Next steps after Cupramine and Hypo

[tim132]

After what appeared to be a successful copper treatment (Cupramine, tested with Hanna) of 30 days, fish looked much better. No ich/velvet behavioural/visual symptoms so I removed all copper and I switched to 15ppt for treatment of suspected prazi-resistant flukes.

Fish began flashing again once the salinity was dropped and over the course of 7 days the flashing has become more frequent and some fish are displaying rapid breathing.

- Fish are still eating mostly, maybe a slight appetite suppression.
- Still no visual signs of ich/velvet.
- Lots of surface agitation (HOB filter, air stone, wave maker).
- pH kept between 7.7-8.0 during 15ppt.
- Ammonia levels 0.
- 50% WC every 4 days.

I'm thinking my next course of action has to be to raise the salinity back up and try an alternative treatment for flukes (Flubendazole).

Do you agree with this method and what should I do if flubendazole is unsuccessful? Could I be looking at some form of internal flagellate which needs medicated food to treat?

 

[ehealy13]

Hate to hear that Tim. On day 7 of my cupramine extraction myself with Cuprisorb and water changes. Following.

 

[tim132]

Thanks Ed! It's a massive bummer. I'm just praying it's not encysted ich/velvet which has lived through the 30 days copper. All was great until the copper was out and salinity dropped. Hoping it's just a type of gill/internal fluke which can be treated.

I hope your QT was successful, fingers crossed for you!!!

 

[ehealy13]

Fish are eating and behaving normally, thankfully. The trigger's fins are healed/healing and the only real remaining sign of the infection is some scaring on the body of the trigger, as the hippo tang was nipping at him while he was struggling. Nothing appears to be open, just scar tissue.

 

[ehealy13]

Cupramine barely detectable in the SeaChem test this morning. How long did it take you to get to reading of 0?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

After what appeared to be a successful copper treatment (Cupramine, tested with Hanna) of 30 days, fish looked much better. No ich/velvet behavioural/visual symptoms so I removed all copper and I switched to 15ppt for treatment of suspected prazi-resistant flukes.

Fish began flashing again once the salinity was dropped and over the course of 7 days the flashing has become more frequent and some fish are displaying rapid breathing.

- Fish are still eating mostly, maybe a slight appetite suppression.
- Still no visual signs of ich/velvet.
- Lots of surface agitation (HOB filter, air stone, wave maker).
- pH kept between 7.7-8.0 during 15ppt.
- Ammonia levels 0.
- 50% WC every 4 days.

I'm thinking my next course of action has to be to raise the salinity back up and try an alternative treatment for flukes (Flubendazole).

Do you agree with this method and what should I do if flubendazole is unsuccessful? Could I be looking at some form of internal flagellate which needs medicated food to treat?

Not all flukes respond to hypo, just Neobenedenia and some others. There are actually brackish water flukes that get into some dealers systems and then infect fish moving through them.
I’ve not used flubendazole, but have had issues with fenbendazole. Noga gives the flubendazole dose as 2 mg/l active ingredient, but then says it is used for treating hydra in FW tanks.
Jay

 

[tim132]

Cupramine barely detectable in the SeaChem test this morning. How long did it take you to get to reading of 0?

Just a couple of large water changes and I was pretty much back to 0 within a few days Ed. Then I just added a little carbon to remove whatever was left.

Not all flukes respond to hypo, just Neobenedenia and some others. There are actually brackish water flukes that get into some dealers systems and then infect fish moving through them.
I’ve not used flubendazole, but have had issues with fenbendazole. Noga gives the flubendazole dose as 2 mg/l active ingredient, but then says it is used for treating hydra in FW tanks.
Jay

Perhaps I was mistaken thinking they were Neobenedenia then Jay. A week should've been long enough to have seen an effect if it was neo surely.

Strange how they had completely stopped flashing during copper treatment. Could the copper have reduced the chance of infection/slowed reproduction rates of flukes?

 

[ehealy13]

Just a couple of large water changes and I was pretty much back to 0 within a few days Ed. Then I just added a little carbon to remove whatever was left.

Thanks Tim, I'm hoping for a similar outcome, but think it may take 2 weeks or so, since I had to treat my DT, that has live rock and sand. Still waiting for my Hanna, the LFS ordered it 2 weeks ago!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Just a couple of large water changes and I was pretty much back to 0 within a few days Ed. Then I just added a little carbon to remove whatever was left.

Perhaps I was mistaken thinking they were Neobenedenia then Jay. A week should've been long enough to have seen an effect if it was neo surely.

Strange how they had completely stopped flashing during copper treatment. Could the copper have reduced the chance of infection/slowed reproduction rates of flukes?

There is a brackish water capsalid fluke that I cannot tell from Neobenedenia. It apparently shows up from dealers importing brackish water fish like lookdowns.
A variety of things can make fish scratch, the copper may be reducing some protozoan? Some really small flukes may be impacted by copper, but it doesn’t seem to eradicate them.
Jay

 

[tim132]

Cheers Jay! It does appear that the copper has suppressed the flukes (if that's what it is) I guess it's just a case of working through the symptoms and finding out what works. Isn't easy is it!

Such a huge learning curve and I'd be lost without your help, I'll certainly be donating to this fantastic site once I have some spare cash.

I'm determined to get these fish disease free!!

 

[tim132]

Thanks Tim, I'm hoping for a similar outcome, but think it may take 2 weeks or so, since I had to treat my DT, that has live rock and sand. Still waiting for my Hanna, the LFS ordered it 2 weeks ago!

How frustrating! Times like this when you wish you'd just ordered one online

There's no major rush is there when you're fish only.

 

[ehealy13]

How frustrating! Times like this when you wish you'd just ordered one online

There's no major rush is there when you're fish only.

Correct, the only real urgency is that I'm nearing the end of the SeaChem kit and would hate to buy another, as I really didn't find it to provide the clarity in result(s) I was expecting.