New Fauna Marine AEFW X

jda

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^ You just have to let this go. I have pretty much stopped posting about this and all of the info is out there, but I do help people in PMs. I still get too many nasty emails from people who apparently cannot read, cannot comprehend or follow directions that get mad at me because their attempt at eradication did not work in less time or doing different things than what other people have posted - most expected immediate death and did not read that this interrupts lifecycles and you have to wait for the large ones to all die childless (even though it is on the first page)... and that it can take up to 6 months for all of this to happen. In the posts that I have laid out, the patient zero tank is still AEFW free along with at least a hundred others who have offered thanks. There have a been a few that appear to have followed everything 100%, but those are like a couple in a hundred and they are still happy with the results because their tank has come back to life. FWIW - these comments are just general since I don't advocate and never used AEFW-X since the double dose of Flatworm Stop did the job on the tank that I worked with and my few friends who needed it.
 
AS

recci

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^ You just have to let this go. I have pretty much stopped posting about this and all of the info is out there, but I do help people in PMs. I still get too many nasty emails from people who apparently cannot read, cannot comprehend or follow directions that get mad at me because their attempt at eradication did not work in less time or doing different things than what other people have posted - most expected immediate death and did not read that this interrupts lifecycles and you have to wait for the large ones to all die childless (even though it is on the first page)... and that it can take up to 6 months for all of this to happen. In the posts that I have laid out, the patient zero tank is still AEFW free along with at least a hundred others who have offered thanks. There have a been a few that appear to have followed everything 100%, but those are like a couple in a hundred and they are still happy with the results because their tank has come back to life. FWIW - these comments are just general since I don't advocate and never used AEFW-X since the double dose of Flatworm Stop did the job on the tank that I worked with and my few friends who needed it.
There is no real proof that what you are saying works and even if your method works it's not really a viable option for most people. Six months to a year is too long, if you have a tank full of expensive Acro's they will all be destroyed or severely damaged by then. It's the same with people claiming they have beaten the worms by binning most of their Acro's and dipping the frags they have left on a regular basis. Sure you will kill the worms that way but you have not beaten them, they beat you because you have had to throw away Acro's to win. I won't let it go because there is NO REAL SOLUTION!
 

recci

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Not trying to be rude but a lot of people have beaten aefw with a little bit of attrition.

My recommendation would be to remove the dying/infested colonies and toss them, just make sure to get the base off of the rock as well. I'd frag a piece of these if they are real expensive or hard to find. With the rest of the stuff I'd cut them up into smaller pieces. By getting rid of the bigger pieces it will be much easier to throw them on some frag rags and dip them once a week.
Yes, this is what I am doing and it has basically destroyed my tank in the process. Most of my SPS was Acro's and they are the only ones I really care about. I don't consider ripping all your corals off the rocks and binning them while keeping a few frags as a win. In this situation, the worms have won and you have had to reboot your tank more or less to beat them. There are no guarantees that you won't get them again in the future and have to go through it all over again. Hence you have to consider is it all really worth it. With the current energy prices in the UK I don't think it is TBH.
 

jda

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I am not saying that his product works at all and this could be a bad thread to post on, but maybe it is a good idea that you give up acropora. Nobody snuck into your home and put these worms in your tank 007 style. You have been presented with real options that do work. Instead you want to post about not having any solutions when there are solutions to never let them into your tank in the first place and also solutions to get rid of them. Valid solutions that you don't like are still valid solutions. If you cannot take any amount of responsibility for how they got there nor follow a plan to get them out because it is too long, then nobody is going to be able to save you with a miracle solution - this hobby, and life in general, does not work like that... so probably better not to keep these things. It is not my fault and I want it fixed now! This is on you 100% and no vendor can dig you out of this and your requests for other hobbyists who have real methods that have helped hundreds have no burden to prove anything just for you. If you want to start using your thumb instead of your finger, you can get out of this, but that is a pretty big paradigm switch.
 

recci

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The way I see it is this is a bit like ICH or velvet. A lot of people get caught out and we all know that the solution is to quarantine your fish and prevent it from ever entering your tank. But this is a hobby it's supposed to be fun not a chore so how many people out there really quarantine their fish.....very very few. I have preached and preached to friends in the reefing community that you must quarantine your fish but they never listen and fish tanks get wiped out. But I don't blame them because as I said it's a hobby, not a chore. The industry needs to come up with reef-safe In-tank treatments for ich that works but if people just keep accepting it and buying more fish they never will. If the big companies involved saw their incomes on the line they would invest the money into the research to solve these issues and come up with effective solutions that do not involve setting up entirely separate tanks and quarantining fish for 12 weeks at a time....I am not saying that I am not responsible I am simply pointing out the hard truths and futility of this hobby. When you really delve into it and understand the hobby properly you realize this is a brutally unforgiving and very expensive and time-consuming hobby that actually has far more cons the pros.
 
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The way I see it is this is a bit like ICH or velvet. A lot of people get caught out and we all know that the solution is to quarantine your fish and prevent it from ever entering your tank. But this is a hobby it's supposed to be fun not a chore so how many people out there really quarantine their fish.....very very few. I have preached and preached to friends in the reefing community that you must quarantine your fish but they never listen and fish tanks get wiped out. But I don't blame them because as I said it's a hobby, not a chore. The industry needs to come up with reef-safe In-tank treatments for ich that works but if people just keep accepting it and buying more fish they never will. If the big companies involved saw their incomes on the line they would invest the money into the research to solve these issues and come up with effective solutions that do not involve setting up entirely separate tanks and quarantining fish for 12 weeks at a time....I am not saying that I am not responsible I am simply pointing out the hard truths and futility of this hobby. When you really delve into it and understand the hobby properly you realize this is a brutally unforgiving and very expensive and time-consuming hobby that actually has far more cons the pros.
Well, that is one opinion. Not sure how widely shared it is on this forum though -- at least among those who have been doing this a while. The people who remember how hard it was "back in the olden days" before we had the kind of equipment, technology and information we do now.
 

jda

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Do people think that there is some miracle cure for Ich, Velvet or AEFW that just has not been developed that is feasible for a company to invest in and make money? Is this like hydrogen cars but The Man just has stifled the inventions. Not everything has an easy cure even with all kinds of money thrown at it, which will never happen for a niche hobby. All of this still boils down to choices and stuff.

Off topic, but I don't really QT fish - I do keep them in a separate tank until they are eating and not skittish... and then in they go. I prefer to have a very established tank with a sandbed with diverse microfauna where any parasite is going to have to fight for their lives to live. Waiting a year or more to keep sensitive fish and then starting with real live rock (and maybe sand) are not popular anymore, but it works and could be a choice that anybody makes. Again, choices that you don't like are not always bad choices. I would not really do this, but you could give me a PBT that is covered in Ich and I could put it into my display and my other fish would not get it. Period. I would never do this, but I would put it into one of my isolation tanks even if other fish were in there, and none of them would get it either. When the tomonts dropped off of the infected fish and fell to the substrate, they would get consumed by the fauna in the tank... and if a few slipped by, which is likely, the fish would be strong enough to fight them off and the cycle would continue. Eradication? Not likely. Effective like in nature? Yup.. People can make these choices, but most of them want to start up their sterile tanks with dry sand and dry/dead rock, buy fish now and then don't understand why it doesn't work out. Like $100 for 10-20 lbs of real live rock and some patience is pretty cheap - I do understand that not everybody has access to real live rock, which sucks.

Caring for living things is definitely a chore. If you decided to care for other things for the fun of it, then you definitely choose wrong. The same goes with dogs, children, etc. They all can be fun, but they are a lot of work too.
 

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Yes, this is what I am doing and it has basically destroyed my tank in the process. Most of my SPS was Acro's and they are the only ones I really care about. I don't consider ripping all your corals off the rocks and binning them while keeping a few frags as a win. In this situation, the worms have won and you have had to reboot your tank more or less to beat them. There are no guarantees that you won't get them again in the future and have to go through it all over again. Hence you have to consider is it all really worth it. With the current energy prices in the UK I don't think it is TBH.
Not sure what to tell you. I totally understand where you're coming from but it sounds like you're throwing in the towel regardless. I've been through this before and it was the only thing that ended up working for me. It sucks tossing grown out colonies but I personally like starting with fresh frags to watch grow. I just had a tank crash and lost a ton of huge colonies but its just part of the hobby some times.

This hobby isn't for everyone, I guess its good you're realizing this sooner rather than later. I personally wouldn't be doing this if it was easy. I love the learning and challenges that come with this hobby.
 
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recci

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Not sure what to tell you. I totally understand where you're coming from but it sounds like you're throwing in the towel regardless. I've been through this before and it was the only thing that ended up working for me. It sucks tossing grown out colonies but I personally like starting with fresh frags to watch grow. I just had a tank crash and lost a ton of huge colonies but its just part of the hobby some times.

This hobby isn't for everyone, I guess its good you're realizing this sooner rather than later. I personally wouldn't be doing this if it was easy. I love the learning and challenges that come with this hobby.
Not fully throwing in the towel maybe just on this tank. Going continue with a smaller more manageable tank. Will see how it goes.
 

recci

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Out of interest what is the required dose of Flatworm exit that will kill AEFW? I saw someone say 30x the dose but surely it can't be that high?

If you did use the required dose what else would it kill? I was thinking maybe I could remove all my fish, snails, and crabs and nuke the tank with a massive dose of Flatworm exit.
 
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