New Swiss 1900 liter (500G) Build

[Laith]

So I decided to order two new shafts and see if that would help. When I received them, surprise surprise: the manufacturer has changed the design of the shaft!

Here is the new one (left) next to the original:

A closer look at the new one:

They have added o-rings to both ends of the shaft, I assume to keep them from slipping out of the housing?

 

[Laith]

I've taken the Gyres out and they are currently soaking in Citric acid for a clean. Then I'll install the new shaft in one of them (my supplier only had one new shaft in stock, waiting on the other) and see how it runs now.

If the new shafts don't solve the problem I'm going to have find another solution.

Anyone know of any other make of pump that can sit that close to the surface without sucking in air? I think Red Sea has a similar style Gyre but I heard somewhere that they are just the Maxspect Gyres rebranded?

 

[SPR1968]

Why don’t you get some MP60’s/40’s they are so simple to clean it’s effortless, and they have some great water movement patterns

The once or twice (mainly once!) a year clean involves taking off the wet side, dropping in citric acid until you get bored of waiting and then reattach it. That’s it.

 

[dragon99]

I've been running 2 XF350's for a couple years and never encountered that issue. I do notice that the flow drops off quite a lot after a couple weeks. They need frequent cleaning to keep the flow rate at peak.

Alternatives might be the Tunze Stream3 or Panta Rhei? They don't have the same profile, but can move a lot of water in a straight line.

 

[Forty-Two]

A few words about the Gyres that I've been running (two XF350s)...

I've decided I have a love/hate relationship with these:

Pros:

- They push a lot of water.
- You can place them up near the surface of the water.

Cons:

- They will run for a two to three weeks and then suddenly stop working.

So they need to be fiddled with (taken apart, cleaned and put back together) way too frequently for my taste. As a comparison, I have two Tunze 6255s that, because of the depth of my tank (and a bit of laziness on my part ) I have not removed and cleaned since the tank was set up (October of 2019). These Tunzes are still running strong though I assume they would be more efficient if they were cleaned (yes, yes, they will be cleaned soon!).

The main problem I think is one of design. The main shaft that turns the two rotors sits in the housing that turns the shaft. Every time I have had to take the Gyres apart because they have stopped I see this:

The shaft has pushed itself out of the housing. When it is seated correctly all the way in it should look like this:

Because it slips out of the housing like that, I think the round part gets slowly pushed in a way that is no longer sitting how it should on the shaft:

You can see how it's twisted (the round part at the top of the picture).

The main reason I got the Gyres in the first place was to push surface water from one end of the three meter tank towards the overflow on the other end so I don't get this surface scum buildup on this end of the tank (picture taken after one of the incidents where the two Gyres stopped spinning):

I have the 330’s - I’ll see if the same happens with mine. I hope not.

I have noticed in the first week already a reduction in flow intensity. I’m hoping it doesn’t continue but I’m noticing a buildup of algae on the pumps more so than my other
Pump.

 

[Laith]

Why don’t you get some MP60’s/40’s they are so simple to clean it’s effortless, and they have some great water movement patterns

The once or twice (mainly once!) a year clean involves taking off the wet side, dropping in citric acid until you get bored of waiting and then reattach it. That’s it.

I did look at the MP60s when I was deciding on equipment for the tank. I agree that they push water well and cleaning is easier as you don't have to pull out the wet side with a wire attached to it.

However, I had been using Tunzes on my previous tank and loved them for two reasons: you have some flexibility in pointing the flow (the MP60s can only point in one direction) but the main advantage for me was that, once broken in, they are QUIET .

When I was researching for my new setup I visited several large reef tanks in the region to see different equipment in action. All the MP series of pumps that I saw running were louder than the Tunzes. Not crazy loud but noticeably louder than the Tunzes.

So I stuck with Tunzes: 4x 6255s and 2x 6155s.

As for the Gyres, the ones I saw running were surprisingly quiet (I think the 3xx series are a different design to previous models and therefore quieter), except when running at 90-100%. I run mine at 70%. So I went for them to have that surface movement...

 

[Laith]

I've been running 2 XF350's for a couple years and never encountered that issue. I do notice that the flow drops off quite a lot after a couple weeks. They need frequent cleaning to keep the flow rate at peak.

Alternatives might be the Tunze Stream3 or Panta Rhei? They don't have the same profile, but can move a lot of water in a straight line.

My first choice for pumps to put high up and push surface water was the Stream 3. However, they do not have an option for mounting them on 24mm glass. If I remember correctly, they told me that the strength of the magnet required for 24mm glass interferes with the running of the pump itself due to the magnet technology used to run the Stream 3. The only option was to use them in the Stream 3 rocks so that wouldn't have done what I needed them to do.

I was very tempted by the Panta Rhei pumps. They move a crazy amount of water, well made and are quiet as well. But:

- Can't mount them high up towards the surface.
- They are large.

 

[blaxsun]

Anyone know of any other make of pump that can sit that close to the surface without sucking in air? I think Red Sea has a similar style Gyre but I heard somewhere that they are just the Maxspect Gyres rebranded?

I run a pair of Red Sea ReefWave 45s as my primary gyres and a pair of Maxspect XF330s on battery backup for emergencies.

The Red Sea gyres are whisper quiet, and very different from the Maxspect gyres (the basic design is the same, but Red Sea has made a lot of improvements with their design over the Maxspect). They have a break in the connector so you don't have to pull all the wiring back to the controller (something I abhor doing to clean the Maxspects).

The Maxspect gyres clog up quite a bit faster than the ReefWaves, and when they do they start vibrating quite intensely (even at only 10-20%) - such that you can see the gyre wobble from the imbalance. To be fair, the magnet isn't rated for the 3/4" glass thickness, so this may partially contribute to the vibration.

 

[Forty-Two]

I run a pair of Red Sea ReefWave 45s as my primary gyres and a pair of Maxspect XF330s on battery backup for emergencies.

The Red Sea gyres are whisper quiet, and very different from the Maxspect gyres (the basic design is the same, but Red Sea has made a lot of improvements with their design over the Maxspect). They have a break in the connector so you don't have to pull all the wiring back to the controller (something I abhor doing to clean the Maxspects).

The Maxspect gyres clog up quite a bit faster than the ReefWaves, and when they do they start vibrating quite intensely (even at only 10-20%) - such that you can see the gyre wobble from the imbalance. To be fair, the magnet isn't rated for the 3/4" glass thickness, so this may partially contribute to the vibration.

Interesting - good to know - thanks

 

[2una]

Just had a look now - i'm running 2 x XF350 & they are less than 2 inch's from the surface & not sucking air.
I'm not at 70% tho.
Laith i know your on the Kalk trail but your Alk mix is it Bicarb?
You know you can halve the dosing amount by rather using carbonate

Have a play with this calculator on Randy recipe 1 & 2 with recipe no2 being bicarb

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Edit:
On one of the pictures of your XF350's it looks like you have the cable exiting at the bottom side?
Try it with them oriented so the cable is coming out the top & see if any differant.
Water should be flowing out the top grid - not sucking

 

[SPR1968]

I did look at the MP60s when I was deciding on equipment for the tank. I agree that they push water well and cleaning is easier as you don't have to pull out the wet side with a wire attached to it.

However, I had been using Tunzes on my previous tank and loved them for two reasons: you have some flexibility in pointing the flow (the MP60s can only point in one direction)

Although the MP’s do point in a particular direction as you say, the flow patterns and water movement can be selected and varied to create all type of random water movement around the tank.

The nutrient export mode is particularly useful, and I didn’t realise how much until I had a small amount of cyno form on some debris on the rockwork. I run this mode for about 9 hours in the early hours every day and it keeps everything spotless, both sand and rock work

 

[Laith]

I run a pair of Red Sea ReefWave 45s as my primary gyres and a pair of Maxspect XF330s on battery backup for emergencies.

The Red Sea gyres are whisper quiet, and very different from the Maxspect gyres (the basic design is the same, but Red Sea has made a lot of improvements with their design over the Maxspect). They have a break in the connector so you don't have to pull all the wiring back to the controller (something I abhor doing to clean the Maxspects).

The Maxspect gyres clog up quite a bit faster than the ReefWaves, and when they do they start vibrating quite intensely (even at only 10-20%) - such that you can see the gyre wobble from the imbalance. To be fair, the magnet isn't rated for the 3/4" glass thickness, so this may partially contribute to the vibration.

Good to know about the Red Sea gyres! So they can be an option to look at if the new Maxspect shafts don't do the trick.

 

[blaxsun]

Good to know about the Red Sea gyres! So they can be an option to look at if the new Maxspect shafts don't do the trick.

I’ve also been able to order spare parts for the gyre through Red Sea, ie: spare controller, magnets, frame, etc.

They can move a lot of water (I don’t run them greater than 50%).

 

[Laith]

...
Laith i know your on the Kalk trail but your Alk mix is it Bicarb?
You know you can halve the dosing amount by rather using carbonate

Have a play with this calculator on Randy recipe 1 & 2 with recipe no2 being bicarb

Reef Chemistry Calculator

Edit:
On one of the pictures of your XF350's it looks like you have the cable exiting at the bottom side?
Try it with them oriented so the cable is coming out the top & see if any differant.
Water should be flowing out the top grid - not sucking

I'm using the Fauna Marin Balling Light and I'm pretty sure the Alk mix is Sodium bicarbonate.

As for the cables, the cables from the Gyres do come out on top. The picture is confusing because underneath the two Gyres are two Tunze 6255s halfway down the end pane and their wires go up and around the Gyres to try to do some wire management .

 

[2una]

I'm using the Fauna Marin Balling Light and I'm pretty sure the Alk mix is Sodium bicarbonate.

As for the cables, the cables from the Gyres do come out on top. The picture is confusing because underneath the two Gyres are two Tunze 6255s halfway down the end pane and their wires go up and around the Gyres to try to do some wire management .

FM site says - Alk 10ml/100L = 0.5dkh so that's closer to carbonate than bicarb so no win there.

On your kalk head scratching i can let you know that on my net 600L i use 200g kalk in a Reef Octo ks100 & dose 2.7L/day & that last's about a month & then i renew the kalk as it seems its dropping off the pH bump. I start seeing a lower pH low.
That's just a conventional stirrer not using milk.

One of the older kalk stirrers might be what you want as they used to do the "stirring" with a pump rather than the newer blade type stirrers. One of those would keep the kalk suspended but i guess the question would be how long the pump would last & whether spares are findable.

 

[dragon99]

My first choice for pumps to put high up and push surface water was the Stream 3. However, they do not have an option for mounting them on 24mm glass. If I remember correctly, they told me that the strength of the magnet required for 24mm glass interferes with the running of the pump itself due to the magnet technology used to run the Stream 3. The only option was to use them in the Stream 3 rocks so that wouldn't have done what I needed them to do.

I was very tempted by the Panta Rhei pumps. They move a crazy amount of water, well made and are quiet as well. But:

- Can't mount them high up towards the surface.
- They are large.

So how about something like this to mount the Stream3 to a piece of acrylic instead of the glass?

Large Build - Smiddy's Reef 360 Peninsula

@Gablami I have walled the off the area due to the reasons above. Covered the tank. I feel this is the most realistic thing for my set up. I also think I see where that 10 ft rule came from. Humblefish's Option B quarantine method?

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Laith]

FM site says - Alk 10ml/100L = 0.5dkh so that's closer to carbonate than bicarb so no win there.

On your kalk head scratching i can let you know that on my net 600L i use 200g kalk in a Reef Octo ks100 & dose 2.7L/day & that last's about a month & then i renew the kalk as it seems its dropping off the pH bump. I start seeing a lower pH low.
That's just a conventional stirrer not using milk.

One of the older kalk stirrers might be what you want as they used to do the "stirring" with a pump rather than the newer blade type stirrers. One of those would keep the kalk suspended but i guess the question would be how long the pump would last & whether spares are findable.

I'm still looking at dosing Kalk as a slurry. I received a great calculator from @Rob.bucek for calculating amounts for different percentages of Kalk. My main constraint at the moment is finding a place for a container for the Kalk mixture. I need a container of at least 20-30 liters for the amount of dosing I'd like to do and even then I'd need to mix up a new batch every two weeks or so, depending on what % I use.

Have to get creative using the space I have under the tank. If the Kalk works out well then I could reduce the size of my carbonate mix container...

 

[Laith]

The new motor shaft in the Gyre 350 seems to work much better than the old design: it has not stopped once and the output seems to stay higher longer.

I've received the second motor shaft for the other 350 so I'll install that soon.

 

[Laith]

So I'm having the ventilation above the tank revisited:

One of my GHL Mitras basically shorted out. In in discussions with GHL and after sharing some pictures with them, they indicated that the humidity above the tank was too high and that this caused corrosion in the fan board of the light, causing a short circuit.

I took a look at the other Mitras and three of the four remaining lights were showing signs of that same corrosion:

So I ordered new fan boards and new covers (the white covers with the cutouts) as the covers were starting to melt as well.

GHL assured me that this was not a case of the lights overheating as they autoregulate if the temps get too high but definitely a humidity problem.

The extractor fan that I installed that sucks air directly outside from above the tank is managed by the air temperature over the tank. The air temp probe also measures humidity but for some reason the Profilux cannot manage a 0-10v output based on humidity so I had to use the temp probe. In hindsight this is pretty dumb because often temp and humidity are inversely related .

Looking at the history of the humidity over the tank I saw that it often hit over 80% and the Mitras are rated for max 80%. I've reset the threshold for the fan (still using the air temp) so that it runs more and stronger. Since then the humidity rarely goes over 60% but at higher speeds the exhaust fan is too loud for my liking (which is why I probably originally set it at a threshold where it made little noise - stupid).

So in the meantime I've ordered and installed a new Mitras and installed the new fan boards in three of the four remaining Mitras to avoid another short circuit (not a pleasant smell when the Mitras died!).

I also had the ventilator expert around and he is going to install a tube from the exhaust fan that will go over the tank with four or five vents in it to ensure that it is the air above the tank that is being removed and not just air from the right side of the setup that comes in through the cracks around the doors/panels. He is also going to install a "silencer" on the fan as well as a humidity sensor so that the fan runs directly off of the humidity sensor (since the Profilux cannot do it).

So that was the Mitras saga... ;Facepalm. I still love the lights but they do run hot to the touch and GHL does clearly state that they are made for open top tanks and never put them in a canopy. I don't have a canopy as such but it is an enclosed space and I didn't pay enough attention to the weak ventilation.

Strange though that the rest of the room is not humid at all with a humidity level at a more or less constant 50%.

 

[Laith]

On a brighter side:

My ION Director is finally in my hands! this was preordered in December 2019, but with Covid, supply chain issues as well as teething problems during the beta testing of the IOND (resulting in tweaks in the design of the probe) it has taken longer than planned .

A fellow reefer here has installed his several weeks ago and he is ecstatic with the results!

Can't wait to find the time to set this up ;Happy;Happy.