New 180 Build - Mini Coop's Dream Tank

pluikens · Jan 4, 2018

Mini Coop said:
Ok! Got a cabinet and pretty sure we have a plan for the cords! Can’t wait to update!

New problem....glass sump is draining too slow. If I Restrict drains from the tank, I will need to restrict the return and hoping to avoid that.
Here is the set up. The water level is pretty high for the glass too. Also getting a bit of a vortex for the drain in the sump - hubby glued this all in - including the bulkhead! without a union So. . . . any suggestions or is all of this ok? (I took the strainer out for now to increase drainage, but not sure how good that is for it - might be fine. It is a 2" pipe with filter socks and a protein skimmer. Not much going to get stuck in it for sure.

Also looking like air bubbles here and there out of the returns. Not sure if this is normal or not. Input welcome!

I've been following along but haven't made any comments so far. Looks like you're on your way to a really nice setup! Have you tried closing the valve from the filter sock tank into the sump to let the tank fill up, then open it up and see how quickly (and if!) the water level drops? If it dropped relatively quickly I'd feel better that the 2 inch pipe can keep up with the flow and where it's at now is just equilibrium.

Mini Coop · Jan 4, 2018

pluikens said:
I've been following along but haven't made any comments so far. Looks like you're on your way to a really nice setup! Have you tried closing the valve from the filter sock tank into the sump to let the tank fill up, then open it up and see how quickly (and if!) the water level drops? If it dropped relatively quickly I'd feel better that the 2 inch pipe can keep up with the flow and where it's at now is just equilibrium.

Hello @pluikens - thanks for following! We are certainly trying!! It has been a long and stressful road, but will be all worth it. I must admit - today - running over 300 gallons of water through my house was a bit nerve wrecking!

We are going to turn the elbow upside down and create more of a durso drain and see how that does. Then we will fine tune the drains and see if we can't get that sweet spot! I swear I need 2 more weeks of vacation!! That is a great test idea too! We may try that tomorrow!

Thanks for chiming in!

Mini Coop · Jan 4, 2018

Ok - so we ran the entire tank a few times today with a few snags!
1. balance of water (always a project)
2. a leak in a bulkhead (working on fixing this now - we see no issues, so we are hoping it was just too tight. We will test it when the monsters go to bed!

We found a solution today for the cords! We found a wall hutch (like for a bathroom) that we will mount over by the power supply on the left of the basement set up! We will run extension cords from the trough up the rafters with 14 gage extension cords hung with pvc brackets

The problem with the concrete wall (after I thought about it) is that there are pipes - the main drains and returns - very close to that wall, so if the main tank leaked for whatever reason, we would have a huge problem! So - hopefully this will work!

Question - tank is full of saltwater - all at temp (still have a heater in the main tank too) - power head running in the trough and in the main tank. I am assuming it will start cycling even if I don't have the entire thing running? (I have a few pieces of dry rock in the trough too). Just want to make sure by starting and stopping the return pump (we won't let it go tonight because we need to monitor it a little more first) I am not interrupting the cycle!

Flippers4pups · Jan 4, 2018

Mini Coop said:
Hello @pluikens - thanks for following! We are certainly trying!! It has been a long and stressful road, but will be all worth it. I must admit - today - running over 300 gallons of water through my house was a bit nerve wrecking!

We are going to turn the elbow upside down and create more of a durso drain and see how that does. Then we will fine tune the drains and see if we can't get that sweet spot! I swear I need 2 more weeks of vacation!! That is a great test idea too! We may try that tomorrow! Thanks for chiming in!

In your other thread, you stated that the drains in the DT we're making a lot of noise. Can you take a picture of the durso's when running and post so I can see? Does it sound like a "toilet flushing"?

Mini Coop · Jan 4, 2018

Flippers4pups said:
In your other thread, you stated that the drains in the DT we're making a lot of noise. Can you take a picture of the durso's when running and post so I can see? Does it sound like a "toilet flushing"?

I just happened to take a video tonight while it was running, but as you can see in the second video, we have a bulkhead leaking, :mad: and NO clue why. No cracks in the tank, it is coming out between the nut and the thread and seeping directly by the tank too. We took it apart and everything looks fine. Any other suggestions?

Sorry - I was not taking a video of the dursos on purpose, but hopefully you can get an idea. If not, I will take another tomorrow. Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down.

Also - we turned the elbow upside down, and drilled a hole in the upper elbow on the other side - and it worked SO much better! The water level is also WAY more consistent! Still thinking we may need to add a "t" on the water side of the tank because the level is a little above the pipe. And find a way to do an emergency drain . . . but the bulkhead is first concern.

(Sorry - I look terrible - I have been sick all day and still trying to get this tank ready).

Bulkhead leak - This was before we turned the elbow and re-tightened the bulkhead, but it is doing the same thing.

ksfulk · Jan 4, 2018

Mini Coop said:
I just happened to take a video tonight while it was running, but as you can see in the second video, we have a bulkhead leaking, :mad: and NO clue why. No cracks in the tank, it is coming out between the nut and the thread and seeping directly by the tank too. We took it apart and everything looks fine. Any other suggestions?

Sorry - I was not taking a video of the dursos on purpose, but hopefully you can get an idea. If not, I will take another tomorrow. Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down.

Also - we turned the elbow upside down, and drilled a hole in the upper elbow on the other side - and it worked SO much better! The water level is also WAY more consistent! Still thinking we may need to add a "t" on the water side of the tank because the level is a little above the pipe. And find a way to do an emergency drain . . . but the bulkhead is first concern.

(Sorry - I look terrible - I have been sick all day and still trying to get this tank ready).

Bulkhead leak - This was before we turned the elbow and re-tightened the bulkhead, but it is doing the same thing.

The majority of bulkhead issues with that kind of leak are caused by either mold lines on the threaded portion that allows water to run past the rubber gasket, and/or an issue with the gasket itself. Cheaper bulkheads often have this problem - I went through a bunch when I was ordering them from eBay/Amazon.

Turning the elbow upside down works great and would have been my suggestion as well - it keeps air bubbles out of the siphon and lets you drain more water out of the tank in case of an issue.

Good luck on feeling better - the whole house here as the creeping crud and the subzero temps arent helping much

Flippers4pups · Jan 4, 2018

Mini Coop said:
I just happened to take a video tonight while it was running, but as you can see in the second video, we have a bulkhead leaking, :mad: and NO clue why. No cracks in the tank, it is coming out between the nut and the thread and seeping directly by the tank too. We took it apart and everything looks fine. Any other suggestions?

Sorry - I was not taking a video of the dursos on purpose, but hopefully you can get an idea. If not, I will take another tomorrow. Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down.

Also - we turned the elbow upside down, and drilled a hole in the upper elbow on the other side - and it worked SO much better! The water level is also WAY more consistent! Still thinking we may need to add a "t" on the water side of the tank because the level is a little above the pipe. And find a way to do an emergency drain . . . but the bulkhead is first concern.

(Sorry - I look terrible - I have been sick all day and still trying to get this tank ready).

Bulkhead leak - This was before we turned the elbow and re-tightened the bulkhead, but it is doing the same thing.

Gasket on wet side, right? If so try flipping the gasket. Just hand tight.

Mini Coop · Jan 4, 2018

Flippers4pups said:
Gasket on wet side, right? If so try flipping the gasket. Just hand tight.

Yes - gasket on wet side. I will try flipping it tomorrow.

Time for bed and sleep away this CRUD!

Flippers4pups · Jan 4, 2018

"Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down."

Increase the air hole size on the top of each durso. The random "whoosh" could be from not enough air mixing with the water going down the pipe.

Also, down stairs, were your piping makes a left turn, any horizontal run (level or near level to the floor) may trap air at the elbows. This could also cause a "whoosh" as water backs up behind the air pocket until the weight of the water forces the air out, thus the "whoosh" sound. Slant these downward slightly to eliminate any horizontal levelness.

Mini Coop · Jan 5, 2018

Flippers4pups said:
"Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down."

Increase the air hole size on the top of each durso. The random "whoosh" could be from not enough air mixing with the water going down the pipe.

Also, down stairs, were your piping makes a left turn, any horizontal run (level or near level to the floor) may trap air at the elbows. This could also cause a "whoosh" as water backs up behind the air pocket until the weight of the water forces the air out, thus the "whoosh" sound. Slant these downward slightly to eliminate any horizontal levelness.

I asked about the 90 degree angle, but a friend who has a 300 put it together, and said it would be fine . . . UGH. Everything is glued now. Do you think the elbows will be ok for now? If not, we have to cut pipe and re-do things. I can try to increase the hole at the top first. I have been a little afraid of doing any kind of flow control with the main drains (closing off the ball valve) just in case something were to get stuck in one.

Going to try to flip the gasket on the bulkhead today. I didn't think it was a cheap one - I got it at the LFS that drilled it for me.

cycled123 · Jan 5, 2018

Flippers4pups said:
"Not really a toilet flushing - just random whooshes of air coming down."

Increase the air hole size on the top of each durso. The random "whoosh" could be from not enough air mixing with the water going down the pipe.

Also, down stairs, were your piping makes a left turn, any horizontal run (level or near level to the floor) may trap air at the elbows. This could also cause a "whoosh" as water backs up behind the air pocket until the weight of the water forces the air out, thus the "whoosh" sound. Slant these downward slightly to eliminate any horizontal levelness.

Mini Coop I hope you feel better soon! Sorry to hijack a little but I wanted to thank Flippers4pups for the plumbing advice. I will be plumbing my new tank at the end of the month

Flippers4pups · Jan 5, 2018

cycled123 said:
Mini Coop I hope you feel better soon! Sorry to hijack a little but I wanted to thank Flippers4pups for the plumbing advice. I will be plumbing my new tank at the end of the month

Your welcome.

Flippers4pups · Jan 5, 2018

Mini Coop said:
I asked about the 90 degree angle, but a friend who has a 300 put it together, and said it would be fine . . . UGH. Everything is glued now. Do you think the elbows will be ok for now? If not, we have to cut pipe and re-do things. I can try to increase the hole at the top first. I have been a little afraid of doing any kind of flow control with the main drains (closing off the ball valve) just in case something were to get stuck in one.

Going to try to flip the gasket on the bulkhead today. I didn't think it was a cheap one - I got it at the LFS that drilled it for me.

Okay. Let us know what happens. Hope you feel better soon!

Mini Coop · Jan 5, 2018

cycled123 said:
Mini Coop I hope you feel better soon! Sorry to hijack a little but I wanted to thank Flippers4pups for the plumbing advice. I will be plumbing my new tank at the end of the month

Not hijacking at all!! I’m so so thankful as well and hope that my mistakes through trial and error help someone else! That’s what it is all about!!

@Flippers4pups - it has been an annoying morning.
Positives:
**I’m feeling semi-human - so that is great! One positive!
**The water level has equalized with the upside down elbow in the glass sump.

We turned the gasket the other way, cleaned around the hole - but no luck. It is still leaking the exact same way. No clue why. Everything looks fine. So we are going with a bad bulkhead. The good news is that we just have to get a new elbow, and we are going to use the threaded union side of that ball valve that came with it to replace that so I don’t have to buy a brand new 2” ball valve - it’s expensive! Lol. So, we will re-do that today. The upside down elbow has been perfect for the water level staying consistent! So at least that part is fixed. We had the drain valves closed off a bit, and even when we opened them all of the way, the level stayed the same, so I’m excited about that!

We found another very slow leak in one of the returns. Like the pvc just didn't get glued all the way into the union for the ball valve. The good news is that we should just be able to silicone around the edge and solve the leak. But we will keep a close eye on it!

Questions:
1. Where should I put my ATO? I have had suggestions to put it in the black trough as well as the glass sump. Which do you recommend and why?
2. Probes for apex should be fine in the glass sump, correct? Do you put anything on your probes so they aren't just floating around? d
3. I plan on having one 500w heater in the black trough and one in the glass sump for consistency. Sound ok? If so, where should temp probe go or does it matter?
4. I think I read this is ok - but I have an apex power bar upstairs and one downstairs. I can use an aquabus cable to connect the first bar to the second and the second to the brain, and be able to control all 16 outlets, correct? Daisy chain them together - just making sure.

Ok - I think that is all. Time to shower.

Oh yeah - my fish look awesome - probably some of the most healthy fish I have ever gotten! And the shrimp and one goby that I dropped on the concrete floor are all good, and everyone is eating really well!!
Questions:
1. Anything specific I need to feed for the red banded shrimp?
2. I decided not to put a dish of sand in for the goby's/shrimp as to not waste it if I don't need to. Will they be ok for 6 weeks without sand?

ksfulk · Jan 5, 2018

Mini Coop said:
Questions:
1. Where should I put my ATO? I have had suggestions to put it in the black trough as well as the glass sump. Which do you recommend and why?
2. Probes for apex should be fine in the glass sump, correct? Do you put anything on your probes so they aren't just floating around? d
3. I plan on having one 500w heater in the black trough and one in the glass sump for consistency. Sound ok? If so, where should temp probe go or does it matter?
4. I think I read this is ok - but I have an apex power bar upstairs and one downstairs. I can use an aquabus cable to connect the first bar to the second and the second to the brain, and be able to control all 16 outlets, correct? Daisy chain them together - just making sure.

Here's my answers based on my experiences with a similar system, so take them as you will.

1.) I would put the sensor for the ATO in the same chamber as your return pump. This chamber should not fluctuate in water level. Having it too far upstream (say if something were to clog) your stock tank might run dry (probably not) but the sensor would not trigger. Its a rediculous example, but typical recommendation should be in the same chamber as the return. I cant recall if its all external or not in your set up, but thats my recommendation.

2.) I like this one for a probe holder as the magnet is pretty robust and you can use it for just about any sized probe if you add/remove the rubber plug. I run two temp probes on my tank. One of them is near the heaters and the other is in the chamber before the heaters. This tells me what the temp of the water is at its coolest (right before it gets back to the heater) and what the temp is at the heater (I use this to monitor if the heaters get stuck on/off). I would suggest the temp probe in whatever area you think will be the coolest in the tank, so you are heating the water to the correct "overall" temperature. Then spot center the DT/refugium/etc with a cheap IR thermometer over a few days to know what your normal fluctuation is at those points. On my big system, the DT was about 1.2 degrees cooler than the sump year round.

3.) I ran a 500w Finnex titanium heater and a 300w Eheim Jager on my 300 system and didnt have much of an issue. The only thing I did change was that I put the stock tank on a piece of pink insulation, so the cold concrete floor didnt suck all of the heat out of my system. You might be too far along for that, but still might have a chance to insulate it a bit from the cold. I think its like $7 a sheet at the big box stores and probably kept me from running the heaters 24/7 in the winters here. 2- 500s are fine, but if you put them in two places, you'll want to monitor temps around each. I had both of mine in the stock tank and had no issues - just set the on/off temps a bit staggered.

4.) Yes. The only thing you couldnt do that to would be if you were using the 1LINK module or power from the new EB8s "special ports" to power pumps or other things - since its replacing a power cable, those lines must be run seperately.

Mini Coop · Jan 5, 2018

Alright. We have a plan for the leaking bulkhead:
Step 1: try thread tape on the current bulkhead, adjust it one more time, and tighten with wrench (obviously being very careful not to crack the tank).
Step 2: if this doesn’t work, we have a new bulkhead, but all threaded and will require several adaptors. We will have to cut the current pipes off and start over. But we have the equipment to do so.

Hubby made progress on the enclosure and wall for the apex mount too!

Mini Coop · Jan 5, 2018

UPDATE - Yes I am crazy! Figured a video would be fun. Still need a few things, but we are in business!

Flippers4pups · Jan 5, 2018

Looks overall AWESOME!

Looks like the water level in the overflow fluctuates a little, up and down. Right? Opening up the air vent diameter may help this.

The other noise coming from the overflows is the water falling down inside the through the weir's. "Trickling" sound. The reason that happens is the height of the durso's. Raising the pipe is the one way to stop this from happening. If glued, you have to live with it, redo the stand pipes or increase the flow into the DT.

The imbalance in each overflow is tuff to equalize, due to the path each takes to the sump. One is shorter than the other. Makes sense, one has less restriction than the other. I'm a BIG advocate for not having any valves on any drains for reasons of blockage. If one drains more than the other, so be it. Remember it's all going down to the sump anyway.

ATO needs to be on your tub. It's the only water level that will fluctuate in your system.