New Tank Cycling

[Angels best]

You really need to start testing to see if your tank has cycled and also if you want to add fish look at one of the bacteria in a bottle additives. I can recommend ATM Colony which I have used twice and basically it instantly cycles the tank ready for fish.

A few of us have the Max S 650 tanks so if you need any advice just ask.

And welcome to R2R as well!

I already had my water checked and saw that my nitrites are at good numbers, 0 ammonia and nitrates. They also not to do water change for 30days as it will slow the process of cycling. Is that right?

 

[IslandLifeReef]

I already had my water checked and saw that my nitrites are at good numbers, 0 ammonia and nitrates. They also not to do water change for 30days as it will slow the process of cycling. Is that right?

With live rock, yes, wait 30 days and you should be good. However, you have added a fish to the tank, so if ammonia does go up, you will need to do something to bring it down or risk killing the fish.

Just so you know, stating your numbers are good won't get you the help you are looking for. We will want to know your numbers in order to give you the best advice.

 

[Angels best]

With live rock, yes, wait 30 days and you should be good. However, you have added a fish to the tank, so if ammonia does go up, you will need to do something to bring it down or risk killing the fish.

Just so you know, stating your numbers are good won't get you the help you are looking for. We will want to know your numbers in order to give you the best advice.

Prolly i’ll buy my own test kit. For ammonia nitrate nitrites. Thank you for your advice.

 

[SPR1968]

Prolly i’ll buy my own test kit. For ammonia nitrate nitrites. Thank you for your advice.

Yes get all the basic test kits and also take a look at the following article which will help and read as much as you can.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

Ammonia will potentially kill the fish, so if it starts to rise you need to act. I mentioned ATM Colony (and there are others, this is just what I have experience with) for example, because it provides all the bacteria needed for an instant cycle and should prevent ammonia issues. There are of course other methods as already mentioned

 

[Angels best]

Yes get all the basic test kits and also take a look at the following article which will help and read as much as you can.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-supreme-guide-to-setting-up-a-saltwater-reef-aquarium.138750/

Ammonia will potentially kill the fish, so if it starts to rise you need to act. I mentioned ATM Colony (and there are others, this is just what I have experience with) for example, because it provides all the bacteria needed for an instant cycle and should prevent ammonia issues. There are of course other methods as already mentioned

Do you water change during cycling for a month?

 

[Captain Quint]

Im actually on my way to have it tested. The chromis i just decided to buy 1 last Tuesday and out of curiosity placed him there.

Just a thought.

Perhaps the LFS would take your Chromis and you could get one back after the tank has cycled.

You do a fishless cycle many ways one easy method is to place a shrimp from the deli in an end section of pantyhose which make it simple to dispose of.

Please let us know what the LFS concludes your parameters to be. Thank you.

 

[ramenorwhatever]

I'd recommend testing your ammonia levels. If zero, go down to ACE hardware and pick up some janitorial grade ammonia (no surfactants, dyes, perfumes) and dose the tank up to 2ppm. Google it.... the are calculators to help decide how much you need to add to get to 2ppm...or just add a little and test until up to 2ppm. Then wait 24hrs and retest ammonia levels. If after 24hrs your ammonia is zero, then you're cycled, if not...then dose again with ammonia until you can clear 2ppm to zero in 24hrs.

I don't understand this though. Shouldn't we wait until The nitrite drops to zero and nitrate tapers to <20ppm before we call it cycled? I currently have 0 ammonia, 5ppm+ nitrite and 40+ nitrate and I refuse to believe it's already cycled. I'm really trying to grasp this concept.

 

[Idoc]

I don't understand this though. Shouldn't we wait until The nitrite drops to zero and nitrate tapers to <20ppm before we call it cycled? I currently have 0 ammonia, 5ppm+ nitrite and 40+ nitrate and I refuse to believe it's already cycled. I'm really trying to grasp this concept.

The important part of cycling with the nitrogen cycle is to make the water safe for fish. Ammonia is what is dangerous to fish. Nitrite isn't important to marine fish and nitrate is reported to be safe upwards of 80-100ppm for fish. So, as long as the ammonia can be processed to safe ingredients, the tank is basically cycled. As time goes by, more different types of bacteria will populate and take nitrite to nitrate very quickly as well. But the only reasonable way to reduce nitrate in a system is by water changes or using other means to reduce this chemical...nacro algaes, etc... The nitrate can be reduced to nitrogen gas and expelled, but the bacteria to do this is anaerobic and not quickly evolved in our systems...supposedly this can take place deep in the rock itself after the rock has really matured.

Hope this helps...

 

[reacclimating 2 the hobby]

Welcome to R2R! Beautiful setup!!

 

[Angels best]

Do you water change during cycling for a month?

It has been cycling for almost 3 weeks now and no water change. LFS said no water change as it will slow down cycling.

 

[Lasse]

@Angels best Welcome to R2R

You have got a lot of good advises in this thread, but I will shortly describe how I normally start my aquariums.

First - IMO cycling is done when NO2 reads zero. I normally do not test for NH3/NH4 (ammonia gas (ammoniac)/ammonia ion (ammonium). This because of the oxidation of NH3/NH4 to NO2 (nitrite) is only the first step in the cycling process and the second step NO2->NO3 is the most difficult to achieve. It is true that NO2 not is toxic in saltwater - It is NH3 that can be toxic during certain circumstances. NH3/NH4 are a pair and the ratio between them is decided mostly by temperature and pH. Higher temperature or/and higher pH - more toxic NH3- less not toxic NH4. At a temperature of 25-degree C and pH 8 - around 5 % is present as NH3, same temperature - pH 8.5 - 15 % as NH3 - the toxic form. Most ammonia test measure both forms together (NH3/NH4). The toxic concentration must be calculated through the NH3/NH4 concentration - pH and temperature. Most ammonia test is very difficult to use - they give more or less false results. If you should measure anything during start up - use nitrite measurements. It is a more stable method and when NO2 is zero - the cycling of all stages is done. NO2 in the water give false reading of NO3 (nitrate) and should not been measured before NO2 is zero. If you have 1 ppm in NO2 - the NO3 readings will give a result between 50 and 100 ppm - depended of the brand of the test even if the real NO3 is zero.

I normally start my tank with putting in water, salt, stones and gravel day 1. Waiting to day 3 and then put in one well fed fish - I normally use a clown because it is out in the open even if it is alone. I do not super clean my stones - if there is some PO4 in them - it is only good because it will start the biological processes faster. If there is residues of algae - I let it be for my CUC. I normally introduce my CUC day 4-5 and when it introduced - I start the lighting - often full hours but if it possible with lesser intensity. I do not start my light before introducing the CUC (or start one day before). I do not wait until I see algae before introducing the CUC because if you can see any algae - the biomass of algae is so large that you already lost the battle. Be sure - the algae will be there - the CUC will see it and eat it and hinder it to grow to much. And if there is some algae on the rocks - they will eat that. IMO hermits is the best CUC. Be sure that you get as high species diversity as possible. Urchins is very good to have in the start – I like the black with long spines. Start with small – when they grow larger – they can eat some type of corals. My last Diadema spp took 1.5 years before it become a problem for some corals that I want to have. If you have sand – sea cucumbers is good to have and also sand shifting fishes or fish that dig a little. The aquaria may not look the same day after day – but the sand is clean Different types of snails is good too - both grazers and detritus eaters

Back to the introducing of the fish.

First week I feed the fish with 2-5 frozen adult Artemia every third day, the second week - the same amount every second day and the third week - the same amount every day. After three weeks I rise the amount of food stepwise and start to introduce other fish slowly. During this three week I add nitrification bacteria f some type every day. It can be nitrification bacteria in a bottle, it can be sludge from a working filter, it can be water there you have rinsed used gravel in and it can be filtrate of normal forest soil. Phosphorus I get from stones and the frozen artemia - but around day 5-6 I use to add son NO3 (1- 2 ppm) in order to hinder growth of cyanobacteria and dinoflagellates.

I normally do not do any measurements during this period in order not to panic myself. After the fourth week - I begin to measure NO3 and PO4 and start to adjust them in. Today – we have so many tools to manage the amount of inorganic nutrients (like N3/NH4. NO3 and PO4) that we can let the aquaria mature in a biological way and so to say “have all system running” before we finetune the system. When we start with new water there will be a lack of biological molecules in the water – it is a type of “chemical” water. his molecules is important for the mucus of the fish. I use to put in some water from a working aquaria or use things like Tetras Bactozym in the start in order to make my water more biological. I do not use organic carbon in the upstart (vodka, vinegar, NoPoX or similar products) there is a reason for that – this type of compounds promotes growth of bacteria that can concur the nitrification bacteria in the start. However – after 3 – 4 weeks – when all things works – I can use them if I want in order to control the PO4 and NO3

I do not do any WC before week 4 at least

When I have introduced my CUC – I normally start to put in photosynthetic corals – not the fancy acroporas but corals that is known to be rather easy. Corals is no load on the system – instead they will take away inorganic nutrients.

In the beginning, when all things are new – there is rather few decaying bacteria that can produce NH3/NH4 to the water column – the only source of NH3/NH4 is when you feed the fish. In a few hours it will have released around 50 – 60 % of the surplus nitrogen as NH3/NH4. This is a good dose for the nitrification bacteria because the first step NH3/NH4 -> NO2 use NH3/NH4 as energy – like plants use light, In the second step NO2->NO3 – NO2 is the energy source. With my strict feeding management, I just use the single fish (if it is a large aquarium you can use 2) in order to dose NH3/NH4. Is not much food I use 2 – 5 adults of frozen artemia and I slowly ramp up the load.

I think it is important to seed with nitrification bacteria every day during this slow start – otherwise it will take longer time. The bacteria can be in a bottle (but I only use pure nitrification bacteria – not any perfect blend or so), It can also be gravel or filter sludge from a working aquarium that you have has silted up in one or two litre of water and filtered out through a coffee filter. Take the filtrate an have it in the refrigerator. Shake and put some into the aquarium every day the first 3 weeks The source can be both from salt and fresh water system. If you can´t access this – just take a walk out into the forest – take some surface soil – filter it like before and use the filtrate in the same way. The soil content both nitrification bacteria and archaea (an microorganism that just lately have been found to be active in the first step NH3/NH4 -> NO2)

I have started all my aquaria this way – from Nano to the one I have today. The secret is the feeding pattern and that you have with some inorganic nutrient in order to speed up all bacterial processes from the beginning.

In this way – I get no NH3/NH4 peak and even no NO3 peak. I do not get an “ugly” phase if I use enough of herbivores as soon as I turn on the light. And it should be rathe many. They will find food – for sure – microalgae will come very fast and if you use living rocks – there is food in them. To few and to late – you will lose the battle against the microalgae. And you need some PO4 and NO3 in the water - otherwise you will fight Cyanobacteria or dinoflagellates in the start.

This way of starting an aquarium is not what is recommend in the US – but if it works in Sweden – I think it works in the US to.

If any want to hang me for this write up – do it in my build thread and do not destroy this thread for the OP. This is another point of view – take it for what it is – but if someone want to follow this advises – do not mix in to many other methods – it is normally a catastrophe to mix different methods

Sincerely Lasse