New sulfur denitrator working great!

[Dule T&T]

No problem. Another thing to remember is sulfate build up. I think I came across this issue a couple of times in a forum. For non WC reefer this can be a problem. Uncle google might have the data for you

Wait a sec, is this really a thing?
Why would sulfur build up? Could anyone explain please?

I mean, what's the point of using denitrator if you still need to do tedious water changes which don't really do anything but stress the reef (at least in my case, water change didn't decreased nitrates at all), and cause big expense and plenty work - especially in larger systems like mine?
All elements that get depleted by corals are easily compensated by dosing, which makes WC obsolete.

I didn't change water in my tank last 5 years. Nitrates were always at 10 stable. My corals loved it... they grow like a weed - LPS, SPS.... In the last 2 months nitrates increased for some strange reason to around 20 which is not so bad, but I don't like it... Although maintenance is regular and everything is pristine and healthy. Even tried to do WC for the first time after 5 years and, as I expected, without any results... I was trying for days to figure out did I change something recently and is there any hidden "nitrate factory" in the tank... but, no.... nothing.... no detritus build up in the tank - have only half inch sand for aesthetic reasons... sand is regularly stirred and also detritus blown off rockwork with turkey baster and power head every Sunday..... I even have 2 fish less than before because they were harassing corals, so I removed them...

So I decided to install sulfur denitrator and see what is going to happen. I pretty much ordered the last Korallin denitrator that was available on Marine Depot....

I read plenty about it.... But I didn't see this "sulfur build up" problem until now.

Could anyone confirm if this is true?
Thanks.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Is cleaning this thing basically restarting? Is it best to use all new media? I fear my circ pump isn't running properly because my output was 0 for months but now it's higher than the tank...I feel like the circ pump may not be running well due to the media being clogged... (lots of brown sludge). It's been running at 0 for about 6 months, was really hoping for 2 years as it took my close to 6 months to seed it.

A rinse of the old media would most likely kill the bacteria I am guessing.

 

[Jon_W79]

Is cleaning this thing basically restarting? Is it best to use all new media? I fear my circ pump isn't running properly because my output was 0 for months but now it's higher than the tank...I feel like the circ pump may not be running well due to the media being clogged... (lots of brown sludge). It's been running at 0 for about 6 months, was really hoping for 2 years as it took my close to 6 months to seed it.

A rinse of the old media would most likely kill the bacteria I am guessing.

My recommendation would be to fill a big container with tap water and add aquarium tap water conditioner to remove the chlorine/ chloramine, and use a water pump and hose to clean the media. I don't think the treated tap water itself will harm the bacteria if it is not too hot or cold. I think your SD can start working working normally soon if you do this(the bacteria probably actually prefer water with lower tds than your aquarium). I think my sulfur denitrator recovered quickly from the power being off for 7 hours, from a power outage. I think that your SD will start working good soon if you clean the media with treated tap water.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

Ahh, I was under the impression that once it was exposed to the outside air (taking it out of the reactor) it would kill off most. I will try your method!

 

[ReeferBud]

I would find it extremely unlikely that the bacteria would survive with the method described above.

I've been washing media every 6 months or so for years. Just put it back in the reactor and start the cycle again. Should recolonize within just a few weeks.

 

[Jon_W79]

The bacteria growing in the sulfur denitrator may originate from freshwater (a SD can also be used on a freshwater aquarium). If it does originate from freshwater, I think it will be ok to rinse the media with treated tap water. I don't think bacteria are very sensitive to water chemistry changes, and the bacteria should stay moist if the media is kept out of water for a short time.

 

[nldemo]

I would find it extremely unlikely that the bacteria would survive with the method described above.

I've been washing media every 6 months or so for years. Just put it back in the reactor and start the cycle again. Should recolonize within just a few weeks.

I love that my SD keeps my nitrates in check like a boss, but i don't like that even with my theory of using less media it is still creating that yucky mulm/bacteria die off and causing the house to smell like rotten eggs.
How often is everybody cleaning their denitrators? I took mine down only a couple months ago and it already needs to be cleaned again. Maybe I again used too much media? Right now I'm using about half of the recommended for my aquarium size

 

[ReeferBud]

I love that my SD keeps my nitrates in check like a boss, but i don't like that even with my theory of using less media it is still creating that yucky mulm/bacteria die off and causing the house to smell like rotten eggs.
How often is everybody cleaning their denitrators? I took mine down only a couple months ago and it already needs to be cleaned again. Maybe I again used too much media? Right now I'm using about half of the recommended for my aquarium size

I’ve never gotten the rotten eggs smell.

just don’t ever let the flow in the reactor go too low and you shouldn’t get any rotten eggs.

 

[nldemo]

I’ve never gotten the rotten eggs smell.

just don’t ever let the flow in the reactor go too low and you shouldn’t get any rotten eggs.

It sounds nice in theory, but it didn't take long for my mulm/bacteria/whatever to build back up again.

 

[nldemo]

Has anyone tried these sulfur crystals? More expensive, but maybe more pure?
amazon link

 

[Jon_W79]

Has anyone tried these sulfur crystals? More expensive, but maybe more pure?
amazon link

That stuff dissolves in water, people drink or eat it. I don't believe that will work.

 

[Dule T&T]

After about 5 weeks my effluent Nitrates finally tested 0.
So, the same day I increased the effluent flow from 1 drop per 2 seconds to 1 drop per second.
24 hours later I tested again and result was 0 again.
I was happy that something is finally happening!
So I increased to 2 drops per second.
Tested yesterday and got nitrates level the same as tank! :mad:
As usual, right after gaining some hope disappointment happens!

Is that huge difference between 1 and 2 drops per second normal?

Today I retested and it's still the same high nitrate level.
So I decreased it back to 1 drop per second again to see what will happen.

Also I noticed gas build up in denitrator. I let it out through the gas valve at the top of denitrator...
I still see some small bubbles between media though.
I'm guessing it is Nitrogen?

 

[SecondCityCorals]

After about 5 weeks my effluent Nitrates finally tested 0.
So, the same day I increased the effluent flow from 1 drop per 2 seconds to 1 drop per second.
24 hours later I tested again and result was 0 again.
I was happy that something is finally happening!
So I increased to 2 drops per second.
Tested yesterday and got nitrates level the same as tank! :mad:
As usual, right after gaining some hope disappointment happens!

Is that huge difference between 1 and 2 drops per second normal?

Today I retested and it's still the same high nitrate level.
So I decreased it back to 1 drop per second again to see what will happen.

Also I noticed gas build up in denitrator. I let it out through the gas valve at the top of denitrator...
I still see some small bubbles between media though.
I'm guessing it is Nitrogen?

So, your bacteria level in your anaerobic chamber will only grow enough to eat the amount of nitrates that are available. So if you’re doing 1 drip per second, and the effluent is 0 nitrates. That means your reactor has enough anaerobic bacteria to live off of 1 drop per second of nitrates coming in.

Now, going to two drops per second, youve doubled the amount of nitrates for the bacteria to consume. It’s going to take awhile for the total amount of bacteria to reproduce enough to eat 2 drops per second worth of incoming nitrates.

In short, if you increase the output, it will take awhile for the amount of bacteria to catch up and eat all the nitrates. HOWEVER, you want to be careful enough that you don’t put too much water into the chamber to make the chamber oxygen rich.

Bacteria go from aerobic (oxygen eating) to anaerobic (nitrate eating) when oxygen runs out. So it’s a kind of balance. You want to increase effluent output while still keeping your reactor oxygen starved.

Every time you increase effluent output you have to do it slowly and then wait a few weeks for the bacteria colony to grow larger and eat that much nitrates.

does that help?

 

[JumboShrimp]

My Korallin Sulphur Biodenitrator’s effluent for my FOWLR sat at 160+ ppm Nitrate for it’s initial 5 weeks until I tested again tonight: BAM!! 40 ppm!!

 

[Lasse]

As usual, right after gaining some hope disappointment happens!

Is that huge difference between 1 and 2 drops per second normal?

There is one more thing to mention - beside @SecondCityCorals post

This denitrification method is known to produce nitrite if the process not is in order. Nitrite in the water - even low concentrations - will affect the nitrate readings. If you have - let us say 0.1 mg/L nitrite in the water - your nitrate readings can be between 50 to 100 times off. (you will read between 5 to 10 mg/L too high nitrate concentration depending on test brand.)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

After about 5 weeks my effluent Nitrates finally tested 0.
So, the same day I increased the effluent flow from 1 drop per 2 seconds to 1 drop per second.
24 hours later I tested again and result was 0 again.
I was happy that something is finally happening!
So I increased to 2 drops per second.
Tested yesterday and got nitrates level the same as tank! :mad:
As usual, right after gaining some hope disappointment happens!

Is that huge difference between 1 and 2 drops per second normal?

Today I retested and it's still the same high nitrate level.
So I decreased it back to 1 drop per second again to see what will happen.

Also I noticed gas build up in denitrator. I let it out through the gas valve at the top of denitrator...
I still see some small bubbles between media though.
I'm guessing it is Nitrogen?

Your initial flow is low which means a small comunity of T. denitrificans is present in an anoxic reactor filled with elemental sulfur. One can not use what is not entered.
Then you doubled the flow, not only the nitrate is doubled but also the oxygen. What do you expect? it just needs time; One does NOT need an anoxic kept reactor to export nitrate making use of elemental sulfur. See BADESS
T.denitrificans and other autotrophs growing on a mix of calcium carbonate and elemental sulfur may use carbonate as a carbon source and produce CO2 which may accumulate. Your guess may not be correct.
The outflow should be aerated to stabilize pH and any nitrite present in the effluent will be transformed back to nitrate, Due to the low flow rate not much nitrate can be removed .
ref: MB CMF De Haes 2007-2017

 

[Dule T&T]

Your initial flow is low which means a small comunity of T. denitrificans is present in an anoxic reactor filled with elemental sulfur. One can not use what is not entered.
Then you doubled the flow, not only the nitrate is doubled but also the oxygen. What do you expect? it just needs time; One does NOT need an anoxic kept reactor to export nitrate making use of elemental sulfur. See BADESS
T.denitrificans and other autotrophs growing on a mix of calcium carbonate and elemental sulfur may use carbonate as a carbon source and produce CO2 which may accumulate. Your guess may not be correct.
The outflow should be aerated to stabilize pH and any nitrite present in the effluent will be transformed back to nitrate, Due to the low flow rate not much nitrate can be removed .
ref: MB CMF De Haes 2007-2017

Sir, I was following the instructions that came with Korallin denitrator.
I'm guessing producers of denitrator know what they built, and how to use their own products?
Also after I increased the flow from 1 drop per 2 second to 1 drop per second nitrates were also 0 after only 24 hours. Even though I "doubled the flow" as well.
"Problem" happened after I increased it to 2 drops per second because difference seemed to drastic in comparison to previous increase.
My only question was is that big difference normal.

Anyways, I decreased the flow to about 1.5 drops per second and effluent nitrates look better now.... going to give it more time to reach 0 again....
We'll see how it goes.

 

[Dule T&T]

There is one more thing to mention - beside @SecondCityCorals post

This denitrification method is known to produce nitrite if the process not is in order. Nitrite in the water - even low concentrations - will affect the nitrate readings. If you have - let us say 0.1 mg/L nitrite in the water - your nitrate readings can be between 50 to 100 times off. (you will read between 5 to 10 mg/L too high nitrate concentration depending on test brand.)

Sincerely Lasse

Thanks.
You're right, of course.

I am actually aware of nitrite issue.
Even instruction for denitrator is actually pointing that.
And I did have a nitrite coming out of effluent at the beginning of process when I first time set effluent to 1 drop per 2 seconds.

But I noticed one small difference in reading (at least with salifert Nitrate kit that I'm using)
When I had nitrites, as soon as I added powder and start swirling the solution, it immediately turned dark purple. Reaction was very fast. It literally scared me hahaha
That doesn't happen with Nitrates - with Nitrates it takes few minutes to reach final color.

That's kind of my way to get suspicious about the presence of nitrites and to test them.

 

[Lasse]

When I had nitrites, as soon as I added powder and start swirling the solution, it immediately turned dark purple. Reaction was very fast. It literally scared me hahaha
That doesn't happen with Nitrates - with Nitrates it takes few minutes to reach final color.

Its because the test really measure nitrite - not nitrate. When it is already nitrite in the water - the test react directly - especially with high concentrations but if it is mainly nitrate in the water (and very low amount of nitrite) - it takes a little time for the nitrate present ton be converted into nitrite - please see this video (only in german but I think you understand))

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Sir, I was following the instructions that came with Korallin denitrator.
I'm guessing producers of denitrator know what they built, and how to use their own products?
Also after I increased the flow from 1 drop per 2 second to 1 drop per second nitrates were also 0 after only 24 hours. Even though I "doubled the flow" as well.
"Problem" happened after I increased it to 2 drops per second because difference seemed to drastic in comparison to previous increase.
My only question was is that big difference normal.

Anyways, I decreased the flow to about 1.5 drops per second and effluent nitrates look better now.... going to give it more time to reach 0 again....
We'll see how it goes.

Well, they do not! Most follow rules made for using a carbon based denitrator.

The basic rules for starting up a BADES reactor, published by Longouet, work fine. It was never the intention to limit the flow for keeping the reactor anoxic., below 0.5ppm DO.
Longouet and Co published their results in 1996. MAAO based systems function well having a flow of 10l/h for each liter of sulfur used. MAAO based systems target 0 nitrate in the effluent, which limit the maxiumum flow, and use column reactors. Now we use MBR, moving bed reactors. They advise to use 1% and or 2% reactors.
A good BADES reactor must be big enough!!!! Very important!!!!

Using anoxic kept reactors for BADES is something which lives its own live on the internet.

The reason why I use the name "BADES reactor "is for to distinguish the use of BADES as it was intended from what now is called a "Sulfur Denitrator".
To export a low daily nitrate overproduction of 1ppm maintaining a level of 2ppm the daily flow must be minimal 1/2 the system volume daily. if the daily production increases to 2ppm the flow must be able to double to keep the nitrate reserve level at 2ppm, which means the total system volume passes the reactor daily. For this enough substrate must be used, not only to provide enough space for removing the nitrate but mainly to be able to consume the increasing amount of oxygen entering the reactor. Using a 1% reactor a daily flow of 2x the system volume is possible, still maintaining a 0 nitrate effluent.
if one starts at 20ppm, to reach a level of 2 ppm daily flow needed may be x 10 depending of the daily nitrate overproduction to remove.
Using BADES biofilm reactors 0 nitrate in the effluent is not a target which makes it easy manageable. To lower the level only a bit more as the daily overproduction must be removed daily. One can only remove what is entered.

One does NOT need an anoxic environment for BADES, it takes place in a normal nitrifying biofilm. One just has to add elemental sulfur as a substrate for the biofilm to grow to increase the nitrogen export rate of the biofilm. This in normal aquarium conditions having + 6ppm DO in the surrounding water. see also BADES columns, SPC.

ref:MB BADESS CMF De Haes 2007-2017

Exporting safely stored nitrogen will not solve problems and will not correct the cause of the nutrient unbalance.