New Tank Syndrome Blues. Someone please help me.

[phildoingthings]

Hello all.

I am about 3 years into this hobby. Started with a 20gal Aqueon I got off Craigslist, and last September upgraded to a brand new RSR 250. I decided to start it with dry rock so I could glue my scape together and make what I wanted opposed to the much more expensive live rock option. Now it being February I have a few problems….
The tank cycled with no issues. I have my original 3 tank members from the start of this hobby still going strong (2 clowns and bangai cardi), as well as some random inverts. However my algae is completely out of control. It seems that almost overnight my scape is completely covered in algae and I want to quit the hobby. I blow down the rocks every day and sift out the debris with a net as best I can. I even scrubbed the few rocks that I have that aren’t glued together in a 5 gallon bucket last water change (Sunday) but already the film of algae is returning.

I had a beautiful purple tang that was added about 3 weeks ago who caught Ich, and I put him into QT with copper immediately and he only made it about 5 days in there until he had a random seizure when I went to feed him and he died overnight. I assume he caught ich from the stress of me blowing down the rocks and scrubbing every day but again I could be wrong I’ve never had a fish get Ich before.

I guess my issue is why why why will the algae not stay at bay? Maybe I have misdiagnosed what kind of algae it is? Do I not have enough good bacteria established to fight it? I also have a few small pieces of coral that have been doing well, and an anemone that is thriving so I don’t think it’s a water quality issue.

I just want this to stop and I’m about ready to just bust the tank down and sell it. I’ve had it at this point and I just want help from someone who knows more than I.

Parameter are all in proper range, temp constant 77.5-78 °F, Salinity 1.024-1.025

running only 2 AI Prime 16HD’s (underpowered for my tank size apparently)
And I run 2 MP40s on the back walls next to the overflow at about 10-20% speed(variable)


Please. Help.

 

[anthonygf]

Interesting good information thanks!

You don't have to stop feeding frozen but mix it up. Most days feed flakes and some days frozen. I think frozen foods are more of a treat.

 

[phildoingthings]

You don't have to stop feeding frozen but mix it up. Most days feed flakes and some days frozen. I think frozen foods are more of a treat.

What flakes do you like? I have PE pellets i use in an autofeeder when i go on long trips

 

[adittam]

Ok, a few things here.

1. You should read all of the sticky threads in the disease forum. You need to let the DT go fallow for 45 days at 82 degrees to get the parasites out of the system. At the same time, treat all of your remaining fish in a QT tank with copper treatment for 30 days.

2. Every new tank goes through an ugly phase. Yours IS going to get worse before it gets better.

3. A 54 gallon tank is nowhere near big enough for a purple tang. It’s not really big enough for any tang, but if you’re dead set on getting another one, the Bristletooth (Ctenochaetus) genus are the only tangs even close to suitable for your tank.

4. No one food is “best” for fish. Feed a wide variety.

5. Don’t give up! Nothing good happens quickly in reefing. A little patience will go a LOT further than trying a quick fix additive.

 

[phildoingthings]

Ok, a few things here.

1. You should read all of the sticky threads in the disease forum. You need to let the DT go fallow for 45 days at 82 degrees to get the parasites out of the system. At the same time, treat all of your remaining fish in a QT tank with copper treatment for 30 days.

2. Every new tank goes through an ugly phase. Yours IS going to get worse before it gets better.

3. A 54 gallon tank is nowhere near big enough for a purple tang. It’s not really big enough for any tang, but if you’re dead set on getting another one, the Bristletooth (Ctenochaetus) genus are the only tangs even close to suitable for your tank.

4. No one food is “best” for fish. Feed a wide variety.

5. Don’t give up! Nothing good happens quickly in reefing. A little patience will go a LOT further than trying a quick fix additive.

DT is fishless now...They are in QT being treated. can I turn the temp up to 82 with inverts and corals? I never heard turning the temp up... I also heard fallow for 60 days not 45

I've seen plenty of tanks my size and smaller with yellows purples etc. very successfully so I don't agree with you on that point. If you get them young and trade them in before they out grow the tank I don't see a problem.

As far as food I was just asking for a recommendation on what he prefers for flake food i understand a varied diet is good.

 

[adittam]

DT is fishless now...They are in QT being treated. can I turn the temp up to 82 with inverts and corals? I never heard turning the temp up... I also heard fallow for 60 days not 45

I've seen plenty of tanks my size and smaller with yellows purples etc. very successfully so I don't agree with you on that point. If you get them young and trade them in before they out grow the tank I don't see a problem.

As far as food I was just asking for a recommendation on what he prefers for flake food i understand a varied diet is good.

Read the sticky threads in the Disease Forum. They’re stickies for good reason - they’re evidence-based.

45 Day Fallow periods

I've been doing some research into the "76 day fallow period". I never heard of that prior to coming to Reef2Reef this past summer. I had always used 32 days as the maximum time for a tomont to remain viable under tropical conditions, and then I would round up to 45 days to help ensure that...

www.reef2reef.com

Current Quarantine Protocol

2023 Quarantine Procedures Jay Hemdal David Scarborough Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are by far the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before...

www.reef2reef.com

I’m clearly not going to talk you out of putting a purple tang in your tank, so you do you. There are people who put big tangs in 40 breeders long term...that doesn’t mean they are good homes for those fish. Read the countless threads on the fish forum about tank size advice for tangs, and you’ll see my opinion is shared by the majority here.

Fish Discussion

Discuss all topics related to salt water aquarium fish. Angelfish, Anthias, Basslets, Blennies, Butterflyfish, Clownfish, Damsels, Dottybacks, Eels, Gobies, Jawfish, Lionfish, Pipefish, Puffers, Rays, Seahorse, Tangs, Triggerfish, Wrasse, and more.

www.reef2reef.com

 

[ccaplinger]

The first thing I'd suggest is changing test kits. The API kits are great for freshwater or for a fish-only marine setup, but they're nowhere near accurate enough for Phosphates in particular. The Hanna ultra low PO2 checker is worth its weight in gold and considering how algae feeds off phosphates when nitrates are present I'm guessing you're under 1, but nowhere near 0. There's nothing wrong with that if you didn't have coral in the tank, but the coral in your pics don't look particularly happy. This looks like the ugly phase that you just have to power through. It's likely going to be worse than normal since you're starting with dry rock that has ample surface area for algae to take hold and no other surface coverage to limit it. I can't comment on the ich or where you brought that into the tank, but I'd suggest turning your lights off and covering the tank to prevent ambient light bleed for several days to help kill off some of the algae. You could also add an algae scrubber if your budget allows it.

 

[phildoingthings]

The first thing I'd suggest is changing test kits. The API kits are great for freshwater or for a fish-only marine setup, but they're nowhere near accurate enough for Phosphates in particular. The Hanna ultra low PO2 checker is worth its weight in gold and considering how algae feeds off phosphates when nitrates are present I'm guessing you're under 1, but nowhere near 0. There's nothing wrong with that if you didn't have coral in the tank, but the coral in your pics don't look particularly happy. This looks like the ugly phase that you just have to power through. It's likely going to be worse than normal since you're starting with dry rock that has ample surface area for algae to take hold and no other surface coverage to limit it. I can't comment on the ich or where you brought that into the tank, but I'd suggest turning your lights off and covering the tank to prevent ambient light bleed for several days to help kill off some of the algae. You could also add an algae scrubber if your budget allows it.

Noted...definitely a lot of negative reviews on the API test kits here. Ill check out the Hanna testers. Im definitely not doing myself a favor using sub par test kits. I have a large Trachyphylia that is super happy as well as a huge piece of LR from my old tank that's completely covered in thriving GSP...but yeah the favias and acans are definitely struggling. I regret going with dry rock route now and definitely wont do that again...Honestly considering just removing it and replacing it with LR now that the tank is running fallow. I ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here mid week that I'm going to install.

 

[anthonygf]

What flakes do you like? I have PE pellets i use in an autofeeder when i go on long trips

For several years I was using Ocean Nutrition, 3 varieties like greens and meaty all mixed up in one container. I just started using TeraMarine large salt water flakes, just came on the market and my fish love it. All the varieties of foods in one container. I feed twice a day to my Yellow Tang, File Fish, Flame Hawk, two 3-stripe Damsels male and female, two Clowns mated pair that was spawning, they laid eggs several times but I am not into raising fry. Flakes must be good food because all my fish are fat and happy, never medicated or quarantined. I also give seaweed on clips for them to graze on a few days a week.

The Yellow Tang I got from Petco 6 years ago was thin and beat up baby with shredded fins. I just temp acclimate for 30 minutes and netted him out and just placed in tank, I did this with all my fish including all my fresh water fish for over forty years. Never lost fish to disease. Of course if you have many high dollar fish you would be foolish not to quarantine and observe for some time, but I think medicating fish that are not sick just for preventative measures is cruel, that is my feelings on this. I see more fish loss when they are medicated than not, it must be hard on them.

 

[W0terMoist]

Hello all.

I am about 3 years into this hobby. Started with a 20gal Aqueon I got off Craigslist, and last September upgraded to a brand new RSR 250. I decided to start it with dry rock so I could glue my scape together and make what I wanted opposed to the much more expensive live rock option. Now it being February I have a few problems….
The tank cycled with no issues. I have my original 3 tank members from the start of this hobby still going strong (2 clowns and bangai cardi), as well as some random inverts. However my algae is completely out of control. It seems that almost overnight my scape is completely covered in algae and I want to quit the hobby. I blow down the rocks every day and sift out the debris with a net as best I can. I even scrubbed the few rocks that I have that aren’t glued together in a 5 gallon bucket last water change (Sunday) but already the film of algae is returning.

I had a beautiful purple tang that was added about 3 weeks ago who caught Ich, and I put him into QT with copper immediately and he only made it about 5 days in there until he had a random seizure when I went to feed him and he died overnight. I assume he caught ich from the stress of me blowing down the rocks and scrubbing every day but again I could be wrong I’ve never had a fish get Ich before.

I guess my issue is why why why will the algae not stay at bay? Maybe I have misdiagnosed what kind of algae it is? Do I not have enough good bacteria established to fight it? I also have a few small pieces of coral that have been doing well, and an anemone that is thriving so I don’t think it’s a water quality issue.

I just want this to stop and I’m about ready to just bust the tank down and sell it. I’ve had it at this point and I just want help from someone who knows more than I.

Parameter are all in proper range, temp constant 77.5-78 °F, Salinity 1.024-1.025

running only 2 AI Prime 16HD’s (underpowered for my tank size apparently)
And I run 2 MP40s on the back walls next to the overflow at about 10-20% speed(variable)


Please. Help.

I went through a really bad ugly stage for my tank. It was cycled, lookin perfect, added corals, was doing fine. Then I noticed seemingly out of nowhere my entire aqua scape and even the sand was covered in this short red hair algae. The algae even snuffed out some of my corals. I added a decent amount of hermits and snails and would pick off big clumps by hand. After a few months it was finally under control and eventually vanished. This was durring my first year of the tank being established.

If the tank is right next to a window that gets sunlight could add to the problem as well.

As you know, excess nutrients will help fuel algae growth. Make sure your bio balls, mechanical filtration, and skimmer are working to their highest potential. Feed just what is needed, do regular water changes.

 

[anthonygf]

Noted...definitely a lot of negative reviews on the API test kits here. Ill check out the Hanna testers. Im definitely not doing myself a favor using sub par test kits. I have a large Trachyphylia that is super happy as well as a huge piece of LR from my old tank that's completely covered in thriving GSP...but yeah the favias and acans are definitely struggling. I regret going with dry rock route now and definitely wont do that again...Honestly considering just removing it and replacing it with LR now that the tank is running fallow. I ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here mid week that I'm going to install.

Hanna, Salifert and Red Sea are the kits I like and use.

Salifert for nitrate, calcium, potassium, Alkalinity
Red Sea for Magnesium and Iodine
Hanna for Phosphorus, Phosphate, Nitrate, Alkalinity, Silica, Calcium and PH

 

[Cyanohater]

Hello all.

I am about 3 years into this hobby. Started with a 20gal Aqueon I got off Craigslist, and last September upgraded to a brand new RSR 250. I decided to start it with dry rock so I could glue my scape together and make what I wanted opposed to the much more expensive live rock option. Now it being February I have a few problems….
The tank cycled with no issues. I have my original 3 tank members from the start of this hobby still going strong (2 clowns and bangai cardi), as well as some random inverts. However my algae is completely out of control. It seems that almost overnight my scape is completely covered in algae and I want to quit the hobby. I blow down the rocks every day and sift out the debris with a net as best I can. I even scrubbed the few rocks that I have that aren’t glued together in a 5 gallon bucket last water change (Sunday) but already the film of algae is returning.

I had a beautiful purple tang that was added about 3 weeks ago who caught Ich, and I put him into QT with copper immediately and he only made it about 5 days in there until he had a random seizure when I went to feed him and he died overnight. I assume he caught ich from the stress of me blowing down the rocks and scrubbing every day but again I could be wrong I’ve never had a fish get Ich before.

I guess my issue is why why why will the algae not stay at bay? Maybe I have misdiagnosed what kind of algae it is? Do I not have enough good bacteria established to fight it? I also have a few small pieces of coral that have been doing well, and an anemone that is thriving so I don’t think it’s a water quality issue.

I just want this to stop and I’m about ready to just bust the tank down and sell it. I’ve had it at this point and I just want help from someone who knows more than I.

Parameter are all in proper range, temp constant 77.5-78 °F, Salinity 1.024-1.025

running only 2 AI Prime 16HD’s (underpowered for my tank size apparently)
And I run 2 MP40s on the back walls next to the overflow at about 10-20% speed(variable)


Please. Help.

I agree sounds like new tank syndrome. I recommend minting the aquarium don't back down, and try to fight it. Add inverts like trochus snails. Over time it will go away and eventually you can relax a little.

 

[Cyanohater]

Hello thank you for responding sorry for the late reply....
Cleanup crew as of today is:
10 Blue Leg Hermits
12 Astrea Snails
2 Emerald Crabs
7 Nassarius Snails

Im using APi test kits and my Nitrate is 0 as well as Phosphate 0

I will attach photos in this reply of the rocks as they are now and eep in mind they were scrubbed on Sunday so it's not as bad as it was but here we go...

Photos Attached in reply...
Water source meaning for RO/DI? or Salt I use to mix? I use a 1 month old BRS 75GPD RO/DI system with Red Sea Salt (black bucket). I live on Long Island so we fortunately have some of the best quality tap water in the US so I doubt its my RO/DI water

Full parameters are as follows:
Temp.: 77.5-78 F
Salinity: 1.024-1.025
pH: 8
Nitrate: 0
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Phosphate: 0


Thanks for the input....As far as filtration I have a simplicity 240DC Protein Skimmer, and a RS Reef Mat 500, I also keep 3 large seeded bio balls in my sump, mainly used for QT purposes. I posted my paramters above.


I hope not! I have photos attached let me hear what you think. Phosphate and Nitrate both tested at 0 on APi test kits

yea you want a little nitrate and a little phosphate. people have stated the correct levels already. You'll starve the corals without havinga little nutrients. Dinos and cyano will grow.

 

[ccaplinger]

Noted...definitely a lot of negative reviews on the API test kits here. Ill check out the Hanna testers. Im definitely not doing myself a favor using sub par test kits. I have a large Trachyphylia that is super happy as well as a huge piece of LR from my old tank that's completely covered in thriving GSP...but yeah the favias and acans are definitely struggling. I regret going with dry rock route now and definitely wont do that again...Honestly considering just removing it and replacing it with LR now that the tank is running fallow. I ordered a UV sterilizer which should be here mid week that I'm going to install.

At this point I think you should be patient and try to wait it out. If you have a tank to put the corals I'd move them for the time being.....maybe a friend can help you out with some tank space if you don't. In the meantime fingers crossed the UV sterilizer help neutralize the free-floating algae and you can add an additional swarm of CUC critters to feast on the big stuff. You might end up sacrificing some snails in the long run, but it would be worth trying to get through this ugly phase. You'll look back on it later and be glad you were patient because you could switch it out with LR and end up back in the same boat later. This too shall pass.

 

[phildoingthings]

At this point I think you should be patient and try to wait it out. If you have a tank to put the corals I'd move them for the time being.....maybe a friend can help you out with some tank space if you don't. In the meantime fingers crossed the UV sterilizer help neutralize the free-floating algae and you can add an additional swarm of CUC critters to feast on the big stuff. You might end up sacrificing some snails in the long run, but it would be worth trying to get through this ugly phase. You'll look back on it later and be glad you were patient because you could switch it out with LR and end up back in the same boat later. This too shall pass.

UV Sterilizer was just installed today....alittle bit of custom work adapting the metric RSR to standard but did a decent job. Waiting on my buddy to print me up some custom mounting brackets for it. Hopefully it makes a difference! I will post some photos when the wiring is all tidied up. Looks like a rats nest at the moment haha

 

[greeno1645]

I am feeding 2x a day frozen brine and mysis half a cube of each type a day. Current stock is 2 clowns, 1 bangai, 4 Neon Damselfish

I'm looking at your photos. Sorry, but I have a lot of questions.

How long has the tank been set up?
Are you defrosting your frozen food in a cup of RO water, and straining it before putting it in your tank?
How many hours are your lights on?
Did you add copipods?
Are you trying to grow macro algae in your refugium?

Just a thought.... try adding some molllies to your tank rather than expensive tangs. Is that reef sacrilege?

I used mollies to cycle the tank my son and I recently set up. They eat a lot of algae and they're cheap, and they don't seem to bother anyone in the tank. Once you're past your algae problem, just take them out.

 

[Dom]

The key here is Dry Rock.

It is important to properly cycle the dry rock before placing it in your tank. Dry rock is loaded with organics. If you don't cure it before placing it in the tank, the organics in the dry rock WILL fuel a ridiculous algae bloom in your tank for months.

The only thing you can do is manual removal until the organics get used up.

 

[Lavey29]

UV Sterilizer was just installed today....alittle bit of custom work adapting the metric RSR to standard but did a decent job. Waiting on my buddy to print me up some custom mounting brackets for it. Hopefully it makes a difference! I will post some photos when the wiring is all tidied up. Looks like a rats nest at the moment haha

While people have success with UV keep in mind it will kill off some good bacteria also. Certain dinos enter the water column at night and if you have that type and run UV at night only you will be successful. Other dinos just go into the sand overnight so UV does not help with those. Stay the course with the corrections you made you will get there. Overstock Tigger pods they will munch away on sand dinos

 

[phildoingthings]

I'm looking at your photos. Sorry, but I have a lot of questions.

How long has the tank been set up?
Are you defrosting your frozen food in a cup of RO water, and straining it before putting it in your tank?
How many hours are your lights on?
Did you add copipods?
Are you trying to grow macro algae in your refugium?

Just a thought.... try adding some molllies to your tank rather than expensive tangs. Is that reef sacrilege?

I used mollies to cycle the tank my son and I recently set up. They eat a lot of algae and they're cheap, and they don't seem to bother anyone in the tank. Once you're past your algae problem, just take them out.

Hey. Tank has been up for 5 months. I don’t know what you mean by strain it but I put the frozen food in a shot glass with tank water until it’s defrosted and then just dump it in…however now that the tank is running fallow I feed 1/4 teaspoon of mixed pellets 3x a week for the inverts. I am also going to be switching to mainly pellets for regular feeding and using the frozen only as a treat in the future. The lights were turned down to only on for 6 hours but since the UV sterilizer was installed it seems that all the nusance algae has been eliminated and now I’m just dealing with some hair algae. I did not add copipods….I wanted to wait to add them u til the tank is no longer fallow. I also don’t have a fuge in my sump (not enough space in the Red Sea Sump especially with the reef mat in there) I have to say a lot of the nasty algae has subsided since adding the UV. Like almost entirely.

 

[phildoingthings]

While people have success with UV keep in mind it will kill off some good bacteria also. Certain dinos enter the water column at night and if you have that type and run UV at night only you will be successful. Other dinos just go into the sand overnight so UV does not help with those. Stay the course with the corrections you made you will get there. Overstock Tigger pods they will munch away on sand dinos

Running the UV at selective times isn’t really feasible for me. I haven’t really heard of them killing good bacteria….I did a good amount of research and this never came up, also UV doesn’t kill anything…it mutates the DNA which stops it from being able to reproduce. I will add Dinos you aren’t the first person to recommend that option. I’m fallow at the moment and wanted to wait to add them when the fish are returned to the DT.

 

[phildoingthings]

The key here is Dry Rock.

It is important to properly cycle the dry rock before placing it in your tank. Dry rock is loaded with organics. If you don't cure it before placing it in the tank, the organics in the dry rock WILL fuel a ridiculous algae bloom in your tank for months.

The only thing you can do is manual removal until the organics get used up.

Lesson learned haha