New to the hobby, kinda scared by the discussions here

Zionas

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Apart from getting as much CB livestock as possible, I’m also trying to not stock too heavily. Plenty of people manage very heavily stocked tanks to great success, but I’m not at that level of experience yet, so I’d rather stock a bit more moderately.
 

mjszos

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Think of QT being proactive, rather than reactive. I don't personally QT my fish (don't have the space for a setup, and my bio is maxed out at this point). But it's a heck of a lot better to monitor your new additions in an isolated environment than risk them infecting your whole tank. No need to dose them with meds immediately, just great to isolate them from the rest of the pack to make sure 1 sick fish doesn't turn into 20.
 

threebuoys

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Welcome to R2R and the hobby!

As you can see by the earlier responses, opinions and personal opinions run the gamut. The more you read, the more options you will see. Many are vocal. How do you decide who to follow?

My suggestion is read the stickies at the top of the Fish Disease Treatment and Diagnosis forum.

You'll see there how recommendations have evolved a bit, but, more importantly, you will read recommendations written by professionals who in many cases have devoted their life to their discipline. Same goes for many of the other forums, particularly "Reef Chemistry" which you will soon find is a major factor in successful reef tanks.

Form your game plan based on what you read in the stickies, use the other feedback to understand the successes and failures other have had keeping in mind that probably no two hobbyists do everyting in exactly the same way even when they try, and many are passionate to a fault to express their opinions.
 

fishybizzness

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Its pretty sad to me that these conversations come up so often. It's pretty overwhelming for a new aquarist to understand that the fish they are paying their hard earned money for are probably sick and stand a good chance of dying no matter what they do. If they just dump them in a new tank, the odds of them surviving are not great. A new tank just doesn't have the proper biome for fish to thrive. If they try to quarantine, the odds of them dying are also great due to lack of experience with the process. I feel that the supply chain is just not held accountable for any of the issues. They know that society in general wants stuff for as cheaply as they can get it so there's no incentive to spend the Xtra time and money to ensure that they are selling healthy livestock. They know that if they charge more for ensuring that the fish are healthy as possible that their sales will drastically decline with the possibility of them going out of business. We have become a Walmart society and I don't think that will ever change. It really surprises me that anyone makes it past the first year.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I am just getting ready to setup my 40 gallon breeder AIO. I have a 10 gallon tank for qt purposes. It kinda feels a little scary to face the fact that any fish or coral I purchase must be assumed to be diseased in some way and in need of immediate treatment. I am prepared to do this and hope I can do it properly. I will follow the guidelines set here, any other insight or help is greatly appreciated.

I strongly urge everyone to prophylactically treat all new fish and isolate (or at least dip) all new corals. Off the cuff (I haven't had time to crunch the numbers) but IMO, well over 90% of the acute, contagious diseases issues we see here were on fish that were not quarantined properly. The first page here lists my current quarantine protocol:

If you aren't able to quarantine, I would strongly urge you to buy prequarantined fish from a good source. After that, if you stick with captive raised fish (that have NOT been mixed with wild fish) that works well. At the very least, only buy fish that have been in your dealer's tanks for at least two weeks (but this is a distant third choice).

Jay
 

Jay Hemdal

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New fish can and do harbor sub-acute infections that need to be treated before they become acuter and spread to other fish.

Please read this process:

And this article on biosecurity:

Jay
 
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Jim Bonds

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You're right. I think that's a big part of it as well. People not giving the QT tank enough time to mature and stabilize after the initial cycle.
It depends on the treatment. Hyposalinity treatments will kill most of the bacteria in the aquarium anyway and if you have a healthy culture before starting the treatment then you'll just have more nutrients polluting the tank when you kill the bacteria. Copper is also toxic to nitrifying bacteria at certain levels and at 0.3mg/L it inhibits ammonia and nitrite oxidation. It's a good practice to conduct large daily water changes and closely monitor pH, NH3/NH4+ levels, as well as NO2- levels in a QT anyways.

I will usually treat new fish with hypo salinity since it gives them a temporary immune system boost anyway. Because returning to 35 0/00 salinity must be done slowly it gives me plenty of time to observe the fish and make sure no further treatments are required.
 

Tamberav

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I just want to point our that Divers Den is
not a true quarantine
and not all their captive bred fish come directly from the breeders.

By that I mean you can not expect their fish to be free of disease like other venders (Dr reef, TSM, etc).
 

scolson

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I'm with you on being new and intimidated, and I think you made the right choice to commit to QT.

I did have a fish only saltwater tank a long time ago. The way things were done back then are far different than now, . What I do remember most about that experience is loosing fish to ich.

I know there are many opinions about the value, and in some cases peril of QT. I wasn't going to QT because I didn't think I had the space. After a lot of thinking about this, I've decided that QT makes sense so I found the space to make it happen.
 

threebuoys

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It depends on the treatment. Hypo-salinity treatments will kill most of the bacteria in the aquarium anyway and if you have a healthy culture before starting the treatment then you'll just have more nutrients polluting the tank when you kill the bacteria. Copper is also toxic to nitrifying bacteria at certain levels and at 0.3mg/L it inhibits ammonia and nitrite oxidation. It's a good practice to conduct large daily water changes and closely monitor pH, NH3/NH4+ levels, as well as NO2- levels in a QT anyways.

I will usually treat new fish with hypo salinity since it gives them a temporary immune system boost anyway. Because returning to 35 0/00 salinity must be done slowly it gives me plenty of time to observe the fish and make sure no further treatments are required.
Jim, sorry, but I have to disagree with you on some of your statements. Copper Power, Copper Safe and Cupramine administered at the therapeutic levels recommended in the current protocols will not destroy the nitrifying bacteria required to process ammonia. Large daily water changes are not required during quarantine if the quarantine tank has been properly cycled. During quarantine, copper should be monitored regularly to be sure it does not fall below therapeutic levels. Ammonia should also be monitored if the tank is not cycled. Nitrates will rise during the quarantine period and should be monitored occasionally but will not likely rise to toxic levels for the fish if the levels were low at the beginning. I know this from personal experience through multiple quarantine cycles as well as what others have likewise documented. Yes, if the nitrifying bacteria were to all die, ammonia would not be processed and would rise to toxic levels. But that is not what happens. Nor, does any dead bacteria that does occur significantly contribute to any pollution in the quarantine tank.

Water changes during the praziquantel stage of the quarantine protocol is recommended to remove as much of the bacteria bloom that occurs and quickly consumes the praziquantel so that the second or third doses have more time to be effective before the prazi is consumed.

I have not used hypo-salinity, but I agree it is an alternative to copper treatment if administered correctly for certain parasites, but not all that copper will treat. Based on other reports on the forums I highly doubt the nitrifying bacteria will be killed by the lower salinity to the point that the nitrogen cycle is stopped.

I think the decision to quarantine, not quarantine, treat with copper, not treat with copper, or treating with hypo-salinity is very much a personal decision. I prefer to refer new hobbyists to the stickies when I can because generally they have been written by folks with much more experience than I.
 

Wasabiroot

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I won't say much that hasn't already been put better here, but I would say don't worry so much that it makes you nervous. Really, the idea is to focus on the old "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure".- you're giving your corals and livestock a healthcare screening like a checkup at a doctors. These are occasionally sensitive animals and it's important to be diligent for potential pests and a best bet to dip. Most businesses have a good reputation from healthy livestock, so it's in their best interest to provide disease free coral for the purchaser. That doesn't mean QT isn't still an excellent idea. it's more like a customs officer type approach. "you carrying on anything you need to declare??". :)
 
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roccomorra

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Wow! So many giving great advice! I will be setting up the QT this next week. In reading I am seeing some saying that you need to measure the salinity of the water the new fish is packed in and initially try to match it. If you are using actual seawater purchased from lfs, how do you mange the drop in salinity?
 

Isopod80

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Wow! So many giving great advice! I will be setting up the QT this next week. In reading I am seeing some saying that you need to measure the salinity of the water the new fish is packed in and initially try to match it. If you are using actual seawater purchased from lfs, how do you mange the drop in salinity?
By adding freshwater RODI. Same with topping off the tank. Salt doesn't evaporate, only water does. You only add salt when you physically remove water like during a water change. Natural seawater tends to have a higher salinity than many chose to run their tanks with. You may wish to dilute it a bit. I'd be careful using NSW for quarantine purposes.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Wow! So many giving great advice! I will be setting up the QT this next week. In reading I am seeing some saying that you need to measure the salinity of the water the new fish is packed in and initially try to match it. If you are using actual seawater purchased from lfs, how do you mange the drop in salinity?
If the LFS is selling natural seawater, maybe they are using it also, then you just need to acclimate for temperature and pH, and that can be done in 30 minutes.

If the LFS is holding fish at a lower SG, below 1.022, then shame on them(grin). You would need to remove small amounts of tank water (say 5% of the volume) and then add dechlorinated tap water, or RO water to your tank to lower the SG in advance, just repeat the process until you are matched with your dealer's water.

Jay
 

vetteguy53081

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I agree on trust of vendor in addition to proper inspection of fish for disease, injury, aggression, should be eating, proper breathing and proper acclimation.
35+ years in hobby and former marine store owner and i do not quarantine, yet have no issues. Many here know wy tanks and it is obvious that I have healthy and happy specimens and Many fish/coral

660g tangs 7.3.jpg
 

Jim Bonds

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Jim, sorry, but I have to disagree with you on some of your statements. Copper Power, Copper Safe and Cupramine administered at the therapeutic levels recommended in the current protocols will not destroy the nitrifying bacteria required to process ammonia. Large daily water changes are not required during quarantine if the quarantine tank has been properly cycled. During quarantine, copper should be monitored regularly to be sure it does not fall below therapeutic levels. Ammonia should also be monitored if the tank is not cycled. Nitrates will rise during the quarantine period and should be monitored occasionally but will not likely rise to toxic levels for the fish if the levels were low at the beginning. I know this from personal experience through multiple quarantine cycles as well as what others have likewise documented. Yes, if the nitrifying bacteria were to all die, ammonia would not be processed and would rise to toxic levels. But that is not what happens. Nor, does any dead bacteria that does occur significantly contribute to any pollution in the quarantine tank.

Water changes during the praziquantel stage of the quarantine protocol is recommended to remove as much of the bacteria bloom that occurs and quickly consumes the praziquantel so that the second or third doses have more time to be effective before the prazi is consumed.

I have not used hypo-salinity, but I agree it is an alternative to copper treatment if administered correctly for certain parasites, but not all that copper will treat. Based on other reports on the forums I highly doubt the nitrifying bacteria will be killed by the lower salinity to the point that the nitrogen cycle is stopped.

I think the decision to quarantine, not quarantine, treat with copper, not treat with copper, or treating with hypo-salinity is very much a personal decision. I prefer to refer new hobbyists to the stickies when I can because generally they have been written by folks with much more experience than I.
You may be right. I'm not a marine biologist. My brother is and I just do what he tells me. He's done the research in a laboratory setting following scientific protocols and I, like many of us here, am just regurgitating information from sources like him or, worse, anecdotal experiences, and playing with aquariums in my home.
 
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roccomorra

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My first two fish I will purchase will be tank bred clowns. Does the full quarantine protocol apply to them in this circumstance?
 
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