New to breeding bangaii cardinals

Bapeluso

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Hello all, I am looking for some words of wisdom in my breeding adventures. I have a pair of bangaiis that are have delivered their second clutch. The first clutch, I think, was a dud. I had collected the pop and isolated him in a breeder net. I scooped him out when the babies had all been delivered. I could not get them to eat and sadly they didnt make it. The second clutch, I've done the exact same and have been able to get them to eat live baby brine. They have currently been alive now for approximately 10 days and have clearly almost doubled in size. I've been continuing feeding them the live baby brine approximately 4 times a day. My questions are as follows:

1) how long until I try a different form of food?
2) what kind of food will be this next form of food substance?
3) how long until i should separate the weaker individuals in a separate vessel to try to save them from being outcompete for food?

Any and all experienced opinions are appreciated. I've done a lot of research, but have not found many guides for after the first week of survival. Thank you
 

35ppt

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I've been breeding Banggai Cardinals for a couple years now, this is what has worked in my experience.

1) how long until I try a different form of food?
I offer a very small amount at around week two but in my experience one or two of the most aggressive ones might try it but most will not and even the ones that do wont eat enough to stop eating the BBS. By week two they will have been reduced to two feedings a day and around weeks 3 or 4 if they're still not eating frozen I will start feeding BBS every other day while continuing to offer frozen. It helps to offer the frozen at the same time as the BBS at first.

2) what kind of food will be this next form of food substance?
I start with spirulina enriched frozen brine shrimp. That's always their favorite, it's small and soft. I don't thaw it and just break off small piece and break it up in the water. Before long they're eating it out of my fingers. TDO is also a great option. They have pellets sized all the way down to 75-250u and up.

3) how long until i should separate the weaker individuals in a separate vessel to try to save them from being outcompete for food?
I have never bothered but would love to build a breeding system so I could more easily be do that.
 
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Bapeluso

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well, I have frozen BBS and frozen fish eggs. I may try some in the next couple days. I've been keeping 2 small batches of live BBS which were made a few days apart. The first batch I've basically ran out of (or ran out of live in the vessel) which I didnt realize until my second turkey baster full that all that were left were not alive or agile like the newer batch BBS, but the baby bangaiis still were aggressive towards them. I've got a second breeder box for separation because theres starting to be an apparent difference between the stronger and weaker individuals, but not enough aggression between them that they are out competing for food.. If the parents go to brooding the next batch, I will get a 3rd box or setup another small tank for the current batch. I know, 3 breeder boxes sound like a lot, but I dont mind, they are in a 125 and the boxes are off on the sides of the tank close to the heaters and away from the direct flow. Should I try the frozen BBS or fish eggs or get some spirulina brine? Is the spirulina brine adult size brine? Or still BBS?
 
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Bapeluso

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I've been breeding Banggai Cardinals for a couple years now, this is what has worked in my experience.

1) how long until I try a different form of food?
I offer a very small amount at around week two but in my experience one or two of the most aggressive ones might try it but most will not and even the ones that do wont eat enough to stop eating the BBS. By week two they will have been reduced to two feedings a day and around weeks 3 or 4 if they're still not eating frozen I will start feeding BBS every other day while continuing to offer frozen. It helps to offer the frozen at the same time as the BBS at first.

2) what kind of food will be this next form of food substance?
I start with spirulina enriched frozen brine shrimp. That's always their favorite, it's small and soft. I don't thaw it and just break off small piece and break it up in the water. Before long they're eating it out of my fingers. TDO is also a great option. They have pellets sized all the way down to 75-250u and up.

3) how long until i should separate the weaker individuals in a separate vessel to try to save them from being outcompete for food?
I have never bothered but would love to build a breeding system so I could more easily be do that.

Also, which TDO pellets do you recommend exactly? Looking at em now and theres several blends (I guess that's what youd call em)
Also
 

35ppt

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well, I have frozen BBS and frozen fish eggs. I may try some in the next couple days. I've been keeping 2 small batches of live BBS which were made a few days apart. The first batch I've basically ran out of (or ran out of live in the vessel) which I didnt realize until my second turkey baster full that all that were left were not alive or agile like the newer batch BBS, but the baby bangaiis still were aggressive towards them. I've got a second breeder box for separation because theres starting to be an apparent difference between the stronger and weaker individuals, but not enough aggression between them that they are out competing for food.. If the parents go to brooding the next batch, I will get a 3rd box or setup another small tank for the current batch. I know, 3 breeder boxes sound like a lot, but I dont mind, they are in a 125 and the boxes are off on the sides of the tank close to the heaters and away from the direct flow. Should I try the frozen BBS or fish eggs or get some spirulina brine? Is the spirulina brine adult size brine? Or still BBS?
The frozen spirulina brine are adult size but if you don't thaw it and just break a piece off you will get smaller pieces of shrimp. I would try the frozen BBS and fish eggs, in my experience Banggais are not picky eaters.
 

35ppt

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Also, which TDO pellets do you recommend exactly? Looking at em now and theres several blends (I guess that's what youd call em)
Also
The TDO Chroma Boost is what I've been using. It comes in many sizes depending on the stage of fish you're trying to feed. I believe it was designed with clownfish breeding in mind but it's great for any breeding.
TDO-A Chroma BOOSTGranule75 - 250µm1/4" and up
TDO-B1 Chroma BOOSTGranule250 - 360µm1/2" and up
TDO-B2 Chroma BOOSTGranule360 - 650µm1/2" and up
TDO-C1 Extra Small Chroma BOOSTGranule580 - 840µm3/4" and up
TDO-C2 Small Chroma BOOSTGranule840 - 1410µm1" and up
TDO-EP1 Medium Chroma BOOSTPellet1.7mm2" and up
TDO-EP2 Large Chroma BOOSTPellet2.3mm2" and up
 
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Bapeluso

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Sweet thanks for all the helpful tips! I think ima try a small amount of frozen BBS and fish eggs in the morning
 
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Bapeluso

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Update: I tried some frozen BBS and the fish eggs. They definitely responded to both, but the fish eggs were not small enough for all of them to eat. I seen the larger ones eat a couple, but not the whole batch. I think I'll have to try again in a week or so and see if all will eat em.
 

sabeypets

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1) how long until I try a different form of food?
Now, I raise an average of 200 a month and feed them exclusively on TDO B1. If I have a few that won't eat they will get newly hatched brine shrimp the last feeding of the day for around 10 days.


2) what kind of food will be this next form of food substance?
By day 10 I have them eating TDO and LRS fertility frenzy. Newly Hatched Brine shrimp can/will cause SFS (sudden Fright syndrome) if feed exclusively.

3) how long until i should separate the weaker individuals in a separate vessel to try to save them from being outcompete for food?
Now, If there is a big size difference I found the biggest ones eat the smallest ones.
 

35ppt

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1) how long until I try a different form of food?
Now, I raise an average of 200 a month and feed them exclusively on TDO B1. If I have a few that won't eat they will get newly hatched brine shrimp the last feeding of the day for around 10 days.


2) what kind of food will be this next form of food substance?
By day 10 I have them eating TDO and LRS fertility frenzy. Newly Hatched Brine shrimp can/will cause SFS (sudden Fright syndrome) if feed exclusively.

3) how long until i should separate the weaker individuals in a separate vessel to try to save them from being outcompete for food?
Now, If there is a big size difference I found the biggest ones eat the smallest ones.
200 Banggais a month? I'd love to see your setup. How many breeding pairs?
 

sabeypets

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200 Banggais a month? I'd love to see your setup. How many breeding pairs?
400 gallon frag tank with a 4' x 8' footprint, 30 cardinals, unknown how many pair but 5 to 8 males hold a time. I wish there was some way to mark them so I could tell. They lay 40 to 60 eggs per spawn, and 30 to 50 are released. Grow out are 20 and 33 long gallon tanks plumbed together.
 

35ppt

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400 gallon frag tank with a 4' x 8' footprint, 30 cardinals, unknown how many pair but 5 to 8 males hold a time. I wish there was some way to mark them so I could tell. They lay 40 to 60 eggs per spawn, and 30 to 50 are released. Grow out are 20 and 33 long gallon tanks plumbed together.
You've got to take some photos and video! Sounds awesome. You must gather the babies from fake sea urchins or?
 

Seanb1

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For original poster.
How did you go about getting a breeding pair.
How many did you start out with.
These are my favorite saltwater fish.
Have any pics of them ?
 
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Bapeluso

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Ok all, I'm going to try my best with the pics. Bare with me, still new to the breeding,but it's definitely a work in progress. I have one breeding pair, which I've had since I had upgraded tanks and had unfortunately made me lose everything in the tank other than a few corals. I got the pair in may of 2019. It's not easy telling a pair apart, but I've heard that people can tell by their noses and mouths. Females are supposedly more pointed and males are more blunt. I just tried to get a pair that seemed to like each other and follow each other around. I think it was too young to tell. But I am currently raising their second batch which are currently 18 days old. They have, for the majority, grown from about a quarter inch to now about a half to 3 quarters of an inch long. I've been mixing their food up from the live baby brine, to frozen, to the frozen fish eggs. I will be getting some of the TDO food soon, been really sick lately and have missed work and not had extra funds. The male is currently holding clutch number 3. I started with 18 babies in clutch number 2 and still have all 18 living. I had separated some of the smaller individuals in a second breeder box, but it looks like I'm going to have to move a few around again
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Bapeluso

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Sorry, I dont know why some photos posted multiple times. Maybe I should post a thread in the tank section and show the whole thing. It's not the prettiest tank ever, but it's my tank and everything is happy/getting happier. It's still a work in progress
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Bapeluso

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Now, is it weird that my cardinals are super territorial of my carpet anemone? My clowns would go towards it like they wanna host it, but the bangaii pair wont let em anywhere near it
 
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Bapeluso

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Hello all, here is an update for anybody that is interested. Clutch number 2 are still alive. I did lose one due to competition for food, but still have 17. The larger individuals are currently about the size of half dollars if you include their find. All are eating fish eggs, and the larger individuals are actually eating omega brine. They are currently about 6 weeks old. Last night, the male let out clutch number 3 and are already eating live baby brine with great response. I cant hardly count how many there are, but I'm counting 23... (I think) here's a couple photos and I'll have more tonight! The first 2 are new babies, the third are the 6 week old, and the 4th is somewhat of a comparison in size of first baby to 6 week olds
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