Nitrates and Phosphates Impossible to Reduce - Vodka/Vinegar Dosing, Chaeto, Oversized Filtration

[Lil Puff]

Hi guys, I have a 3 year old 400L predator soft coral reef aqurium thats really strugging with nutrient problems. I have tried just about everything but it just won't go down. My chaeto is growing fast. I have been dosing a vodka, vinegar and ro/di mix over the past few months and has been slowly increased to 70mls daily which from what I've read should have plummetted my nitrates - especially from that high of a dose. I can definetly see and smell the difference in the skimate. All my oversized filtration seems to be working but its just not going down for whatever reason. I am really trying to get my soft corals to grow and to get corraline algae. Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks heaps! Photos are included on post. Excuse the film algae on the glass

Filtration:
Buuble magus filter roller
Mantis tornado 180 protein skimmer (600L - 1500L)
Aqua uv 57watt
Refugium with chaeto
Bioballs

Paramaters:
Nitrate - 100ppm
Phosphate - 0.25ppm
Alkalinity - 7.8dKH
Magnesium - 1260ppm
Calcium - 405ppm

Dosing:
70mls vodka, vinegar and ro/di mix daily

Display:

Sump:

Skimmate:

Chaeto:

 

[Cichlid Dad]

3/4 to 1 pound rock per gallon. Get your rock to this amount. Either sump and tank or tank only. Toss bio balls. Water changes and add sand to the tank, or sump where the bio balls are.

 

[Doctorgori]

Have you tried wet skimming plus backing off the food a lil

 

[Lil Puff]

Have you tried wet skimming plus backing off the food a lil

I Haven't tried that. Will start slowing down on feeding and wet skimming. Any other ideas?

 

[Lil Puff]

3/4 to 1 pound rock per gallon. Get your rock to this amount. Either sump and tank or tank only. Toss bio balls. Water changes and add sand to the tank, or sump where the bio balls are.

What advantages does rock and sand have over bioballs? I'll see what i can work out. Any other advice?

 

[Doctorgori]

I Haven't tried that. Will start slowing down on feeding and wet skimming. Any other ideas?

Maybe be more aggressive with pulling the chaeto

 

[Cichlid Dad]

What advantages does rock and sand have over bioballs? I'll see what i can work out. Any other advice?

Bio balls can become a nitrate factory. Some say no they don't, you have a nitrate problem so I would remove that possibility. They are not needed in a reef tank. Your rock is your bio filter. Water changes will reduce your nitrates. I would do large water change weekly until they get to where you want them

 

[Saltees]

I removed all my media, siporax, biosphere, bricks, etc. with only 1” sand, my NO3 went zero. I have a full tank of SPS with lots of fishes. Nutrient export with BK Skimmer and Chaetomorpha supercharged with BW ChaetoGro. I dose a little LaCl to keep PO4 at 0.1ppm +/- 0.05ppm.

 

[Jimbo327]

More vodka. Probably go with straight vodka. It's more carbon than vinegar.

And I would get a different brand of Nitrate test kit just to make sure it is accurate.

 

[Lil Puff]

Bio balls can become a nitrate factory. Some say no they don't, you have a nitrate problem so I would remove that possibility. They are not needed in a reef tank. Your rock is your bio filter. Water changes will reduce your nitrates. I would do large water change weekly until they get to where you want them

I have tried lots of large water changes but the nitrate spiked back up fast. I switched out the bioballs to sand today so hopefully that helps. Any ideas why my carbon dosing hasn't kicked in yet? Thanks heaps!

 

[Lil Puff]

More vodka. Probably go with straight vodka. It's more carbon than vinegar.

And I would get a different brand of Nitrate test kit just to make sure it is accurate.

I tested with api yesterday and it said 40ppm - 80ppm nitrates. I know its not reliable but it was the only thing I have on hand. I'm hesitant to inrease my carbon dosing more as 70mls daily already seems like an extremely high dose. At what point will they start to drop? Have you carbon dosed before? Where there any signs that the carbon dosing was working other than the drop of nitrates?

 

[royaleFork]

How much are you feeding? It does not make sense that your chaeto is exporting a ton of nutrients but your levels keep rising unless the input is super high?

 

[Pntbll687]

I would take the bio balls out, and rinse them thoroughly to get all the detritus out of them, Then put them back.

I have a theory that some rock can absorb both phosphate and nitrate, then releases it back into the tank as nitrate and phosphate drop.

I would do some rather large water changes over the course of a couple days, with no feedings. This way you can monitor if the nitrate is being produced within the system or not. Measure before the water change, a couple hours after, and then a day after that.

And whatever you do, please don't listen to anyone that says, "you have to trim and throw out the cheato for it to export the nutrients". This is just flat out wrong. If the cheato absorbes nutrients, then the nutrients are no longer in the water column, and we only test for nutrients that are in the water column.

 

[Reefer Brent]

What kind of refugium light is that?

You should start seeing drops now that the bioballs are gone. Is the sand you added in the sump or in the tank?

I would blow the rocks and scrape the glass before your next big water change.

 

[Pntbll687]

Bio balls can become a nitrate factory. Some say no they don't, you have a nitrate problem so I would remove that possibility. They are not needed in a reef tank. Your rock is your bio filter. Water changes will reduce your nitrates. I would do large water change weekly until they get to where you want them

I agree with the "nitrate factory" statement of bio balls. It's just like a canister filter that doesn't get serviced. I think people really underestimate the amount of flow the bio balls and bricks need in order to stop detritus from building up on them and suffocating good bacteria.

 

[edd59]

you shouldnt be dosing with unreliable test kits. get good test kits. api is probably the worst.

 

[reefluvrr]

I believe soft corals do not mind higher nitrates and phosphates.
Your limiting factor for your coral growth may be something else?
Have you considered that running higher carbon dosing may be growing bacteria that could be out competing your bacteria holobiont on your corals for growth?
Here is an article talking about dissolved organic carbon written by Salem Clemens on Reerbuilders.
Your chaeto looks to be growing very well such that it is outcompeting soft corals for certain trace elements that may help them grow. Iodine as well as certain others (sorry do not remember which others).

 

[tamanning]

Bio balls can become a nitrate factory. Some say no they don't, you have a nitrate problem so I would remove that possibility. They are not needed in a reef tank. Your rock is your bio filter. Water changes will reduce your nitrates. I would do large water change weekly until they get to where you want them

Bio balls when not cleaned can get a build up and become a nitrate factory. is your clean up crew up to the task?

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I have tried lots of large water changes but the nitrate spiked back up fast. I switched out the bioballs to sand today so hopefully that helps. Any ideas why my carbon dosing hasn't kicked in yet? Thanks heaps!

Water changes after bio ball removal will tell you if that was the issue.

 

[Lil Puff]

How much are you feeding? It does not make sense that your chaeto is exporting a ton of nutrients but your levels keep rising unless the input is super high?

I was feeding daily which is probably a lot for a predator tank from what I've read. It was all getting eaten though.