New sulfur denitrator working great!

[WVNed]

The last time mine plugged I reloaded them with 1/3 sulfur, 2/3 Seachem Matrix with ARM media over the top.
So far they have survived the fall of the nitrates from 44 to 4 without plugging.
I just let a tiny stream pass through them.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

For a BADES System, in which a sulfur reactor is NOT kept anoxic, at least the same amount of calcium carbonate media as sulfur is used (volume) see BADESS
Using BADES, calcium and carbonate is produced, alk is stabilized. In a reef system produced calcium is consumed. The calcium production in the reactor is in relation with the autotrophic denitrification rate.

For using BADES in a reactor it is essential the reactor is big enough, to be able to remove the same daily nitrate production having a high or a low nitrate level, and enough shell gritt, maerl or and aragonite is used.
There is a good reason to use a reactor having a vomume of at least 1% of the total system volume.

 

[jasonrusso]

thanks for sharing.

I have the TS-3 and when I’ve noticed a lot of gas in the reactor, it’s always been air being sucked in somehow, likely through your dosing pump into the inlet of the reactor. I’d check to ensure you don’t have bubbles getting the reactor and you can check that by looking at where the inlet tube goes into the pre-filter.

there’s no way all that gas is H2S, otherwise you’d definitely know!! If a few bubbles, more likely to be nitrogen from the bacteria breaking down the nitrates.

would highly recommend using an ORP probe, not to chase numbers, but to realize when you have a problem. If flow is too low and ORP goes too negative, the reactor will foul and clog due to mulm formation, and will will get some H2S. If flow is too high and ORP is too high, or if you have air in the reactor like you have now, you won’t achieve the anoxic environment that is needed for the anaerobic bacteria.

I don't think it's air being sucked in, I think it's nitrogen from the reaction. I keep mine at a slight angle to keep the bubbles on the opposite side of the pump.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

would highly recommend using an ORP probe, not to chase numbers, but to realize when you have a problem. If flow is too low and ORP goes too negative, the reactor will foul and clog due to mulm formation, and will will get some H2S. If flow is too high and ORP is too high, or if you have air in the reactor like you have now, you won’t achieve the anoxic environment that is needed for the anaerobic bacteria.

Why?

Dieter Brockman, one of the driving forces behind the Berlin method, said in an interview with Roger Vitko in 2004: “The Internet is as much a curse to hobbyists as it is a blessing.” It contains many false statements and badly thought out hobbyist “experiments” accepted as fact.

About misleading information.

You probably have mixed up a carbon based denitrator with an autotrophic sulfur based denitrator. Heterotrophic denitrifiers and sulfate reducers need anoxic conditions to function They do not survive in the presence of free oxygen. Anaerobic is not the same as anoxic.
Anoxic is a condition <0.5ppmDO, anaerobic is not making use of dissolved oxygen.

The sulfur bacteria in question are Thiobacillus denitrificans. They do NOT need anoxic conditions. They are able to use both pathways, aerobic and anaerobic. They do NOT need anoxic conditions to use the anaerobic pathway. They are able to switch pathway if the oxygen supply can not follow BOD. They change pathway in relation to oxygen availability. it is a big misunderstanding anoxic conditions are needed for the BADES proces.

BADES is used in marine aquaria since the 90ties, this without keeping reactors anoxic. The MAAO reactors worked fine still having 3 ppm DO in the effluent. https://www.aquarium-tropical.fr/sites/default/files/aquarium/file/denitratation1_1.pdf

The best solution to prevent sulfate reduction ( H2S) is NOT keeping the reactor in an anoxic state. A BADES reactor is NOT kept anoxic. Practice shows normal oparation having 3ppm DO in the effluent. . No need for ORP probes or metering pumps and other stuff only needed because one uses it.
A good working BADES reactor, following the basic rules, has a flow of +-1/4 to 1/2 the system volume daily and still works fine at a daily flow of the total system volume. No need for degassing if a moving bed reactor is used having the outflow on top, no accumulation of gasses.

 

[ReeferBud]

Why?

Dieter Brockman, one of the driving forces behind the Berlin method, said in an interview with Roger Vitko in 2004: “The Internet is as much a curse to hobbyists as it is a blessing.” It contains many false statements and badly thought out hobbyist “experiments” accepted as fact.

About misleading information.

You probably have mixed up a carbon based denitrator with an autotrophic sulfur based denitrator. Heterotrophic denitrifiers and sulfate reducers need anoxic conditions to function They do not survive in the presence of free oxygen. Anaerobic is not the same as anoxic.
Anoxic is a condition <0.5ppmDO, anaerobic is not making use of dissolved oxygen.

The sulfur bacteria in question are Thiobacillus denitrificans. They do NOT need anoxic conditions. They are able to use both pathways, aerobic and anaerobic. They do NOT need anoxic conditions to use the anaerobic pathway. They are able to switch pathway if the oxygen supply can not follow BOD. They change pathway in relation to oxygen availability. it is a big misunderstanding anoxic conditions are needed for the BADES proces.

BADES is used in marine aquaria since the 90ties, this without keeping reactors anoxic. The MAAO reactors worked fine still having 3 ppm DO in the effluent. https://www.aquarium-tropical.fr/sites/default/files/aquarium/file/denitratation1_1.pdf

The best solution to prevent sulfate reduction ( H2S) is NOT keeping the reactor in an anoxic state. A BADES reactor is NOT kept anoxic. Practice shows normal oparation having 3ppm DO in the effluent. . No need for ORP probes or metering pumps and other stuff only needed because one uses it.
A good working BADES reactor, following the basic rules, has a flow of +-1/4 to 1/2 the system volume daily and still works fine at a daily flow of the total system volume. No need for degassing if a moving bed reactor is used having the outflow on top, no accumulation of gasses.

 

[ReeferBud]

Thanks.

I’m honestly never able to follow or understand any of the posts you share in regards to BADES reactors. From the many posts about this subject, I can infer that you are very passionate about them and promoting them. My hunch is that for 99% of people on these forums, the highly sophisticated details shared about the BADES reactors are incomprehensible.

Is there a SIMPLE explanation in layman’s terms that you can provide about the difference of how the vast majority of sulfur reactors are run vs your preferred BADES method? Or are they really the same thing…?

 

[Sean Clark]

An anoxic environment is where sulfur denitrators thrive. I prefer -180mv to -300mv. If you want to advocate for another system then you should consider starting a thread for that.

 

[BugXprt]

thanks for sharing.

I have the TS-3 and when I’ve noticed a lot of gas in the reactor, it’s always been air being sucked in somehow, likely through your dosing pump into the inlet of the reactor. I’d check to ensure you don’t have bubbles getting the reactor and you can check that by looking at where the inlet tube goes into the pre-filter.

there’s no way all that gas is H2S, otherwise you’d definitely know!! If a few bubbles, more likely to be nitrogen from the bacteria breaking down the nitrates.

would highly recommend using an ORP probe, not to chase numbers, but to realize when you have a problem. If flow is too low and ORP goes too negative, the reactor will foul and clog due to mulm formation, and will will get some H2S. If flow is too high and ORP is too high, or if you have air in the reactor like you have now, you won’t achieve the anoxic environment that is needed for the anaerobic bacteria.

I realized after that video I had the inlet and effluent reversed, I switched it, solved the problem

 

[Bas]

hey guys, im looking into starting my own denitrator and i am wondering if the korallin s1501 is all inclusive or do you need to add something?

 

[Sean Clark]

hey guys, im looking into starting my own denitrator and i am wondering if the korallin s1501 is all inclusive or do you need to add something?

Yes the s1501 is all inclusive to get up and going.
The s1501 is for European power.
The s1502 is for US power.

 

[Sean Clark]

hey guys, im looking into starting my own denitrator and i am wondering if the korallin s1501 is all inclusive or do you need to add something?

Yes the s1501 is all inclusive to get up and going.
The s1501 is for European power.
The s1502 is for US power.

I thought that I should add this:
This is if you gravity feed it (which I did for a few years). If you cannot have the reactor output lower than the input then you will need a feed pump.
When I gravity feed mine I had the input drawing from the overflow and the output flowing into the sump.

 

[Bas]

I thought that I should add this:
This is if you gravity feed it (which I did for a few years). If you cannot have the reactor output lower than the input then you will need a feed pump.
When I gravity feed mine I had the input drawing from the overflow and the output flowing into the sump.

if i need a pump, what kind of pump would be a good fit?

 

[Sean Clark]

if i need a pump, what kind of pump would be a good fit?

A variable speed peristaltic pump would be ideal for controlling the flow rate. Something like the kamoer fx-stp.
You can also use a small pump like a sicce sd1 and use one of the valves that come with the reactor on the effluent to control the flow. The issue with this setup is that at very low flow rates the pump can overheat from lack of water flow.

 

[Bas]

A variable speed peristaltic pump would be ideal for controlling the flow rate. Something like the kamoer fx-stp.
You can also use a small pump like a sicce sd1 and use one of the valves that come with p reactor on the effluent to control the flow. The issue with this setup is that at very low flow rates the pump can overheat from lack of water flow.

Would flow around the Sicce be enough to cool it? Or does the water have to go through the pump to cool? I find the kamoer quite expensive for it's purpose.

Thank you for your help on this!

 

[Sean Clark]

Would flow around the Sicce be enough to cool it? Or does the water have to go through the pump to cool? I find the kamoer quite expensive for it's purpose.

Thank you for your help on this!

I am not sure how much flow they need. I have had a few small pumps die from a plugged up carbon reactor (because I am lazy) in the past.

 

[Bas]

I am not sure how much flow they need. I have had a few small pumps die from a plugged up carbon reactor (because I am lazy) in the past.

you use a versa correct? what is your experience with that? i might go with that

 

[Sean Clark]

you use a versa correct? what is your experience with that? i might go with that

I do use a versa but I wouldn't recommend it over the kamoer. The tubing does not last nearly as long and I have already needed to replace the bearings myself after ecotech said they couldn't repair it. The next time I need to replace the tubing I will be going back to my kamoer.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

BADES ( biological anaerobic denitrification using elemental sulfur) is a natural process, not an invention. It takes place everywhere in the aquarium, everywhere a biofilm may grow. I simply use the word BADES reactor instead of sulfur denitrator or sulfur reactor because reactors using the BADES process must NOT be kept in an anoxic state. To point out the difference of management and the big difference in practical use. I use the name BADES reactor for sulfur reactors operated as it was intended by those who introduced BADES for nitrogen management in marine systems and used it in public marine aquarium systems for decades. On this and other fora one mainly speaks about sulfur denitrators with the advise to keep the reactor in an anoxic state. Why?
A carbon based reactor should be kept in an anoxic state to work , a BADES based reactor works fine at much higher flow rates, keeping DO above 0.5ppm in the effluent.
The big difference between methods using the BADES proces are: using a sulfur denitrator the flow is manged in function of the oxygen content ( oxygen content of influent is always the same, +- 6-7ppm) and the flow is limited to keep the reactor in an anoxic state. Using a BADES reactor the flow is managed in function of the nitrate level and the nitrate to remove daily, keeping the level steady or to lower the level, as needed.

We do advise if using a BADES reactor to keep the nitrogen content of the effluent above 0, measurable.

A practical example:
A 1000 l system. The nitrate level is 50ppm, the daily nitrate overproduction is +- 1ppm. The target nitrate level is between 1 and 2 ppm.
To remove 1ppm daily having 50ppm in the water a flow of only 20l daily is needed to remove 1ppm, a bit more flow to lower the level slowly, as it should. About 140 ppm DO is entered daily. The level descends reaching 20 ppm. To be able to remove the same daily nitrate production the flow is increased to reach 50l/daily just to maintain the level at 20ppm, a bit more to lower the level. At this point +- 350ppm DO is entered daily. Assuming the reactor is big enough the level descends to 2 ppm by increasing the flow to 500l daily , flow needed to remove the same daily production of 1 ppm and keep the level steady at 2ppm. DO entered daily is increased to +- 3500 ppm.To lower the level from 2ppm to 1 ppm the daily flow must double to 1000l daily needing a BOD ( biological oxygen demand) of +-7000ppm daily to keep the reactor in an anoxic state ( <0.5ppmDO).
How this is done using a sulfur reactor with limited flow, sometimes equipped with flow regulation based on a negative ORP reading?
This easily can be done by using BADES as intended by the developers of the MAAO method ! Now we do not use tube reactors any more but MBR, moving bed reactors, eliminating the risk for tunneling.

If a high nitrate level is present we do advise to lower the level slowly. Sulfur denitrators are able to remove a high amount of nitrate having a high level available, creating a shock effect on nitrogen availability, alkalinity, pH, enz..

Using a BADES reactor the removal rate can be managed and adjusted to the daily nitrate overproduction to be remove daily, and a bit more if the level must decent. In case the removal rate does not only depends on the nitrate level available but mainly depends on the flow rate, DO entered and BOD ( biological oxygen demand, the oxygen consumption rate due to aerobic activities) see BADES bio-reactor.


We are not in a lab in where oxygen is removed by vacuum. Most research about denitrification capacity the results are retrieved using Lab tests in lab conditions. We are using a flow true system where oxygen is removed by BOD!.
Longouet tested it for over 7 years before transforming it for practical use in public marine aquaria. ref MB The MAAO system

A BADES reactor must be big enough for the aerobic activities being able to remove enough oxygen for anaerobic processes needed to remove nitrate to take place. BADES takes place in oxygen transition zones, bacteria switching over from an aerobic pathway to an anaerobic pathway, NOT needing anoxic conditions. It all depends on BOD!!!!

In fact a good BADES reactor is a good remineralization filter, removing DOC, also producing nitrate, nitrate used up within the reactor. In such a reactor a lot of CO2 is produced. The effluent always must be aerated properly before entering the system! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!
Such a reactor must be BIG ENOUGH, at least 1% of the system volume, depending on the daily nitrogen production to remove daily. The minimal volume can be calculated and depends on the daily amount of nitrogen to be removed and the desired nitrate level to be maintained. A basic rule is 1% of system volume for 1ppm daily, making it possible to maintain a nitrate level of +- 2ppm. Longouet used 1% having to remove a level of 50ppm and 2% above 50ppm which finally is about the same, It also takes into account the volume needed for the aerobic activities needed to maintain a low nitrate level having the same production.

The capacity of a BADES based denitrator is mainly based on BOD, its capacity to consume oxygen

This means a normal bio can be managed to become a good BADES based denitrification system, this without using a closed reactor. One just has to add some elemental sulfur to the filter bed. ( in the case the filterbed is crushed shells)

An easy way for using BADES is using BADES-rolls in a refuge see BADES columns. ref: MB BADESS
One can use as many rolls as needed. The refuge is well aerated, as it was a normal bio.

We advise to use at least the same volume of calcium carbonate based media as volume of sulfur used.

How one can manage a sulfur based system if one does not know the basics of the BADES process? .

I do not promote the use of BADES for removing a safely stored nitrogen reserve. There are better ways to do that, starting with creating a balance between reducers and producers, using AAM or ANM, active nutrient and nitrogen management.
Removing safely stored nitrogen using a sulfur denitrator kept anoxic by limiting the flow , the method used may contain a lot more risks for the system as the presence of nitrate ever has been proven to be, certainly in the hands of someone not knowing how and why! Using BADES as it was intended, not keeping the reactor anoxic, will eliminate most if not all risks and limit the factor of human error.

The sulfur pellets must be technical grade and not contain any pollution.

How and why using BADES

All info about BADES and BADES Systems are available in the reference mentioned above.


I do NOT promote the use of BADES for nitrogen management!!
Using BADES to remove harmless and safely stored usable nitrogen must only be considered if proper nitrogen management fails. In the case I do prefer the use of a BADES System considering other existing methods applicable for denitrification.
I do hope advise given is based on proper references, also if the references for some are incomprehensible. As long the adviser knows how and why, based on correct information or and personal experience based on that information.
We do provide all info in our wiki Makazi Baharini, BADESS. If the reader does not understand what it is all about, one should not use BADES. One can NOT use a BADES reactor as it was a automated device with an ON and OFF switch and a flow regulator valve, although a BADES reactor used properly will become self regulating, needing very little maintenance and adjustments once the desired level is reached. A good BADES reactor the same time also is a good bio-filter, all in the reactor produced nitrate can be removed. This must be taken in consideration because too much nitrogen may be exported. We do advise to keep the nitrate level at +- 1-2ppm, and reactor effluent nitrogen content measurable.

I do promote the use of AAM, active nutrient management, which includes nitrogen and carbon management, balancing producers and reducers, using bio-filter(s)

 

[Belgian Anthias]

We start with a BADES reactor which is big enough. In that reactor we install the denitrification capacity needed to remove the daily nitrate overproduction every day. So we have to determine the daily nitrate overproduction to start with. We do use a reactor of at least 1% of the system volume.
First we need to install BOD. In a system having an overproduction of nitrate we may assume enough BOD is available,.
First we turn the reactor in a normal bio-reactor, maintaining a normal high flow rate and oxygen supply, installing a high BOD. It will take a few weeks for the remineralization and nitrification to become optimal. Within the formed biofilms, T.denitrificans will start to grow, using produced sulfur compounds. Also some HS will be produced and used by T. denitrificans transforming H2S back to sulfate and a bit of sulfur using nitrate as a nitrogen source (denitrification). That produced sulfur can be used for the BADES process.
We do use a MBR and in casu the filter bed is shell grit mixed with elemental sulfur 50/50;This means there is no need for HS production for T.denitrificans to start using nitrate, they use availble nitrate turning sulfur into sulphate and nitrogen gasses. The growth of T.d is not limited to the presence of sulfur compounds but they can use sulfur as long enough nitrate is present. This means the denitrification capacity of the biofilter, which normally without any sulfur added is about 15 % of by the biofilm produced nitrate, may increase. Because nitrate is produced within the reactor the nitrate content in the effluent may still be higher as the nitrate content in the influent. We wait and look what happens in the following days. If the nitrate content influent-effluent equals T.d. is active, if the effluent is lower , we do not need to do a thing, we may leave it as it is. If not, we correct the inflow a little bit and again wait and see. we continue to make small corrections until we have the desired result. Now we have to make corrections until the level goes down. One must be aware the bioreactor has changed the daily nitrate overproduction due to removing the nitrate produced internally due to remineralization taking place in the reactor instead in the tank.

The above discription is how a BADES bio-filter can be managed. A complet different approach as when using a denitrator.
Using an anoxic denitrator the autotrophic denitrification capacity depends of nitrate availability within the reactor, when nitrate is used up sulfate reduction will take place fed by dying sulfur bacteria ( anaerobic reminezalisation), producing HS.
Using a BADES bio-reactor nitrate is produced constantly within the reactor maintaining a minimal denitrification capacity, keeping the colony very active at all times.

It is just one of the many ways the BADES process can be used, without equipment only needed because it is used.

Using a BADES bio-reactor a very low nitrate level can be maintained and controlled. We start with installing BOD needed and then install the denitrification capacity needed for removing the daily nitrate overproduction. or a bit more. if the level is 50ppm having an overproduction of 1ppm a denitrification capacity of 2ppm daily is enough to lower the level. Most space available in the reactor and flow will be used for managing BOD = denitrification capacity.
If one has 50ppm nitrate influent, targeting an effluent of 48 ppm will lower the level, slowly. in the case no other adjustments are needed because the capacity to remove minimal 2ppm daily is installed wile having a high flow rate, high enough to lower the level to a desired level, 2ppm. Maintaining the flow the same amount of DO stays available, the same denitrification capacity stays available supported by internal nitrate production.

 

[Belgian Anthias]

Yes the s1501 is all inclusive to get up and going.
The s1501 is for European power.
The s1502 is for US power.

A very expensive way for just removing some nitrate.

Using BADES in a reactor any reef safe container with a lit can be used. Connecting a pump flow rate 2 x the system volume daily, with closed loop and a simple valve will turn the container into a MBR, moving bed. some shell gritt and sulfur. Outflow on top. Most important is aeration of the effluent before it enters the system. reactor volume at least 1% of system volume.

Why using an expensive reactor? One does not need it for removing nitrate using the BADES process, for sulfur bacteria to remove nitrate. Using bades rolls ( self made) you only need some filter cloth to make the columns and of coarce sulfur and shell grit. if you have a sump, just hang them in the sump.