New Tank Big Mistake uncured rock cycling with fish :[

Clown2020

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Hi

have started a new fowlr tank based of advice from a friend of a friend. Fluval flex 32 gallon with skimmer. currently got 2 ocellaris clownfish.

have freshwater tanks this is my first marine tank …. Now for the massive mistake

cycling the tank with seachem stability Per the directions however the rock went straight in the tank no curing nothing. First 5 days amonia never got above .25ppm using prime every 48 hours to bind it. The. All of a sudden whatever dead matter is on the rock has stated to decay ammonia stuck at 1ppm and nitrite between .25 and .5ppm and has been like that for 5 days with 2x weekly 30% water changes

I’m guessing I must have the starts of a cycle if I’m getting nitrites just too much waste on the rock for the bacteria.

i live far away from any pet store so only have access to what I can order online on overnight delivery. I’m thinking of taking half the rock out pressurewashing it and putting it back then repeat for the other half

other option I was thinking is I have plenty of spare freshwater decor that I could add to give the clowns some cover and slowly add the washed rock in bit by bit. Or am I best to just keep binding with prime and changing water and let the cycle run it’s course.

When I’ve cycled with stability in freshwater I never got above .25 of amonia or nitrite and could just keep binding it with prime just really concerned about the fish although they seem fine at the moment

Any reccomemdations apreciated.




 

Azedenkae

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Hi

have started a new fowlr tank based of advice from a friend of a friend. Fluval flex 32 gallon with skimmer. currently got 2 ocellaris clownfish.

have freshwater tanks this is my first marine tank …. Now for the massive mistake

cycling the tank with seachem stability Per the directions however the rock went straight in the tank no curing nothing. First 5 days amonia never got above .25ppm using prime every 48 hours to bind it. The. All of a sudden whatever dead matter is on the rock has stated to decay ammonia stuck at 1ppm and nitrite between .25 and .5ppm and has been like that for 5 days with 2x weekly 30% water changes

I’m guessing I must have the starts of a cycle if I’m getting nitrites just too much waste on the rock for the bacteria.

i live far away from any pet store so only have access to what I can order online on overnight delivery. I’m thinking of taking half the rock out pressurewashing it and putting it back then repeat for the other half

other option I was thinking is I have plenty of spare freshwater decor that I could add to give the clowns some cover and slowly add the washed rock in bit by bit. Or am I best to just keep binding with prime and changing water and let the cycle run it’s course.

When I’ve cycled with stability in freshwater I never got above .25 of amonia or nitrite and could just keep binding it with prime just really concerned about the fish although they seem fine at the moment

Any reccomemdations apreciated.




Well if you are dosing Prime it should be fine. Seems like the cycling process is slower than you'd like though, and that may also mean having to up Prime dosage soon.

One thing you could try is to use some other bottled bac product that works far faster than Stability, like FritzZyme Turbo Start 900. That way nitrifiers are established faster.

At this point I don't think cleaning the rocks would really help. Not many people cure rocks nowadays anymore either, depending on how you define curing rocks.
 

Mibu

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What fish do you have?
Is your rock "live rock" or "life rock" or just dry rock? If it's actual live rock, I would use a turkey baster or a power head and clean off the debris, syphon up whatever you can and do a 20% water change.
Are you using live sand?
What ammonia test kit are you using?
 

brandon429

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Anytime we see a stuck ammonia thread it’s always in response to a test reading, of those reported numbers, some even in 2 year old systems while all along tank runs fine fish run fine water clear and literally no problem other than the non digital test kit


so, let’s see a tank pic before comparing examples to the false stuck ammonia examples thread

when a reading is accurate, and ammonia is truly uncontrolled, the thread title will reflect losses in the tank or clear water issues. so far, 100% of them have been only api or red sea testing alarms, and never ever a single seneye that was shown calibrated before the reading

those reports above .25-.5 are the exact readings from every post we collect, regardless of the age or condition of the tank. a tuned seneye has never shown a single time a working reef reaching those levels, even during initial cycle/handy patterns we use in making tank predictions.

Your rock may indeed be curing, but I bet its handled like any high bioload approach, just fine and with more nitrate in the end (and then api says low nitrate, meaning the cycle is certainly stalled he he, always api never the tank)
 
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davidcalgary29

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And please post what tests you're using! Some brands have been known to produce inaccurate results.

I stupidly added dry rock to one of my established tanks about a month ago. And I didn't even wash it! It clouded up my tank for a few days...but otherwise did not affect params. Where did this rock come from? Was it previously used in another build?
 
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Clown2020

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Thanks for the replies. Will try get a pic of the tank tonight after work. Am using api master kit. I was aware that prime will throw out the ammonia reading. So I tested against fresh salt water that I purposely died with prime and that reads 0 - 0.25 and nitrites read 0.

so based on the difference between water that I know has no amonia and the tank ther is at least a 0.5 ppm diffrence. Or could this be because of the amount of prime and stability I’m dosing

based on a bit of forum searching if I’m reading correctly I shouldn’t worry about nitrites unless they get very high?

the rock was ordered online it is definitely from the sea at some point as you can see what we’re once corals and other living things in the rock. Most of the surface is white but particularly inside the rock or side where I have broke or cut bits off are brown and if i take a small pice and scrub at it it lightens up. I also noticed the water started to smell after a week. However water looks clear

fish are eating well and swimming around no one is sitting at the top no red gills nothing that I would look for in freshwater to indicate amonia other than the bad smell but makes sense with dead stuff on the rocks.
 
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brandon429

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we dont expect clean water to register any ammonia species, its the active safe conversion levels found in cycled setups that overreports. seneye seems immune to the issue when tuned so far

the right way to trouble shoot it is to only hunt for free ammonia once you have water that smells, is cloudy and animals are dying. those must line up to have ammonia non control...your current fish wouldnt willingly feed if they were being burned. agreed rock curing is likely the strongest test it'll ever face in conversion but it still sounds like all is aligned other than the tests. what I like about free ammonia noncontrol is its working with the single most burning, painful waste form our tanks make. we can measure that impact visually as well.

*if there ever was a tank setup I think could overcome common cycling preps, its a cured rock one. at least the assembly here is out of pattern with the others linked, those were fully cured setups. nice distinction there for our visual test. I bet its an accepted, upper end but still processed bioload as worst case... neat thread can't wait to see pics

am glad you have test animals in place, watching what they do is key. in fact its the best determinant until we get a seneye. eventually we're going to need to see animals in place if we continue to get non digital reports, hate to admit it but we're stuck in the hobby other than those two assessment techniques. the rest is total random reports affected by all kinds of additives, fill lines, reagent shaking, room light hue etc..the trend is to misreport in work threads. cant wait to see pics

old cycling rules always gets to claim noncontrol of the single most burning compound we'll see daily in each tank, but the tank always looks normal. always. nobody leaves fish meanly in a clearly unable tank, but those test kits seed doubt :)

you wouldnt sit there watching fish writhe. they're acting normal, water looks normal, conversion underway after initial dosing of bac. ive never seen half-working bac, we only have examples of totally working bac.

a non digital test kit has caused alarm after blanking on clean water event #4255

bottle bac on seneye has been tracked out to handle all initial starting bioloads without a delay. this extra curing is indeed a bioload, but I've yet to see a bioload not handled that has a normal-running tank in pics

maybe this w be the first on file
 
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Azedenkae

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Thanks for the replies. Will try get a pic of the tank tonight after work. Am using api master kit. I was aware that prime will throw out the ammonia reading. So I tested against fresh water that I purposely died with prime and that reads 0 - 0.25 and nitrites read 0.

so based on the difference between water that I know has no amonia and the tank ther is at least a 0.5 ppm diffrence. Or could this be because of the amount of prime and stability I’m dosing.
Nah probably just ammonia produced by your fish, Prime and Stability does not directly add any ammonia.
based on a bit of forum searching if I’m reading correctly I shouldn’t worry about nitrites unless they get very high?
That's correct. It needs to be so high that realistically, we probably don't need to worry about it.
fish are eating well and swimming around no one is sitting at the top no red gills nothing that I would look for in freshwater to indicate amonia other than the bad smell but makes sense with dead stuff on the rocks.
They won't exhibit any symptoms if you are dosing Prime to detoxify the ammonia.

All in all you should be fine. Just keep an eye on ammonia and don't let it get too high. Note that if ammonia rises above 1ppm, you need to up your dosage of Prime. Seachem recommends 1x dosage per 1ppm of ammonia, so 2ppm requires 2x dosage, etc.
 

Tamberav

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Hi

have started a new fowlr tank based of advice from a friend of a friend. Fluval flex 32 gallon with skimmer. currently got 2 ocellaris clownfish.

have freshwater tanks this is my first marine tank …. Now for the massive mistake

cycling the tank with seachem stability Per the directions however the rock went straight in the tank no curing nothing. First 5 days amonia never got above .25ppm using prime every 48 hours to bind it. The. All of a sudden whatever dead matter is on the rock has stated to decay ammonia stuck at 1ppm and nitrite between .25 and .5ppm and has been like that for 5 days with 2x weekly 30% water changes

I’m guessing I must have the starts of a cycle if I’m getting nitrites just too much waste on the rock for the bacteria.

i live far away from any pet store so only have access to what I can order online on overnight delivery. I’m thinking of taking half the rock out pressurewashing it and putting it back then repeat for the other half

other option I was thinking is I have plenty of spare freshwater decor that I could add to give the clowns some cover and slowly add the washed rock in bit by bit. Or am I best to just keep binding with prime and changing water and let the cycle run it’s course.

When I’ve cycled with stability in freshwater I never got above .25 of amonia or nitrite and could just keep binding it with prime just really concerned about the fish although they seem fine at the moment

Any reccomemdations apreciated.


Is there actual dead matter on the rock? or is this dry base rock from BRS or such?

I would take the clowns out and put them in a tote with fresh saltwater matched for temp and salinity and add the fake decor for hiding spots. They will produce a lot less ammonia then old rock (depending what you have?). I would monitor it and do water changes as needed and dose prime. I would also run a filter like sponge filter or hob and add some biospira. That should cycle the temporary QT quickly until the DT finishes.

I am sure many may not see this as needed, and it may not be, but I QT my fish anyways.

I do use LIVE rock that is harshly shipped and could never hope to cycle fish with the stuff I use. I would say a lot depends on what your rock has actually decaying on it.
 
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Cell

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If I was in your situation and really wanted the rocks clean because they are spitting out dead organics and particulate matter and I have reason to believe will continue to do so for a lengthy period of time, I'd deal with it now. I'd remove up to 1/2 of the rock at a time and clean them up outside of the tank in your preferred manner and be done with it. I wonder what your phosphate level is.
 
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Clown2020

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Unfortunately I don’t have a spare tank to move them out. The flex does have ha built in filter and I have the optional skimmer both are running.

i happen to have the left over rubble here at my office attached is a pic of what the worst of the rock looks like inside. The rock that is is the tank is a nice clean white on the outside for about 3/4 of the rock.
 

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brandon429

why did you put a reef in that
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not crusty beardy, still seems pretty low key.

ammonia tracing threads are fascinating you can solve the puzzle with only pieces...they all arrange the same way in the end. knowing time factor along with water in the tank can solve 99% of cycle issues, then curing as a variable is subject to variance but in that case there's clearly not a heavy periphyton layer rehydrating. in one of our skip cycles he adds ten fish right at once and a giant anemone, now that's a challenge!
 
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Clown2020

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Thanks again for all the advice so far. Interesting to learn the differences in marine Vs freshwater a little more different than I thaught

got someone to send me a pic of the tank unfortunately the didn’t think to include the fish or turn on the light but at least u get a good look at most of the rock

there is one more big chunk of similar Color off screen to the right

2AA2DA49-184A-4CE7-BE9E-0E9DA82F5E97.jpeg
 
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Clown2020

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Managed to get a pic of the clowns today. Water has stopped smelling. API test kit still returning 1ppm amonia .25ppm nitrite. Fish are still eating and swimming about.

I’m thinking I’ll just carry on as is and watch for nitrates to start showing up and dose stability daily until the bottle runs out.

66F20CA2-E35E-46C3-B3A3-5B8C6B5FE57C.jpeg
 

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