New to Acros, not going well. :( Any help appreciated!

[X-37B]

I have a 120 and run my temp at 79-81.
I would not want my temp to drop 2° in 10-15 minutes.
Probably not an issue but I would turn up your flow.
I run 2 6095's and 2 6105's Tunze powerheads. 6095 are on pulse and 6105 on constant. All at 100%.
I run 7.3- 7.5 dkh.
Not a fan of high alk but many make it work.
I run my 8 T5's for 9 hours on and off.
No fuge, just filter sock, skimmer, carx.
Po4 .02-.06
No3 1-2.
I feed 3-4 times a day minimum 2 frozen cubes a day.
11 fish and I am not a fan of feeding corals but many do.
3 shrimp
2 large brittle stars
10+ turbo snails
2 pincushion urchins
Over 50 coral and tank is only 10 months old.
First corals went in at 1.5 months.
Just some info as to how my tank is run.
For me it is pick your parameters and keep them stable.
Have a range that you want to keep each parameter at and hold them their.
Just took this pic for reference.
I also do zero water chages but thats another topic.

 

[kevin_e]

Hey Kevin, thanks for the responses, I appreciate you ticking through all of the potential confounding variables, its very helpful to hear 'that sounds OK' for things like PAR / flow. Flow is definitely randomized.

I had thought that ~10 was OK as well. BRS even did some videos a while back showing improved coral growth at higher alk / Ca++ / pH levels, which is (part of the reason) why I originally though I was OK to add some test frags to my system. Maybe it's the combination of low nutrients that I didn't understand.

I think I will pull out 50%+ of the chaeto for now and bring nutrients up. I'll also swap to a new salt and start lowering alk tomorrow when I can get to the store. I'll also pick up some buffer (or HCl - I think I found a recipe from Randy somewhere that I can dig up on lowering alk in newly mixed water).

I am considering raising the pH in the calcium reactor for now - I think the demand in the tank for Ca++ and alk is low at the moment - so maybe that could help. Open to suggestions here - I'm a bit scared to just start messing with it.

Thanks again.

I think you're on the right track. I think almost everyone that has kept SPS is where you are at. But they learned how to read their coral and what neasures to take. I think you're working through that now.

I will suggest trying 1 thing at a time though to see if you can get a better pulse on what may have been an issue and how your tank responds. Through that process you will learn more.

 

[kevin_e]

I wonder if you even need the chiller. My temp fluctuates 2 degrees a day but it's practically over a 12 hr period. Where do you live and what is the ambient temp?

 

[dragonfisher33]

I don’t think it’s your alk. I have my all around that range and no sps suffered

I would like to know where and how you are noticing the sps dying. Could be too much light or other variables. But then 350 isn’t a deal breaker as some reefers run higher than that number

 

[BAUCE]

Your alk is too high. RTN usually starts at the base. The starting at the tips tells me you have burnt tips. Which can happen when you have your alk too high but your nutrients are too low. Also did you check your phosphates? Sorry I skimmed your post but your phosphates might be at 0. You need just a little bit of phosphates for good coral health.

finally, sometimes SPS just up and dies. We are still figuring it out. Do you have any amoxicillin laying around? I have had a lot of success saving corals from RTN (I think you have burned tips though) with an antibiotic dip. RTN is theorized to be caused by bacteria.

Over the course of a day, slowly dial your alk down to at least 9.5, maybe 8.5. When you have ULNS and high alk. The algae cells within the coral cannot keep up.

Yeah, Im assuming its the ULNS with higher alk that isnt working with the sps.
if you want to run nutrients that low your alk needs to be closer to 7-7.5 . If you want to keep your alkalinity higher you'll want the nitrates and phosphates higher.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Interesting. My carx is super easy to run and extremely stable. No controller, ph meter.

Most people have great result with it, I can’t argue with that. It just didn’t work out for me. Maybe I was using the wrong media, or the reactor was not sized properly for my tank. I don’t know really what the problem was. It was growing other sps okay, but acros were always boring colored and slow growers. With the aquaforest balling they have grown more in the past 3 months, than they did with the reactor over a year, and also the colors are now “proper”. Special monties are also more colorful now and growing faster.
I’ve also tried Red Sea’s balling after the reactor and before aquaforest, but that is a nightmare to dial in, as you have to measure both Calcium and Kh and get their ratio right - which leads to measuring every day and chasing numbers. With the aquaforest program I just measure Kh, dose equal amounts of all of their 3 liquids and everything just automatically fells in line.

One downside of it is I must admit is that the solutions are kind of weak, so you burn through of it pretty fast, which is not cheap. On the plus side, with a weaker solution it’s easier to dial in the dosage, and is more forgiving on pump calibration, because +-10ml/day doesn’t really make a difference. With the Red Sea program +-10ml of Calcium for example makes a huuuge difference.

 

[RTL]

I wonder if you even need the chiller. My temp fluctuates 2 degrees a day but it's practically over a 12 hr period. Where do you live and what is the ambient temp?

Thanks for the encouragement Kevin! Totally understand that everyone goes through this and I'm very grateful to everyone who responded to my thread. The community here is a great resource and I appreciate all the feedback. I'm going to plan out my next moves over 24-48 hours and then will implement.

As for the chiller... I live in NYC in a tall apartment building with windows that basically don't open, unfortunately. So basically a closed glass box. It's hard to regulate the tank's temperature with the lights on in the summer. Last year, I had spikes over 84 degrees C even with the AC on full blast (because of the lights on the tank). I picked up the chiller because a) I don't want to run the AC that much b) 84+ is probably too high even with the AC on all the time. I actually just picked it up a couple weeks ago in anticipation of the next few months. It only kicks on once or twice a day for now given the heat hasn't really arrived yet.

I might think of some ways to cool more slowly. Maybe a slower circulating pump to the chiller (it's currently on an independent loop: sump -> chiller -> sump, not sump -> chiller -> display). I am sure there will be trade offs, just need to consider what the best option is.

 

[RTL]

Yeah, Im assuming its the ULNS with higher alk that isnt working with the sps.
if you want to run nutrients that low your alk needs to be closer to 7-7.5 . If you want to keep your alkalinity higher you'll want the nitrates and phosphates higher.

Yep, I'm with you now. I didn't realize the importance of my low nutrient levels given the high alk levels. I'll figure out what is best to change over the next day or so then will make some adjustments.

If it were you, would you rather run high alk and high nutrients or low alk and low nutrients? What threshold would you set for your nutrients? Is 10 N / 0.1 P enough for my current alk? I may just pull out almost all of the chaeto.

 

[RCS82]

Did you start with all dry rock?
I feel like you need some more bio diversity in your tank. You've been cautious about pests but I feel like your tank is kinda too clean, should be seeing some good coraline growth. If you have a source near you, I would try find some good established live rock and try to up your micro fauna. I would ditch the Chaeto and let nutrients go where they want to, but keep an eye on them. And the calcium reactor without corals, I would just dose kalk for a while.

 

[RTL]

Did you start with all live rock?
I feel like you need some more bio diversity in your tank. You've been cautious about pests but I feel like your tank is kinda too clean, should be seeing some good coraline growth. If you have a source near you, I would try find some good established live rock and try to up your micro fauna. I would ditch the Chaeto and let nutrients go where they want to, but keep an eye on them. And the calcium reactor without corals, I would just dose kalk for a while.

Hey RCS - nope, all dead rock. I completely agree with the lack of biodiversity sentiment. I'm very hesitant to get any pests after a smaller euphilia tank I have got aptasia from a LFS a few years back (when I was a brand new reefer - I saw it on the frag plug and thought it was a 'bonus', hah) and it has been an ever-present annoyance in an otherwise beautiful tank.

At this point I'm going to decide if I want to bring alk down or nutrients up (I think your suggestion of getting rid of the chaeto, at least for now, is a probably a very good idea). If I'm still having issues definitely plan to revisit this - maybe some real live rock would be beneficial.

 

[X-37B]

Most people have great result with it, I can’t argue with that. It just didn’t work out for me. Maybe I was using the wrong media, or the reactor was not sized properly for my tank. I don’t know really what the problem was. It was growing other sps okay, but acros were always boring colored and slow growers. With the aquaforest balling they have grown more in the past 3 months, than they did with the reactor over a year, and also the colors are now “proper”. Special monties are also more colorful now and growing faster.
I’ve also tried Red Sea’s balling after the reactor and before aquaforest, but that is a nightmare to dial in, as you have to measure both Calcium and Kh and get their ratio right - which leads to measuring every day and chasing numbers. With the aquaforest program I just measure Kh, dose equal amounts of all of their 3 liquids and everything just automatically fells in line.

One downside of it is I must admit is that the solutions are kind of weak, so you burn through of it pretty fast, which is not cheap. On the plus side, with a weaker solution it’s easier to dial in the dosage, and is more forgiving on pump calibration, because +-10ml/day doesn’t really make a difference. With the Red Sea program +-10ml of Calcium for example makes a huuuge difference.

I run a small Tunze 3171 with Tunze manmade media, so just alk and ca are added. I dose trace elments daily too.
Just shows that their are many ways to run a reef tank.

 

[X-37B]

Did you start with all dry rock?
I feel like you need some more bio diversity in your tank. You've been cautious about pests but I feel like your tank is kinda too clean, should be seeing some good coraline growth. If you have a source near you, I would try find some good established live rock and try to up your micro fauna. I would ditch the Chaeto and let nutrients go where they want to, but keep an eye on them. And the calcium reactor without corals, I would just dose kalk for a while.

Forgot about the live rock lol.
I wont run one without it.
50% live 50% caribsea is what I used on my 120.
Pests yea but you cant get the biodiversity with bottled bacteria imo.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Yep, I'm with you now. I didn't realize the importance of my low nutrient levels given the high alk levels. I'll figure out what is best to change over the next day or so then will make some adjustments.

If it were you, would you rather run high alk and high nutrients or low alk and low nutrients? What threshold would you set for your nutrients? Is 10 N / 0.1 P enough for my current alk? I may just pull out almost all of the chaeto.

I’d run alk between 7 and 8, closer to 7 than 8, and try to nail it to a tenth for at least 3 weeks, measured daily at the same exact time. That way everything else the reactor supplies should also be stable and in the correct ratio to your new alk. If you can do that, then the nutrients will be a walk in the park, and won’t matter THAT much if they’re low or high. (NO3 anywhere between 1-10ppm and PO4 anywhere between 0.03-0.15 will do the job as a start, then you can fine tune them to get that top 20% of colors once the tank/acros stabilise). I’d also advise swapping to Tropic Marin Pro Reef (for one bucket at least as a trial) if you seriously plan on keeping Acros, so that you have a quality salt & the weekly 10% water changes don’t upset the alk/cal/etc. values. In an ideal world you’d want to choose a salt that exactly mixes to the same values you run your tank at.

 

[LC8Sumi]

Okay a tenth over 3 weeks is very hard to do, but if you can keep it +-0.2 for 2-3 weeks, then that is good enough for a great start.

And as others have said, a 78-76 F temp swing is pretty big as well. 76F by itself might be too cold, to begin with:/

 

[X-37B]

Okay a tenth over 3 weeks is very hard to do, but if you can keep it +-0.2 for 2-3 weeks, then that is good enough for a great start.

Mine has been 7 - 7.3dkh for the last 2 months with better growth and colors.
I lowered it from 8.5 for the same reason.
Any salts alk can be lowered easily with sodium bisulfate. Just run an airstone to get rid of co2 for 24hrs.
Works well as esv salts alk is 9.5.

 

[BAUCE]

Yep, I'm with you now. I didn't realize the importance of my low nutrient levels given the high alk levels. I'll figure out what is best to change over the next day or so then will make some adjustments.

If it were you, would you rather run high alk and high nutrients or low alk and low nutrients? What threshold would you set for your nutrients? Is 10 N / 0.1 P enough for my current alk? I may just pull out almost all of the chaeto.

I personally like to run somewhere in the middle. I like to run my nitrates around 5ppm, phosphates around .08 and my alkalinity around 7.8. ULNS is great when done correctly but I find it easier to slip up with.

 

[Formidableone14]

Late to the party but im just curious, are you dosing? How is that your Mg, Cal, Dkh are maintained at stable numbers if you arent, mine drop daily and require regular dosing to maintain those parameters. Are you performing water changes weekly? I personally run my temp at around 78-79 degrees, maintain a DKH of 9 and most will say your phosphates are too high, ideally the goal is near 0 such as .02 and below and with you stating a .1 at times and swings this is also a concern (however ppl are still successful at high values). Im still learning as well so please take this info as such, I more or less want to see experiences of others as well to try and learn.

 

[Graffiti Spot]

Two degree temp swings are not an issue. Neither is temp at 76, I have ran tanks at 75 to 76 average a few times with good results and had temp swings more than 2 or 3 degrees with no issues. Not saying more stability won’t be better but I don’t see issues coming from the temp. I just pulled frags from a friends tank that was well over 84 degrees. It was actually hot to the touch so it was closer to 90 degrees if I had to guess, corals were pale and tan looking but alive and healthy amazingly enough.

 

[Chaz D]

Late to the party but im just curious, are you dosing? How is that your Mg, Cal, Dkh are maintained at stable numbers if you arent, mine drop daily and require regular dosing to maintain those parameters. Are you performing water changes weekly? I personally run my temp at around 78-79 degrees, maintain a DKH of 9 and most will say your phosphates are too high, ideally the goal is near 0 such as .02 and below and with you stating a .1 at times and swings this is also a concern (however ppl are still successful at high values). Im still learning as well so please take this info as such, I more or less want to see experiences of others as well to try and learn.

0 phosphates at an alk of 9 should never be anyone's goal.

 

[X-37B]

Late to the party but im just curious, are you dosing? How is that your Mg, Cal, Dkh are maintained at stable numbers if you arent, mine drop daily and require regular dosing to maintain those parameters. Are you performing water changes weekly? I personally run my temp at around 78-79 degrees, maintain a DKH of 9 and most will say your phosphates are too high, ideally the goal is near 0 such as .02 and below and with you stating a .1 at times and swings this is also a concern (however ppl are still successful at high values). Im still learning as well so please take this info as such, I more or less want to see experiences of others as well to try and learn.

With po4 at .02, mine runs .02-.06 you may want to lower alk closer to 7.
No3 runs 1-2.
I run a carx and only check alk every couple days because its easy. It run 7.3.
My ca and mag get measured once a month if that.
I dose trace elements as I run manmade media in my carx that keeps alk and ca stable.
I would not run a unls system at an alk of 9, but thats me.
Balance and stability is the key imo.