NEW HI98319 Hanna Waterproof Salinity and Temperature Tester

[rbarr110]

Anybody else see that most of the problems here are a lack of understanding the technological differences and how to use an accuracy statement.

Also for all of you “assuming” that your Apex is right you should look up all the problems Apex has with salinity. Not a good reference by any means. And also look up the accuracy statement for the Apex. A reading from an Apex of 35 and 33 from Hanna is within spec and doesn’t indicate a problem with either.

Your other posts following the one quoted doesn't account for my results, where the common low readings also happen to be with the Hannah calibration fluid. All readings were taken over 20-30 minutes using the same 16 oz. sample of tank water.
4 tools that measure very close to each other except when Hanna calibration fluid is used on the 2 tools that are conductivity based. I still think it is a calibration fluid issue, or a bad batch of it. I feel like I wasted money on a 25 pack.

NEW HI98319 Hanna Waterproof Salinity and Temperature Tester

When rinsing with RO/DI and drying am I also drying the sensors and temp probe?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Rando]

I calibrated my Hanna with a reference solution from ATI to 35 ppt and have had no problems with the part since then. The last ICP analysis also confirmed the exact salinity.

I also had with Hanna calibration fluid in every second bag of my large pack that they did not calibrate the device to 35 ppt. Always only 34.8 ppt. So, something is wrong with their calibration fluid!

 

[Jamie7907]

Your other posts following the one quoted doesn't account for my results, where the common low readings also happen to be with the Hannah calibration fluid. All readings were taken over 20-30 minutes using the same 16 oz. sample of tank water.
4 tools that measure very close to each other except when Hanna calibration fluid is used on the 2 tools that are conductivity based. I still think it is a calibration fluid issue, or a bad batch of it. I feel like I wasted money on a 25 pack.

NEW HI98319 Hanna Waterproof Salinity and Temperature Tester

When rinsing with RO/DI and drying am I also drying the sensors and temp probe?

www.reef2reef.com

Calibration fluid could potentially be the issue. Just as likely could be the user, no offense but you don’t seem to understand what I said, or what Hanna posted. If the Hanna has an accuracy of +/- 1 ppt then 35ppt could read from 34 to 36. I haven’t found the accuracy statement from Apex but I would assume that it’s the same 1 ppt. From just the variance there you could realistically expect one to read 34 and the other 36 and both be within their respective tolerances. And this doesn’t take into account that out of the box your Apex doesn’t compensate for temperature which can add another.75 or more to the spread between them.

I think you came into this as many others have expecting it to read exactly what your Apex does even though it’s had serious problems with salinity readings for years, even to the point that they lied to everyone and told them that the salinity probe had to be dry for 24 hours before you could calibrate it. That’s from their rep Paul to me personally.

I saw the same thing when the Alkatronic and KHD came out, people were freaking out they they didn’t read the same exact thing as their Hanna meters so people corrected the output to match the Hannas not understanding that the same principal applies. In the end while accuracy is important precision ie; the ability to get the same result repeatedly from the same sample is more important because it provides for stability which is far more important than whether your tank is at 34 or 36.

Now for what it’s worth I’ve been able to test over 20 of the Hanna all checkers against a known certified value and the tend to read .7 dkh high, still within the stated tolerances but could lead to a low dkh. The salinity probes could all tend to lean one way or the other but it doesn’t help when people don’t understand the technology yet think they do and come into it with preconceived notions of how it should be. It does a disservice to the device, the company and the user.

You like many others came wanting it to read 35 because that’s what you expected. When it didn’t you got upset. It very well could be that you calibration fluid is bad, Hanna has experienced that before with other units but they are a reputable company and owned up to it. It’s just as likely that the reading despite not being what you expected was correct. In any case what’s more important was that it gave you the same result every time whether that number was 32 or 35. Know what the number is for your system and keep it there.

 

[siggy]

Floating bulb hydrometer would seem to be a old school solution and standard to check electronics. If you get a good one

 

[JS_racer]

my issue was calibrating, the tester read 35ppt, then rechecking the sample it read low but say 2 points, so 32 or 33 now. sample maintaining same temp.

for example calibrating a ph probe, when done, recheck in sample, it reads the same as stated on the calibration packet, (keeping the temp the same, not splitting hairs)

now when i calibrated in tank water, it read as expected every time, but at that time i am telling it what to read. this is with a calibrated refractometer, with new calibration solution, capped tight, stored in 2 small freezer bags.

seems strange some say it reads a couple points low, and others say they calibrate great and stay there.
i blow through a ton of calibrating packets trying to dial it in, calibrated at 35ppt, that solution retested read low, new calibration packet also read low,.....
tried 2 testers, but this was back when they were first introduced. Others from that time frame had theirs replaced and they read great. mine both read the same, and i was charged a restocking fee, both temperature on the units also read like 1.5 degree different if i recall,

i really liked the ease and form factor, and this has sparked my interest again ,

 

[NeverlosT]

I guess the questions for me are:

If we know that due to organics and such, the Hanna conductivity meter will read lower than a refractometer on the same tank water sample, which is the standard we should use? Do we still shoot for 1.024-1.026? If we use Hanna do we now shoot for 1.023-1.024? Is the error present in all of these making them only useful to tell when something is really off?

 

[Surfside74]

Hello. I have a question. I have a Hannah salinity tester unit. I have found that this unit is almost 2 ppt off compared to my refractometer. Why is this? I have gone through all of the calibration packets and it is still off. I did calibrate my refractometer again to verify. Can you provide some insight as to why this happens and how to fix it? Should I go by the refractometer or the Hannah numbers. Thank you.

 

[rbarr110]

I think you came into this as many others have expecting it to read exactly what your Apex does even though it’s had serious problems with salinity readings for years, even to the point that they lied to everyone and told them that the salinity probe had to be dry for 24 hours before you could calibrate it. That’s from their rep Paul to me personally.

I came into this expecting it to read within the range of several devices I tested it against, not just the APEX. I don't use the APEX to mix saltwater, I use it to monitor changes in my tank. I use the APEX as a comparison for the Hanna since they are both conductivity based. The Hanna tester did read in the range of the other devices, but not if I used the Hanna calibration fluid, why I think the Hanna fluid is bad.

When my APEX, hand held refractometer, and milwaukee refractomenter all calibrate to within 0.5 ppt of each other, why would I trust the one piece of equipment that can't match the results of 3 other tools when also calibrated? Based on my experience, if I mixed water with the Hanna to 35ppt, I am likely closer to 38.

I think Hanna makes great products that I do trust and have compared against other test kits, and have great results. This one is just disappointing.

 

[dumpysauce]

I am getting reading way off from my refractometer as well. This is on a brand new tank. So there is only saltwater, rock and sand. It reads 35 ppt, while the refractometer reads 40. Refractomer is calibrated with 35ppt fluid.

I tried 2 ways of calibrating the Hanna, one with the included packet at room temp, and one with the included packet at tank temp (floated in sump for a few hours before calibrating).

I also tested on some freshly made salt water in a water storage bin, so no rocks or sand or anything. and the readings are still inconsistent.

anyone have any thoughts or solutions for this?

 

[shred5]

I am getting reading way off from my refractometer as well. This is on a brand new tank. So there is only saltwater, rock and sand. It reads 35 ppt, while the refractometer reads 40. Refractomer is calibrated with 35ppt fluid.

I tried 2 ways of calibrating the Hanna, one with the included packet at room temp, and one with the included packet at tank temp (floated in sump for a few hours before calibrating).

I also tested on some freshly made salt water in a water storage bin, so no rocks or sand or anything. and the readings are still inconsistent.

anyone have any thoughts or solutions for this?

I find most refractometer calibration fluid is off. Temps also can swing them. I trust my hanna.

 

[infinite0180]

I stopped using the hanna packets. I now make my own calibration solution using Dr RHF’s formula. Its very simple if you buy a decent scale off amazon!

 

[clm65]

I am getting reading way off from my refractometer as well. This is on a brand new tank. So there is only saltwater, rock and sand. It reads 35 ppt, while the refractometer reads 40. Refractomer is calibrated with 35ppt fluid.

I tried 2 ways of calibrating the Hanna, one with the included packet at room temp, and one with the included packet at tank temp (floated in sump for a few hours before calibrating).

I also tested on some freshly made salt water in a water storage bin, so no rocks or sand or anything. and the readings are still inconsistent.

anyone have any thoughts or solutions for this?

If your Hanna is brand new, or at least the battery is brand new, this probably won't help, but I recently had a problem with my Hanna being quite a bit off when compared to a calibrated refractometer as well as a Tropic Marin Hydrometer (which I believe is the most reliable). I swapped out the battery with a brand new one, and the reading is now spot on. I don't know if something reset when the battery was removed, or the Hanna is really that sensitive to battery condition, but something made it work better. Note that the Hanna gives you battery condition when you first power it on. I'm not sure what condition it indicated, but I don't think it said it was low.

Edit: my bad - I have a Milwaukee, not a Hanna. Must have had too much eggnog...sorry.

 

[dumpysauce]

I find most refractometer calibration fluid is off. Temps also can swing them. I trust my hanna.

interesting. ive always used the 35ppt fluid. out of curiosity I calibrated to 0 using fresh rodi water. After i did that the reading went down about 2 ppt. which makes the Hanna within about 1-2 ppt instead of the 3-4 ppm

I stopped using the hanna packets. I now make my own calibration solution using Dr RHF’s formula. Its very simple if you buy a decent scale off amazon!

ill have to look into this. thanks.

If your Hanna is brand new, or at least the battery is brand new, this probably won't help, but I recently had a problem with my Hanna being quite a bit off when compared to a calibrated refractometer as well as a Tropic Marin Hydrometer (which I believe is the most reliable). I swapped out the battery with a brand new one, and the reading is now spot on. I don't know if something reset when the battery was removed, or the Hanna is really that sensitive to battery condition, but something made it work better. Note that the Hanna gives you battery condition when you first power it on. I'm not sure what condition it indicated, but I don't think it said it was low.

its brand new. the battery says 95% since ive been using it a lot haha. it started at 100%

 

[infinite0180]

interesting. ive always used the 35ppt fluid. out of curiosity I calibrated to 0 using fresh rodi water. After i did that the reading went down about 2 ppt. which makes the Hanna within about 1-2 ppt instead of the 3-4 ppm

ill have to look into this. thanks.

its brand new. the battery says 95% since ive been using it a lot haha. it started at 100%

Its very simple. Take Mortins table salt and bake some at 350 for 30 min in oven (this is optional but easy enough). Add 3.29g of the salt to a clean container and then pour enough rodi water to make it 100g total weight. Stir and use to calibrate. Here is the article explaining how to make one for a refractometer, a hydrometer, as well as the conductivity meter.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

 

[dumpysauce]

Its very simple. Take Mortins table salt and bake some at 350 for 30 min in oven (this is optional but easy enough). Add 3.29g of the salt to a clean container and then pour enough rodi water to make it 100g total weight. Stir and use to calibrate. Here is the article explaining how to make one for a refractometer, a hydrometer, as well as the conductivity meter.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-06/rhf/index.php

I looked around and i only have "low sodium salt" haha, whatever that means. Ill have to go pick up some normal salt.

Out of curiosity i used my refractometer calibration fluid on the hanna. It read about 2ppt low. I calibrated the hanna to that, and then tested the tank. It did read higher at about 36ppt, but was still 2ppt lower than the refractometer. Might be within the margin of error for both devices?

One more thing I tested was this:
The hanna reads my tank 35 ppt. According to my salt mix (pro-reef), 35ppt would mix to a dkh of 7-8 and calcium of 430-450. I tested both these values, and both were higher than what was to be expected. dkh was 8.4, and calcium was 540.
Again this is a brand new tank that just finished its cycle, with no livestock.

That leads me to believe the hanna does indeed report low. given that the 2 test kits (hanna models) and the refractometer all show suggest predictable results. I will continue to test and experiment.

 

[infinite0180]

I looked around and i only have "low sodium salt" haha, whatever that means. Ill have to go pick up some normal salt.

Out of curiosity i used my refractometer calibration fluid on the hanna. It read about 2ppt low. I calibrated the hanna to that, and then tested the tank. It did read higher at about 36ppt, but was still 2ppt lower than the refractometer. Might be within the margin of error for both devices?

One more thing I tested was this:
The hanna reads my tank 35 ppt. According to my salt mix (pro-reef), 35ppt would mix to a dkh of 7-8 and calcium of 430-450. I tested both these values, and both were higher than what was to be expected. dkh was 8.4, and calcium was 540.
Again this is a brand new tank that just finished its cycle, with no livestock.

That leads me to believe the hanna does indeed report low. given that the 2 test kits (hanna models) and the refractometer all show suggest predictable results. I will continue to test and experiment.

Its to be expected that refractometer standard reads about 2 ppt low on a conductivity probe. That article explains why. My Hanna was indeed reading low as well. my tank was over 37ppt and i was reading 35ppt. i was struggling to keep some coral happy and my fish always seemed a bit stressed even though they are healthy and disease free. Now that i make my own standard and have my tank dialed in my fish seem less stressed and my coral are slowly recovering. Im done buying Hanna's packets. I love their products and them as a company but i do not trust the calibration solution. Same with my refractometer, im throwing away any of those BRS juice bottles and making my own with dry salt. there is just too much variability in mass production.

 

[dumpysauce]

Its to be expected that refractometer standard reads about 2 ppt low on a conductivity probe. That article explains why. My Hanna was indeed reading low as well. my tank was over 37ppt and i was reading 35ppt. i was struggling to keep some coral happy and my fish always seemed a bit stressed even though they are healthy and disease free. Now that i make my own standard and have my tank dialed in my fish seem less stressed and my coral are slowly recovering. Im done buying Hanna's packets. I love their products and them as a company but i do not trust the calibration solution. Same with my refractometer, im throwing away any of those BRS juice bottles and making my own with dry salt. there is just too much variability in mass production.

I made some calibration solution per the link you provided. Good read.

I calibrated both the hanna and refractometer to the new 35 ppt formula. (it was almost exactly accurate to the refractometer calibration fluid I was using).

So both devices measured the exact same (35ppt) on the home made calibration fluid. Here is the interesting part, when I tested the tank water again, the hanna still read over 3 ppt low.

My tank water does have some nitrate and phospate from the cycle. This is leaning my thinking to the organics in the water do indeed affect the hanna and causes it to read low.

in my past tanks i always used refractometers, i thought with this new tank that id try the hanna, but im starting to think its not a good product because 3-4 ppt off is a pretty big difference.

 

[dumpysauce]

My latest test. Sorry to spam the thread.

So I took some tank water out in a cup. I then added fresh water until the refractometer read that tank water at 35 ppt. Made sure the refractometer was calibrated to the 35 ppt fluid.

Then I calibrated the hanna to that new tank water that was at 35ppt.

This made both tools match on the tank water. I then measured the actual tank water with them both and they are within 1ppt in the actual tank.

Im thinking the extra stuff in tank water (ie. organics) can mess up the reading/calibration due to the method it uses the measure the salinity. where as the refractometer isn't effected by the organics.

I also tested on my auto top off barrel. Both tools got the exact same reading. Which is interesting as its only saltwater. maybe brand of salt/ extra trace elements in our salt mixes has something to do with the readings?

interestingly, this new way of calibrating made the two tools have not the same readings on the water and table salt mixture. In this case the readings are off by the same amounts that the tank was previously.

the question now is what calibration method to trust and what tool to trust on the calibration.

Maybe ill drive over to the ocean to test on real sea water haha....

 

[shred5]

Or maybe it is the Salinity tester does temperature compensation and your refractometer doesn't.

 

[dumpysauce]

Or maybe it is the Salinity tester does temperature compensation and your refractometer doesn't.

Possibly. The refractometer supposedly is atc. I also did some tests with the water at room temp, and the measurements didn't change. the Hanna does read the temp about a degree low in the tank (in fahrenheit)