Nervous about copper

bknapp · Nov 12, 2015

This is my first ever QT setup, has been set up almost two weeks. Have gone through two treatments with Prazi added carbon last night to pull any remnants out and have a five gallon water Change scheduled for tomorrow. There are three fish in the tank, a forty breeder. A magnificent fox face, female divided leopard and a scooter blenny. They're all established fish that I've kept from my 180 break down, the new tank is currently cycling with all new rock and sand. I have a bottle of Cupramine.

I've read and talked to so many people and have gotten so many replies and opinions that all vary. Please help calm my nerves and break it down easily for me to understand the next steps.

Thanks.

melypr1985 · Nov 12, 2015

bknapp said:
This is my first ever QT setup, has been set up almost two weeks. Have gone through two treatments with Prazi added carbon last night to pull any remnants out and have a five gallon water Change scheduled for tomorrow. There are three fish in the tank, a forty breeder. A magnificent fox face, female divided leopard and a scooter blenny. They're all established fish that I've kept from my 180 break down, the new tank is currently cycling with all new rock and sand. I have a bottle of Cupramine.

I've read and talked to so many people and have gotten so many replies and opinions that all vary. Please help calm my nerves and break it down easily for me to understand the next steps.

Thanks.

Hi! dont be nervous. The hardest part is testing often enough to make sure you keep the copper and therapeutic levels. That and making sure not to cross contaminate with your DT of course.

Here is a great "how to" (i take a whole week to get to the proper levels to be sure all fish have a chance to acclimate to it)

Copper: Treats Ich (Cryptocaryon irritans), Marine Velvet disease (Amyloodinium); possibly Uronema marinum

How To Treat - First, it is important to know what kind of copper you are using. Cupramine is fully charged (ionic) copper, and has a therapeutic range of 0.35-0.5 mg/L or ppm. You would use a Seachem or Salifert copper test kit for Cupramine, as those are capable of reading copper in the low range. Coppersafe, on the other hand, is chelated copper. It has a much higher therapeutic range of 1.5-2.0 mg/L or ppm. As such, you need a “total copper test kit” such as API’s to measure Coppersafe.

Standard copper treatment lasts 30 consecutive days. The reason it takes so long is copper only targets the “free swimming stage” (the same holds true for all chemical treatments & hypo). While 7-14 days is the “norm” to reach this stage, certain strains of ich have prolonged life cycles. Indeed, even 30 days may not be long enough in some rare cases. This is why it is so important to observe after treatment ends, to ensure symptoms do not return.

Therapeutic copper levels must be maintained at all times during the 30 days, so testing often is important. If the level drops even slightly out of range, then the 30 day clock starts all over again. One reason your copper level may drop unexpectedly is if you are treating in a tank with rock and substrate; those should not be used in the presence of copper due to absorption. Conversely, if you exceed the therapeutic range you risk killing the fish.

Copper is a poison, pure and simple. It only works because most fish are able to withstand being in it longer than the parasites. Knowing this, it is wise to raise your copper level very slowly (over 3-5 days) instead of the usual 24-48 hours recommended on the labels. Doing so increases your odds of successfully treating a “copper sensitive” fish. Remove copper after 30 days by running activated carbon.

Pros - Readily available

Cons/Side Effects - Appetite suppression is a common side effect. If a fish stops eating, don’t add more copper until he resumes. If the fish is still not eating after 2-3 days, start doing water changes (lowering the copper concentration) until he eats. If this happens a second time after you resume raising the copper, you’ll know you’ve encountered a “copper sensitive” fish and an alternative treatment should be used instead. Some species of fish, such as angels, puffers, lions and mandarins are notoriously difficult to treat with copper.

4FordFamily · Nov 12, 2015

This thread may help you. The fact that they're established works in your favor. Check out all of the fish I got through cupramine at 2-3x recommended dosage for a very extended period of time. These guys are all alive still as well except for a few I killed during TTM

I have a strain of ich that is absolutely nuts. Super ich. That's why the precautions. Either it survived all of this cupramine and TTM TWICE or it lived longer than 82 days fallow because that's how long my tank ran fallow! Hypo is currently doing its thing but keeping this crap OUT of your tank from the beginning is key.

I overkill on keeping disease out. I would rather kill fish in qt than risk thousands of dollars of healthy fish in my DT's

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cupramine-and-angels-my-log.200465/

jd371 · Nov 12, 2015

I have a Royal Gramma that I thought had flukes because he was flashing a lot, but didn't show any visible signs of ich. After 2 prazi treatments in the DT with no improvement I moved him to the QT for copper treatment. Within a few days of the treatment he went from deaths door to being normal again, a night and day difference. I used Cuppramine and tested the dosage with a copper test kit every other day. I can remove the copper from the QT next week and will continue to keep him in the QT for observation another couple of weeks. In the meantime I'm feeding him twice daily frozen food and flakes soaked in selcon to get him healthy for when I move him back to the DT.

Breakthecycle2 · Nov 12, 2015

Im going to add my two cents. I would and prefer copper safe over cupramine. I've had mixed results with cupramine. It works on parasites for sure, but it seems to be very harsh on fish, or at least some fish. I switched to coppersafe and no fish stopped eating and if anything seemed to have gained an appetite.

4FordFamily · Nov 12, 2015

Breakthecycle2 said:
Im going to add my two cents. I would and prefer copper safe over cupramine. I've had mixed results with cupramine. It works on parasites for sure, but it seems to be very harsh on fish, or at least some fish. I switched to coppersafe and no fish stopped eating and if anything seemed to have gained an appetite.

It's been years since I used copper safe but I lost more fish using it I seem to remember. But then again in those days I was less knowledgable and used prime in conjunction with which probably led to the deaths.