New Additions Dying At High Rate In Mature System

[RMS18]

The purge doesn't kill AEFW, it interrupts the life cycle of some, but it didn't work. I don't see it causing deaths 3+ months after the last dose. Plus no other users have reported death of fish with use.

 

[DrZoidburg]

What about water changes? How many have you done after icp test?

 

[DrZoidburg]

Not finding much to suggest yet that these levels would cause death in 2 week intervals at reef ph. However 10 Ug/l Is considered a "trigger value". I would at least do water change maybe and run carbon If incase A:chromium is an issue B: the flatworms do have toxins C: the flatworm meds do have adverse effects. If you keep losing fish it maybe something else.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

So I spoke with another vendor today who qt's. He said I can't blame myself or Marine collectors. He said the quality of fish that are coming in are not good. Divers are using poison to catch them more, as supply is declining in some parts. In addition fish are not being shipped as quickly due to the lack of direct flights, so they are spending 3-4 days in transport. He is seeing a much high mortality rate when his shipments come in. Then most are treating the fish under qt which is also stressing them then shipping once they are done. He holds the fish for 30 days min now to make sure they have time to destress. Doesn't cover what happened to the og's. In addition he ships 1.023- 1.024. that should work out well, I'm not sure what marine collectors ship in, they don't have it posted that I could find on their site.

I think it would be useful to at least ask Marine Collectors what their shipping salinity is.

I went back and re-read the thread. I don't see anything that would change my 10/25 initial comments. Ultimately, I think this is resulting from a mixture of reasons, there isn't a single commonality. Sometimes, these issues also work synergistically - shipping damage brings out disease, chronic disease kills older fish, etc.

There are some issues that no quarantine process can take care of; Uronema, viral issues, Myxosporidians and nematodes. All are internal diseases that cannot really be treated. There was a preponderance of wrasse loss here - that could be because you had a lot of wrasses, but they are also high on the list of a type of fish that develops mysterious fish loss that takes out a whole group.

Since you don't have a treatable issue that I can see, all I can suggest is what others have said; do water changes in case the chromium is part of the problem, and then just let the tank run until things settle down, or until a treatable symptom shows up. @DrZoidburg suggested metronidazole. I've never added that to a reef tank, but if it is reef safe, then that would be an option.

Jay

 

[RMS18]

What about water changes? How many have you done after icp test?

After the ICP, I have changed about 200 gallons worth.

 

[RMS18]

Not finding much to suggest yet that these levels would cause death in 2 week intervals at reef ph. However 10 Ug/l Is considered a "trigger value". I would at least do water change maybe and run carbon If incase A:chromium is an issue B: the flatworms do have toxins C: the flatworm meds do have adverse effects. If you keep losing fish it maybe something else.

Last week I stopped the kz coral program, and kz fws. I do run a few table spoons of carbon always. I guess we will see over the next few weeks what goes on. I'm not adding any fish for now until things settle.

 

[wonroc]

Its terror like this any many others that made me just run a nano tank. If something goes wrong, i can completely break down the tank , clean it and refill it in two hours

 

[DrZoidburg]

added that to a reef tank

I have but would advise against some inverts. Shrimp maybe a definite no. I would also take them out into another tank if unsure. If worried about corals I could provide you with research paper used to treat diseases in sps corals. Also some people use this for brown jelly disease in lps.

 

[RMS18]

I have but would advise against some inverts. Shrimp maybe a definite no. I would also take them out into another tank if unsure. If worried about corals I could provide you with research paper used to treat diseases in sps corals. Also some people use this for brown jelly disease in lps.

Tank is full of SPS and some lps. Inverts, shrimp, crabs, snails, and urchins. I think I'll dose if I lose another og over the next month. If all good in a month then I think it's safe to say I'm out of the clear.

 

[DrZoidburg]

I think it would be wise to wait. Hopefully just wc will work. Not seeing anything obvious now except a few things mentioned in hole. The thing that does strike me is chromium/possible toxins. Most of what I read says It causes long term internal damage. Not like what your seeing. However the 10ug/l trigger level could be lowered by other factors. It is hard to know for sure.

 

[Jubei2006]

That's called "glass surfing". It can be a sign of stress. I can't tell you what the stressor might be though. To be honest, I don't have a lot of experience with this issue because all of my tanks are opaque on the back and sides. You could try draping the areas where the fish are doing with with black plastic.

Jay

My fish do this from time to time in a 500 gallon. My largest fish is a 5 to 6 inch Desarjini Sailfin. When I have introduced new fish I put up a mirror to direct their attention away from the newcomers. It makes the behavior much worse as the wrasses flash themselves in the mirror (which is absolutely stunning to watch), and the tangs tail flag each other. My tank is 4 side viewable, and they only do it on one end normally. I believe at least in my case they are catching reflections of themselves in the glass to initiate the behaviour.

 

[RMS18]

Interesting... I was approached by another member in a pm who stated he bought a bunch a few wrasses, tangs, firefish, and basslets from Marine collectors, and lost 8 fish only 1 being a wrasse. In addition he picked them up, so shipping stress can be eliminated from that members scenario.

 

[RMS18]

My fish do this from time to time in a 500 gallon. My largest fish is a 5 to 6 inch Desarjini Sailfin. When I have introduced new fish I put up a mirror to direct their attention away from the newcomers. It makes the behavior much worse as the wrasses flash themselves in the mirror (which is absolutely stunning to watch), and the tangs tail flag each other. My tank is 4 side viewable, and they only do it on one end normally. I believe at least in my case they are catching reflections of themselves in the glass to initiate the behaviour.

Yea mine are only doing it on one side of the tank as well. Just weird to have never seen them do this until all this craziness has occurred.

 

[Jubei2006]

Some thoughts I had after reading Marine Collectors website about their quarantine. 1) Copper for 14 days at 2.5 to 2.9. Pretty high if I remember, and short. Think Jay can chime in, but aren't wrasses somewhat copper sensitive? 2) They say 100% water change every 3 to 5 days while in conditioning/quarantine , and that the fish are put into holding tanks while cleaning. 3) They look for a 14 day clean quarantine, or 14 days of not showing disease. 4) Quarantine is 14 to 30 days? If they source a fish and only hold it for14 days, cyanide toxicosis may occur after it's out of their hands. If they're putting fish in holding tanks #1 and moving them every 3 to 5 days, how does that decrease chances of cross contamination and stress. In my experience, wrasses don't do well with TTM and constant handling. Their quarantine process is written on their website under the home tab why us. Also I don't know what salinity they are shipped at which could cause additional stress. I'll conclude this by saying #1 I only have a hobbyist level of fishkeeping, am by no means an expert, and no basis/reason to criticize. I hope it's not taken as such.

 

[RMS18]

We made it two weeks with no deaths, the longest yet and all fish seem "better". Going to give it much more time before adding new fish in from a different vendor.