outage. My return pumps will be soon on same UPS. I want to rely on Apex but...

 

[islandbreeze]

thanks, i thought my cor 15 came w a power supply but i see now u correct. Maybe i should just run it as its intended from my apex brain or dos pump 1link output not the 832. I think im gonna do that and just run a 24/7 octo pump on my other apex. It will be at set rate for algae reactor and min overflow speed w sensor like i was thinking...i like the idea of the cor15 integration but having any other pump controlled by same 832 or samr brain even scares me. If something trips the whole system ie 24v burnup id hate to risk everything shutting down.. if ur 832 failed and your cor20 aquabus plugged in or if brain failed whats to stop cor 20 from shutting off reguarless of different power strip source for its power? Will the default on set on program still work for the cor 20 if the 832 or brain were to fail to to 24v complications i wonder. Also going back to the point of plugging in my cor 15 to a dos 24v link output...since dos has separate power supply does that sound like good idea? Id use my dos for waterchanging not my alk calc dos in case it had issues id not mess up my alk calc.

 

[mike550]

Thanks for sharing what happened. I struggle with whether or not a controller is worth it for me. I like the idea of having more control and ways for monitoring and reporting problems. But when the controller is the problem thats a completely different type of risk.

 

[islandbreeze]

I am puting in one of my mp10wds in the cube also w backup power also i love them for dependability just 1...just dont want bunch of heat either....3 pumps ugh....redundancy peace of mind..dont mind a little overkill...no chiller tho...

 

[islandbreeze]

Man ill never go back without the apex...its served me well in the past had 8 tanks linked w pm1s and it rarely gave me issues....aside from calibrating and probes wandering sometimes....i think its really up to us the consumer to buy whatever insurance we can afford tho. Thinking outside the box and preventing the system from controlling everthing w only one computer and total meltdown might just be the best safe option.