New Naso Tang looking a bit rough and not eating

[Dj City]

Hello,

I got a small(ish) Naso Tang about 3 days ago.
He's not eating. He's showing slight interest in food but not enough to actually eat. I have put nori all over the tank in the hopes he will eat some but no luck yet.

I have yellow tang, sailfin tang and scopia tang in same tank.
They have not bothered him too much. A little harassment at first but it was not bad or relentless. They don't pay him any attention now.

His fins look slightly rough.
His color is darker grey than it should be.
He really doesn't have the "deer white spots" that indicate stress.
He's swimming but not as strongly as he should. Getting blown off course too easily by the powerheads but he's not being blown all around the tank.

He may have a slight case of ich. I practice ich management instead of ich eradication so he's gonna have to get strong enough to fight it.

I have a 180gal display.

Alk..........8.6
Cal.........425
Mag.......1338
Salt........35
Ph..........8
Temp.....77
Orp........310
Nitrate...10ppm
Phos.......0.03

I could use some advice please.
I have not lost a fish in years.

I have a lot of "stuff" floating around in the display. Bubbles and food partials.

Help and good sound advice would be appreciated.

 

[kenchilada]

I’d probably start setting up a separate quarantine tankif you don’t have one going. He does look rough.

 

[Dj City]

Only tank I have available is a 5g tank.

I'm trying to find out what's wrong with him so I can try to figure out how to treat him and what to treat him with.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The 5 gal is too small of course. It does look rough, and I can’t rule out ich. Trouble is, now that it’s in your display, so is any disease it might have. Ich management may not work in this case....
Jay

 

[Dj City]

The 5 gal is too small of course. It does look rough, and I can’t rule out ich. Trouble is, now that it’s in your display, so is any disease it might have. Ich management may not work in this case....
Jay

Thanks for chiming in.
There is, and has been ich in the tank since it was first set up.
Most fish can deal with it as they do in the wild as long as they are healthy and eating. I'm not too worried about ich.

My concern is what else he might have and how to treat whatever that may be.

The 5.5gal is VERY small but the naso is only about 2 inches long. If I had a larger tank, that would be better but I have to use what i've got.

Looking at the pics of the naso, besides a very slight case of ich, do you see anything of concern?
anything I should be treating for?

If I only have to treat with Prazipro, he will be fine in the 5.5 for that short time. I'm not planning to treat ich. I want to get him eating and healthy enough to fight off ich on his own because ich IS present in the display and will remain present.

 

[kenchilada]

Petco, $20 for a 20 gallon tank right now.

You don’t have many good options in the display tank and you won’t treat ich. You still have flukes, worms, internal problems, bacterial infection, viral, fungal issues to worry about... even if you purposely ignore parasites.

Hope he makes it!

 

[Dj City]

Petco, $20 for a 20 gallon tank right now.

You don’t have many good options in the display tank and you won’t treat ich. You still have flukes, worms, internal problems, bacterial infection, viral, fungal issues to worry about... even if you purposely ignore parasites.

Hope he makes it!

Thank you.

Do you see anything specific?
It sounds like you have run a general list of things that fish get sick with.
I don't really want to prophylactically treat for any and all things that "could" be wrong. I would like to treat what IS wrong.

Meds I have on hand are...

PraziPro
Metroplex
Kanaplex
Furan-2
focus (Food Binder)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks for chiming in.
There is, and has been ich in the tank since it was first set up.
Most fish can deal with it as they do in the wild as long as they are healthy and eating. I'm not too worried about ich.

My concern is what else he might have and how to treat whatever that may be.

The 5.5gal is VERY small but the naso is only about 2 inches long. If I had a larger tank, that would be better but I have to use what i've got.

Looking at the pics of the naso, besides a very slight case of ich, do you see anything of concern?
anything I should be treating for?

If I only have to treat with Prazipro, he will be fine in the 5.5 for that short time. I'm not planning to treat ich. I want to get him eating and healthy enough to fight off ich on his own because ich IS present in the display and will remain present.

In looking at the photos again would call that a moderate case of ich (I was working off my phone before). At a certain point, propagule pressure takes over and "ich management" fails. Your naso may be close or past that point, tough to say. It could also have flukes, many new fish carry them when they catch it going through the wholesaler's tanks. I am concerned because even with a moderate case of ich, the fish should still be feeding. I cannot say from just the pictures, why it isn't eating. Live baby brine will often get small fish to begin feeding, and then you can transition them over to other foods.
If the fish is just 2" long, you *might* get away with using the 5 gallon tank, and if so, copper would be the treatment of choice to begin with, after giving it a FW dip to knock any flukes back first. Then, after 2 weeks of copper you would dose with praziquantel 2x to deal with flukes.
My concern is mostly with your existing fish. If they have been infected with ich over time, they probably have some resistance. If the propagule pressure doesn't overwhelm them, they may be o.k. in that regard. Then, the only issue would be flukes that the naso may have brought in. Praziquantel can be dosed in your DT, as long as you increase the aeration. That will kill any feather dusters though.

Jay

 

[Dj City]

In looking at the photos again would call that a moderate case of ich (I was working off my phone before). At a certain point, propagule pressure takes over and "ich management" fails. Your naso may be close or past that point, tough to say. It could also have flukes, many new fish carry them when they catch it going through the wholesaler's tanks. I am concerned because even with a moderate case of ich, the fish should still be feeding. I cannot say from just the pictures, why it isn't eating. Live baby brine will often get small fish to begin feeding, and then you can transition them over to other foods.
If the fish is just 2" long, you *might* get away with using the 5 gallon tank, and if so, copper would be the treatment of choice to begin with, after giving it a FW dip to knock any flukes back first. Then, after 2 weeks of copper you would dose with praziquantel 2x to deal with flukes.
My concern is mostly with your existing fish. If they have been infected with ich over time, they probably have some resistance. If the propagule pressure doesn't overwhelm them, they may be o.k. in that regard. Then, the only issue would be flukes that the naso may have brought in. Praziquantel can be dosed in your DT, as long as you increase the aeration. That will kill any feather dusters though.

Jay

Thank you!

Believe it or not, most of what you see in the pics is just microbubbles and floating particles in the water.

I suspected flukes and internal parasites.
I did not think he had velvet or brook.

I can treat him with the trifecta of kanaplex, mrtroplex and furan-2?

Would I treat with prazi before or after the 3 meds above?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I agree that the fish doesn't seem to have velvet or Brooklynella. Metroplex has some activity against external protozoans, but there are better options (copper and hyposalinity). Kanaplex and Furan-2 are antibiotics, and I'm just not visually seeing a bacterial infection here, so I'm not confident that they will help much. If the naso doesn't have the spots that I think I see in the seventh photo down, and the doesn't have diffuse cloudiness I see on its pectoral fin in other photos, and its skin is clear, then I would revise my diagnosis of ich. Photos are very tough to work with, as you mentioned, spots in the water and on the glass can make it difficult to see clearly.

Jay

 

[Dj City]

I agree that the fish doesn't seem to have velvet or Brooklynella. Metroplex has some activity against external protozoans, but there are better options (copper and hyposalinity). Kanaplex and Furan-2 are antibiotics, and I'm just not visually seeing a bacterial infection here, so I'm not confident that they will help much. If the naso doesn't have the spots that I think I see in the seventh photo down, and the doesn't have diffuse cloudiness I see on its pectoral fin in other photos, and its skin is clear, then I would revise my diagnosis of ich. Photos are very tough to work with, as you mentioned, spots in the water and on the glass can make it difficult to see clearly.

Jay

you are truly helping and I appreciate it!

The spots you see are not really there. I think he has a very mild case of ich.

My plan is to use the kanaplex, metroplex and furnan-2 to treat fungal and parasites. I still want my fish to be able to live with ich because it's a part of their life as a cold is to ours.

He seems to have a hard time pooping. It looks like stringy poo that is not moving as it should.

I need to know if I need to treat with PraziPro before the other meds or after.

Please advise.

 

[Dj City]

Hospital tank is set up.
Water is heated and treated with microbacter 7 and rock.

I'm waiting on guidance before I proceed.

 

[kenchilada]

He seems to have a hard time pooping. It looks like stringy poo that is not moving as it should.

What color is it?

I still want my fish to be able to live with ich because it's a part of their life as a cold is

Interesting. Just curious, why do you consider ich something important to preserve in your tank, but flukes or fungus is something to treat?

 

[Dj City]

What color is it?


Interesting. Just curious, why do you consider ich something important to preserve in your tank, but flukes or fungus is something to treat?

If it's poop i'm seeing, it's clear to white and seems kind of hard. not really stringy.
Look at the pics and you will see what I mean.


Fish have a natural resistance to ich and all fish have ich unless the fish and tank have been treated and ich irradiated.

I don't believe in a sterile tank. Fish need to be able to cope with things that are natural.
If ich gets introduced to a sterile tank, the ich wipes the tank out.

It's like us dealing with a cold or the flu or any number of illnesses vs measles, mumps and things we get vaccinations for.

Ich falls into things lived with. Flukes fall into the category of things to treat. Bacterial infections need to be treated. Flukes tend to bring secondary infections.
Once a fish has resistance to ich, it's not a problem and ich won't kill your fish.

 

[Bepis]

Have you treated all the colors of nori? Don’t stick to one flavor some nasos and tangs like the purple over the green but if he isn’t going for purple I’d try both green and brown

 

[Dj City]

Have you treated all the colors of nori? Don’t stick to one flavor some nasos and tangs like the purple over the green but if he isn’t going for purple I’d try both green and brown

I have green and red nori. He's not interested in either.
I also have Two little fishies sea veggies mixed seaweed flakes.
Still not interested.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I know you can treat praziquantel with metronidazole, and you can treat prazi with kanaplex or furan. The trouble is can you treat with all four at once in a five gallon tank? I can't answer that because I've never done it, but I have some doubts.

If the rock in the picture is seeded with bacteria, that will help control ammonia, which will otherwise be very difficult in that small of a tank.

Don't forget - while you may be managing ich in your display tank, you will NOT be able to manage it in a bare 5 gallon tank, so if the fish has ich, expect the population to grow quickly after you move it over.

Jay

 

[Dj City]

I know you can treat praziquantel with metronidazole, and you can treat prazi with kanaplex or furan. The trouble is can you treat with all four at once in a five gallon tank? I can't answer that because I've never done it, but I have some doubts.

If the rock in the picture is seeded with bacteria, that will help control ammonia, which will otherwise be very difficult in that small of a tank.

Don't forget - while you may be managing ich in your display tank, you will NOT be able to manage it in a bare 5 gallon tank, so if the fish has ich, expect the population to grow quickly after you move it over.

Jay

Good morning,

I am not planning to treat all 4 meds at once. My plan is to treat Metroplex, Kanaplex and Furan-2 at once.
I need to know if I should treat with PraziPro before treating with the other three or after i'm done treating with the other three.

Good call on ich management in a 5 gal tank. I won't be able to contain ich in a tank that small.
Metroplex should help with ich.

 

[Dj City]

I caught the Naso and he is now in the 5.5gal hospital tank.
I have not started any meds yet because i'm not sure which to start with.

Do I treat with prazipro first or should I do the Metroplex+Kanaplex+ Furan-2 first?

To be clear, I am NOT doing all 4 meds at once. It will be 2 separate regiments with water changes between.
I just need to know which regiment to do first.

I am waiting until I get answers before I start.

 

[Dj City]

Here are some clear pics of the little guy.
I don't see ich at all but I think I see the start of a bacterial infection.

I suspect Flukes, Internal parasites and secondary bacterial infection.
He swims but he is a very weak swimmer. He can get caught up in a powerhead. He got caught by the intake of the HOB filter. I don't have the tube thats supposed to be on it so I shut that filter down. I got a small air pump and airstone to keep the tank oxygen levels up. The tank has an internal spillover filter but that won't move surface water enough. The internal filter along with the air pump should provide enough oxygen.