Nitrate and Phosphorus Control via Phytoplankton Additions?

[Halal Hotdog]

I am curious if anyone was able to verify if the phytoplankton is actually reducing the nitrates and phosphates? I find the concept interesting, however not sure if it is valid. F2 is VERY nutrient rich, to be able to add a solution containing that and yet still reduce N and PO4 is amazing. Carbon dosing has worked for me, however if this can do the same then I would switch without a second thought. My system is a poor one to test on due to changing in nutrient levels from week to week, as well as an addiction of a carbon source.

 

[MrWheelock]

Dana,
As always thank you so much for the time and effort you've put into this! Great read with lots of information for me to process. I look forward to seeing how this all goes.

 

[tripdad]

I am curious if anyone was able to verify if the phytoplankton is actually reducing the nitrates and phosphates?

In an earlier post Dana offered a couple of theories as to what's happening. If I understood correctly he wonders if it's the increase in biomass uptaking the phyto additions that are actually reducing nitrates and phosphates. As you state, it was a surprise as the phyto carries a lot of nutrients with it from the f/2.

 

[tripdad]

On a side note... those of you culturing phyto on site with f/2, are you washing it before adding it to the aquarium to remove the f/2 residue or just adding the culture whole?

 

[erk]

On a side note... those of you culturing phyto on site with f/2, are you washing it before adding it to the aquarium to remove the f/2 residue or just adding the culture whole?

I add with f/2. I haven't seen a change in NO3. PO4 increased, but I also stopped GFO, so it isn't definitive what is causing the increase. No increase in NO3 would indicate that something is going on to control nutrients. I don't have any macro algae. I'm also dosing a pretty low amount of phyto and only for 2 weeks. I'm increasing the amount I dose so maybe I will see a change? I will keep checking NO3 and PO4 to make sure.

 

[Reef Nutrition]

This is a good discussion. We have been selling live phytoplankton into the hobby since 2005. Over the years, we've heard anecdotal evidence from our customers stating that our live phyto product, Phyto-Feast Live, resulted in less nuisance algae; however, we have yet to hear solid evidence that live phytoplankton can be effective at bioremediation, and, most importantly, can be replicated in any tank. I started a thread a while ago about this same topic with no insights from anyone. I was always under the impression that it would take significant amounts of live phytoplankton to noticeably reduce nitrate and phosphate, and then you have to remove it (skimmer). With this being said, I look forward to following along.

-Chad

 

[salty joe]

I've been dosing phyto now for 2 weeks. Wasn't able to dose at the full concentration that I originally planned due to almost killing off my phyto culture. Nanno doesn't like it hot, lesson learned.

How warm was your Nanno?

 

[erk]

How warm was your Nanno?

I'd guess mid to high 80s. I used a ribbon of grow LEDs and wrapped them around the jar. Without anything in the jar, the air temp was getting up around 83 or so after a couple minutes. I thought with water in the jar, shouldn't be too bad as long as I don't run it 24/7. Then I left the light on for 24 hours and soon after the cells started falling out of suspension. Its all good now though. I use a light panel held about an inch away from the jar surface. Not sure on water temp, but I'd estimate low 80s after having the light on for 12 hours. Growing Nanno incredibly fast now.

 

[User]

I'd guess mid to high 80s. I used a ribbon of grow LEDs and wrapped them around the jar. Without anything in the jar, the air temp was getting up around 83 or so after a couple minutes. I thought with water in the jar, shouldn't be too bad as long as I don't run it 24/7. Then I left the light on for 24 hours and soon after the cells started falling out of suspension. Its all good now though. I use a light panel held about an inch away from the jar surface. Not sure on water temp, but I'd estimate low 80s after having the light on for 12 hours. Growing Nanno incredibly fast now.

Yeah, anything over an amp run through 3feet/1m of those tapes gets warm enough to heat a small enclosure. Need active fan cooling or a big heat sink. Hard to do when it’s wrapped around the container. It’s a trade off between heat management and lumens. I’d rather use a panel with a big heatsink and drive fast growth viacmore lumen then try to manage temp and limit growth

I’m working on my phytofarm V2. Lights are going to be based on an 8x4 x0.25 aluminum plate heat sink with 3 feet of led tape (6500k- I like the green colour for monitoring density) packed onto it run at 1.2amps. 1750 lumens. This module is for a single 1 gallon cheese puff barrel. 4 of these in the Farm. Individually switched.

FWIW, nanno optimal growth temp is 83oF as long as lumens aren’t limiting. But it does have a hard decline around 87.

I’ll post pics as I get it built

 

[User]

I'd guess mid to high 80s. I used a ribbon of grow LEDs and wrapped them around the jar. Without anything in the jar, the air temp was getting up around 83 or so after a couple minutes. I thought with water in the jar, shouldn't be too bad as long as I don't run it 24/7. Then I left the light on for 24 hours and soon after the cells started falling out of suspension. Its all good now though. I use a light panel held about an inch away from the jar surface. Not sure on water temp, but I'd estimate low 80s after having the light on for 12 hours. Growing Nanno incredibly fast now.

Which panel did you get?

I was thinking about the 12x12 75w full spectrum x3 for my chaeto fuge, but I’m going to do a macro planted instead so changed direction

 

[Dana Riddle]

As a followup, the Hach block heater and reagents for total P, acid hydrolyzable P, and Total N have arrived. The last reagent (sodium hydroxide) for CO2 testing is scheduled for shipping today. Once I get that, I'll plan to spend a full day or two in the lab. Since my last post, nitrate and ortho-P has dropped to the lowest concentrations I've seen.

 

[erk]

Which panel did you get?

I was thinking about the 12x12 75w full spectrum x3 for my chaeto fuge, but I’m going to do a macro planted instead so changed direction

I went with a small 3000K panel off Amazon. It comes with 2 aluminum backed LED panels that are ~10x4 inches but can be linked together to make a 10x8 inch panel. I was considering 6500K, but the availability of 3000-3500K units was much greater and cheaper. I have achieved pretty impressive growth with it so far. I need to take come measurements and see how many cells I'm getting.

I measured NO3 and PO4 this past weekend. NO3 is stuck at 25ppm. PO4 is up to .288ppm, but this is about what it was prior to running GFO. So I'm not surprised. I'm dosing ~100ml of green water a day. Concentration is unknown, but I'll do a count this weekend.

 

[User]

I went with a small 3000K panel off Amazon. It comes with 2 aluminum backed LED panels that are ~10x4 inches but can be linked together to make a 10x8 inch panel. I was considering 6500K, but the availability of 3000-3500K units was much greater and cheaper. I have achieved pretty impressive growth with it so far. I need to take come measurements and see how many cells I'm getting.

I measured NO3 and PO4 this past weekend. NO3 is stuck at 25ppm. PO4 is up to .288ppm, but this is about what it was prior to running GFO. So I'm not surprised. I'm dosing ~100ml of green water a day. Concentration is unknown, but I'll do a count this weekend.

Got a link? Sounds similar to what’s im making- would be nice to compare.

Cheers

 

[erk]

Got a link? Sounds similar to what’s im making- would be nice to compare.

Cheers

Light Link

I posted a pic of my Nanno setup on my tank thread.

Edit: R2R wont let me paste Amazon links for some reason. But hyperlinks are ok.

 

[salty joe]

With the right lights-ideal conditions-what do you guys think is the quickest turnaround to split a culture?

 

[User]

With the right lights-ideal conditions-what do you guys think is the quickest turnaround to split a culture?

It really depends on your species and split ratio. To keep Nannochloropsis in a healthy exponential phase growth, a 1:3-1:4 split ratio is good. Ie, remove 2/3rd of the current culture, top up the remaining 1/3rd to previous level is a 1:3 ratio. At maximal growth, a 1:3 split will be ready in 6-7 days. If you do 1:4 it’s another doubling time and a half, so 38 ish hours. 8.5- 9 days or so.

That is dependent upon a healthy culture and an accurate split ratio.

Also- no two cultures are going to be the same, so YMMV but this should be close.

 

[salty joe]

I'm culturing four two liter bottles of both Nanno and Tetra. I have four bottles of Tetra in one 5 gal bucket and the Nanno is in another. I have a 12W (75W equivalent) soft white LED in the middle. I've been splitting the cultures in half every 8 days.

I wonder if I were to replace the bulb with sixteen 1W 660nm LEDs if I could split the cultures in half every four days, doubling my current output.

 

[User]

I'm culturing four two liter bottles of both Nanno and Tetra. I have four bottles of Tetra in one 5 gal bucket and the Nanno is in another. I have a 12W (75W equivalent) soft white LED in the middle. I've been splitting the cultures in half every 8 days.

I wonder if I were to replace the bulb with sixteen 1W 660nm LEDs if I could split the cultures in half every four days, doubling my current output.

I was running 20w (better to use lumens, as watts changes with efficiency and brand of led) 1400 lumens of 6500k cool white/daylight.

All red would be an improvement (maybe 130%, not double) over the soft white, but better would be a 4 red: 1 blue ratio, around 30w per 1ftx6 inch area. You can find red+blue grow lights on eBay or amazon. Wouldn’t get you to double yield unless you pushed the watts a bit more

I prefer daylight spectrum personally- your cultures will be that awesome emerald color that you can use to judge density. With the red- they’ll look black, since there’s a no green incoming wavelengths to be reflected by the algae.

 

[User]

I'm culturing four two liter bottles of both Nanno and Tetra. I have four bottles of Tetra in one 5 gal bucket and the Nanno is in another. I have a 12W (75W equivalent) soft white LED in the middle. I've been splitting the cultures in half every 8 days.

I wonder if I were to replace the bulb with sixteen 1W 660nm LEDs if I could split the cultures in half every four days, doubling my current output.

You Know what- 16w will probably work for 2 liter bottles in a 5 gal bucket. The reflective properties of the white plastic will bounce it around and increase efficiency. If you wanted to line the inside with foil or Mylar reflective sheet- even more better

Also, possibly more critical is light cycle. 18 on 6 off is optimal for photosynthesis. The cells need the dark period to perform the final steps of metabolism and are critical. Without it, they can’t make the final carbohydrate units to store, and essentially starve to death. Slow decline, yellowing then a sudden crash.

 

[User]

I'm culturing four two liter bottles of both Nanno and Tetra. I have four bottles of Tetra in one 5 gal bucket and the Nanno is in another. I have a 12W (75W equivalent) soft white LED in the middle. I've been splitting the cultures in half every 8 days.

I wonder if I were to replace the bulb with sixteen 1W 660nm LEDs if I could split the cultures in half every four days, doubling my current output.

And another Q since my brain is now thinking about phyto...

What are you doing with all of that?

Im cultivating two pod species and planning to dose my DT once I start my coral stocking.

Cheers