New tank cycling problem

[jhagan]

Hi all, I’m looking for a bit of advice.

I’m new to saltwater and have been following a budget build guide on YouTube. I haven’t cycled a tank since my first freshwater one years ago as I’ve always used media from an established tank to instantly cycle. My tank is 80l (20gallon), I used dry rock and Fritz turbo start and added 2 small clowns. I’m using salifert test kits daily and currently my day 10 results are:
ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 4 (highest on card)
Nitrate: 5-10

My levels have been the same since day 2 when the ammonia dropped to 0 and I’m testing at the same time each day. I did a 15l (3-4 gallon) water change after 7 days (not sure if that’s a good thing) but I don’t want the fish to die. Should i just ride it out or is it worth adding more beneficial bacteria or any other suggestions?

Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Allow 12-18 hours after adding bacteria to get most true results. Consider taking a water sample to a trusted LFS and have them test the water for you and see what results they come up with for comparison

 

[brandon429]

you did a common skip cycle things are fine.


your next step is all disease control research, put away cycling issues and testing. this bottle bac you used is the best, it worked, that's why they're happy and water is clear. cycle, done. cease testing for ammonia and nitrite and add no more bottle bac, its off and running.


read the disease control forum, select a protocol, implement it before disease sets in. fish disease is what w take them, not cycling.

 

[brandon429]

Fritz has been tracked in the 99 page bottle bac analysis thread as the fastest-adhering bottle bac

if your bottle was bad, the system would cloud out overnite and the fish die after the first feeding, much less the fifth+

it was dosed into a container of high surface area, changed out in two days, water refilled, and system passed oxidation due to adhere bac, not dosed bac

that means any fritz system at 2 days using decently-stored bottle bac will be cycled. It used to be said that fish-in cycling harms fish; you can see they're not harmed at all post a tank pic they'll be normal or it would be reported.

these bottle bac are this good, so, disease import for brooklynella was the hidden risk, not ammonia cycling. they figured it all out for us, selling it in bottles, works great, has no fails in threads I can find after searching.

new cycling science has proven that nitrite has no bearing in cycle assessment, simply don't own the kit and your problem is solved. any degree of searching will show the works done for the claim, nitrite is neutral in cycling and has no basis in measure, we don't need to know it nor nitrate at all here in the start. ammonia is what matters, its proofed by clean water and fish fine after multiple feeds that would otherwise cloud and wreck the system.

all you do is hold course while reading up on disease options/prevention

the system matures each day just fine with the fish and feed and basic ammonia control in place, it can't veer off as long as you dont rapidly increase feeding above steady state, and even then a simple big water change will reset things and continue on safely.

 

[jhagan]

Fritz has been tracked in the 99 page bottle bac analysis thread as the fastest-adhering bottle bac

if your bottle was bad, the system would cloud out overnite and the fish die after the first feeding, much less the fifth+

it was dosed into a container of high surface area, changed out in two days, water refilled, and system passed oxidation due to adhere bac, not dosed bac

that means any fritz system at 2 days using decently-stored bottle bac will be cycled. It used to be said that fish-in cycling harms fish; you can see they're not harmed at all post a tank pic they'll be normal or it would be reported.

these bottle bac are this good, so, disease import for brooklynella was the hidden risk, not ammonia cycling. they figured it all out for us, selling it in bottles, works great, has no fails in threads I can find after searching.

new cycling science has proven that nitrite has no bearing in cycle assessment, simply don't own the kit and your problem is solved. any degree of searching will show the works done for the claim, nitrite is neutral in cycling and has no basis in measure, we don't need to know it nor nitrate at all here in the start. ammonia is what matters, its proofed by clean water and fish fine after multiple feeds that would otherwise cloud and wreck the system.

all you do is hold course while reading up on disease options/prevention

the system matures each day just fine with the fish and feed and basic ammonia control in place, it can't veer off as long as you dont rapidly increase feeding above steady state, and even then a simple big water change will reset things and continue on safely.

Thanks it is all a bit overwhelming. Is there a specific disease control thread you’d recommend? I’m new to the forum. How long would you wait to add more fish?

 

[jim_fitz]

when you say

Nitrite: 4 (highest on card)

does that mean thats all your test kit goes to ?

If so could there be a possibility that its actually higher

might be worth looking at a different test kit

 

[brandon429]

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

here's how it works

these new dry start systems, though able to handle daily waste just fine because bottle bac is that good, have no natural resources to suppress fish disease that is adhered to fish when they come from a pet store/deposit the disease components into the tank and water via simple transfer.


quarantine and fallow, described there, is required or as you can see about 66% of tanks that are under 8 mos old will experience massive fish loss/test/replacement, a marked waste compared to freshwater fish.

when you select freshwater fish that are fat and healthy, and bring them home to a driftwood planted tank they transfer fine by and large, I'd estimate in my experience 99% of all freshwater fish bought survived fine due to planted tank quality, they're not ravaged by disease like marines are.

but in freshwater, even if you add these pet store fish to a matured tank, the loss rate is HIGH and you can see the trending in daily posts there, clear as day. Preps are required for marine fish, beyond just tank maturation, and if the tank is a new dry start tank its especially prone to quick disease issues when mixed fish build up over the next few weeks. unless you're the luckiest of all possible reefers its required to prepare each batch of fish before they go into your tank, but I know that's not fun.

the ratios above/daily new posts on tanks like yours tells the tale, its not my guess.

 

[brandon429]

you can see on nano-reef.com that the majority of nanos housing a clown or two aren't really racked with disease, its the mixed fish systems beyond that which seem to get into trouble.

so, in limited instances clowns only may indeed fare decently without tank preps, but not much beyond that by and large if we watch the disease work forums.

 

[Azedenkae]

Hi all, I’m looking for a bit of advice.

I’m new to saltwater and have been following a budget build guide on YouTube. I haven’t cycled a tank since my first freshwater one years ago as I’ve always used media from an established tank to instantly cycle. My tank is 80l (20gallon), I used dry rock and Fritz turbo start and added 2 small clowns. I’m using salifert test kits daily and currently my day 10 results are:
ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 4 (highest on card)
Nitrate: 5-10

My levels have been the same since day 2 when the ammonia dropped to 0 and I’m testing at the same time each day. I did a 15l (3-4 gallon) water change after 7 days (not sure if that’s a good thing) but I don’t want the fish to die. Should i just ride it out or is it worth adding more beneficial bacteria or any other suggestions?

Thanks

You *should* be fine. Ammonia reading 0 is great. Because, nitrite needs to be very high, like 100+ ppm or way more to be lethal to marine fish. It can start causing toxicity at lower concentrations, like 25ppm, but still is pretty high.

Since your nitrite is now off the charts though, the only concern is how high it actually is.

You can do a serial dilution test to estimate. Keep on doing serial 1 in 2 dilutions until you can actually measure nitrite, and then multiply by the dilution factor and tada.

 

[InvertGang]

Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis

A forum for discussing treatment and diagnosing saltwater reef fish.

www.reef2reef.com

here's how it works

these new dry start systems, though able to handle daily waste just fine because bottle bac is that good, have no natural resources to suppress fish disease that is adhered to fish when they come from a pet store/deposit the disease components into the tank and water via simple transfer.


quarantine and fallow, described there, is required or as you can see about 66% of tanks that are under 8 mos old will experience massive fish loss/test/replacement, a marked waste compared to freshwater fish.

when you select freshwater fish that are fat and healthy, and bring them home to a driftwood planted tank they transfer fine by and large, I'd estimate in my experience 99% of all freshwater fish bought survived fine due to planted tank quality, they're not ravaged by disease like marines are.

but in freshwater, even if you add these pet store fish to a matured tank, the loss rate is HIGH and you can see the trending in daily posts there, clear as day. Preps are required for marine fish, beyond just tank maturation, and if the tank is a new dry start tank its especially prone to quick disease issues when mixed fish build up over the next few weeks. unless you're the luckiest of all possible reefers its required to prepare each batch of fish before they go into your tank, but I know that's not fun.

the ratios above/daily new posts on tanks like yours tells the tale, its not my guess.

Does using some live rock mixed in with dry rock to seed help to mitigate some of these issues?

 

[brandon429]

no, in my opinion even kp aquatics systems/epitome of starting with matured rock/ still has crypto and brook and uronema challenges when imported into the system by standard lfs fish. the recurring themes focus on actual fish disease preps on the fish


Dr. Reef for example sells pre quarantined fish, at least that is someone doing half the prep for us.

we should do another basic data count there 20 pages/assessing rates of disease in dry rock starts vs aged rock starts, where actual age of the tank isn't the main factor.

 

[InvertGang]

no, in my opinion even kp aquatics systems/epitome of starting with matured rock/ still has crypto and brook and uronema challenges when imported into the system by standard lfs fish. the recurring themes focus on actual fish disease preps on the fish


Dr. Reef for example sells pre quarantined fish, at least that is someone doing half the prep for us.

So from what I've read, this is what I've gleaned. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Disease issues or outbreaks are prevalent in mixed fish tanks, especially new ones after 6-12 months. This can happen because each fish introduced has been exposed to different diseases. An individual fish doesn't have immunity from the disease another fish, particularly if they're from different regions. These diseases cross between the fish and can cause outbreaks.

By quarantining, you can reduce or eliminate the disease levels in new fish before you introduce them. This helps prevent the disease cross over that causes issues in these tanks.

Is that right?

 

[brandon429]

Yes and quarantiners seem to use the time as observation wait and not always medication, and then fish like tangs/known cryptocarion vectors to the tune of 90% likely / are pre treated in ways known to work against their predicted associates


brook is strong with clownfish setups when disease does break through etc, they use qt merely to avoid instant display tank vectoring especially if they’re taking time to fallow out the display and only add the most clean items they can produce


tanks that have no disease preps are hardly ever dry start reefs they’re matured in some way as best chances. Dry start reefs seem to nearly require careful preps in every case.