Nitrates and phosphates read 0 but I think it might be cyano and GHA eating it up too fast. I have some theories but want some more input

[Placenta89]

So I constantly read 0 with the Hanna checker (ppm) in my phosphates and nitrates but I keep getting this GHA variant and this Wierd brown hair algae type thing that I think might be cyano and what looks like Diatoms on the sand but it is hard to remove ( does not come off in sheets and is not slimy like cyano I had years ago so I'm not sure) I do weekly water changes 15-20% with rodi water and constantly scrub the glass and clean the sand out every time) it's a biocube 32 about 8 months old. So I'm thinking that from researching that the algae is just consuming it before my testing can detect anything. I was gonna put in a media bag of phosguard and possibly treat the tank with chemi clean for a couple days. Is there any other suggestions though before I go ahead with this. I got 2 clowns and a cleaner wrasse only as well as quite a good clean up crew. The brown hair algae which I think might be cyano from reading other people's issues with the same thing. Is growing off of 2 tips heavily and fast from my branch coral. I'll take some pictures when I get home. I also got a ball of chaeto in the second chamber with a nice led light running at inverted times for 10 hours at night. But I think the other algae is taking the nutrients before the chaeto gets any as its not grown like at all in 2 months I've had it. (it's not dead but I fear it will be In the future?) open to any suggestions. I almost feel like I should dose phosphate and nitrate but since there's so much algae growth it has to be present in the tank.

 

[mdb_talon]

The brown hair algae which I think might be cyano

Pictures would definetely help. Hair algae and cyano look very different and should be very easy to identify with a picture under white lights.

 

[Placenta89]

Pictures would definetely help. Hair algae and cyano look very different and should be very easy to identify with a picture under white lights.

Yeah I cleaned it off yesterday but I'm. Sure when I get home it will be back strong, I thought that as well. But I have GHA algae that I know forsure is but reading other people's posts with very similar looking pictures and exact same issue people said it was cyano. I thought it was just a form of hair algae but like a dark brown color. When I get off work I will post my branch coral and sand bed with the stuff. Just did a water change again last night but I'm sure it will be back

 

[littlebeard]

Post a picture, it will help. You may have the dreaded dinos.

Phosphates and nitrates at zero is no good. If you do have cyno, I'd advise against using chemi-clean. Chemi-clean does work, but I feel like in the process it will harm your healthy tank biome. Dosing chemi-clean often kills the cyno and then opens the door for dinos, which imho is way harder to deal with.


Get those nutrients up!

 

[Placenta89]

Hey thanks. Yeah I will try dosing nitrates and a low amount of phosphate which I had done before last month when it read 0 but then I just got an insane amount of hair algae. Had to. Buy 12 turbo snails just to make a dent in it. So In theory I was thinking that the nitrate and phosphate levels are there but as all sorts of other algae is growing ( finally got my corraline algae forming in spots) but GHA, this.brown fuzzy hair stuff and a dark brown with small hairs on the sand grows like crazy so there must be nitrates and phosphates in the tank in order for it to grow right? I don't think it's Dinos as no bubbles are forming on any of the algae. I'll post a pic when I get home (just cleaned the tank yesterday but I'm sure it will be back when I get home)

 

[Duncan62]

Yeah I cleaned it off yesterday but I'm. Sure when I get home it will be back strong, I thought that as well. But I have GHA algae that I know forsure is but reading other people's posts with very similar looking pictures and exact same issue people said it was cyano. I thought it was just a form of hair algae but like a dark brown color. When I get off work I will post my branch coral and sand bed with the stuff. Just did a water change again last night but I'm sure it will be back

Dinos

 

[Placenta89]

Dinos

Really? dang okay ill post you a pic after but I really didn't think it was Dinos as other algae is thriving as it well. My understanding was they are hair like with bubbles on the tips of it and stringy like. Which does not look like what's in my tank. Also I thought it was a depletion of phosphates and nitrates. Which I believe I do have in my tank but the other algae is just consuming it so fast. Thanks for the input

 

[Duncan62]

Really? dang okay ill post you a pic after but I really didn't think it was Dinos as other algae is thriving as it well. My understanding was they are hair like with bubbles on the tips of it and stringy like. Which does not look like what's in my tank. Also I thought it was a depletion of phosphates and nitrates. Which I believe I do have in my tank but the other algae is just consuming it so fast. Thanks for the input

Look like slime. Low flow areas will have bubbles. A pic with whites up will help. What color is the fuzz? White? Now I'm curious. Lol.

 

[Reef.]

Sounds to me your issue could be over cleaning, if you are doing 20% water change every week and cleaning the tank at the same time, yet you are keep getting zero readings…I would try and get readings for both then go from there.

 

[Placenta89]

Look like slime. Low flow areas will have bubbles. A pic with whites up will help. What color is the fuzz? White? Now I'm curious. Lol.

The fuzz is a brown diatom looking on the sand (I had many Diatoms before and this doesn't seem to be it) Diatoms were easy to remove or baste off rocks and sand. I had the back of the tank covered with the brown fuzzy stuff but I scraped it all off last week and it was a tough scrub. got some pretty good flow in all the tank. I got 2 wave makers plus the return pump in a 32 gallon cube. Haven't seen anything that resembles Dinos from all the pictures I have looked at . It's definetly not a slimey substance. I'll crank the whites up when I get home and send a pic.

 

[littlebeard]

There are 1700 different species of marine dinoflagellates so not all act the same way. The only true way to identify them is with a microscope. However, if it is growing extremely fast, doesn't look like cyno and your nutrients are zero... All signs point to dino.

 

[Placenta89]

Sounds to me your issue could be over cleaning, if you are doing 20% water change every week and cleaning the tank at the same time, yet you are keep getting zero readings…I would try and get readings for both then go from there.

What do you mean readings from both? And over cleaning eh. That could be it... I hear so much about maintenance and constant weekly changes are key. But it's definetly a battle with these small tanks to get stable sweet spots. Maybe I'll cut back on my water changes as well, just do 10% weekly and see in a month how that goes. Do you Think I should take the chemi pure and phosguard out as well?

 

[Placenta89]

There are 1700 different species of marine dinoflagellates so not all act the same way. The only true way to identify them is with a microscope. However, if it is growing extremely fast, doesn't look like cyno and your nutrients are zero... All signs point to dino.

Would the other algae still grow though with no nutrients and phosphate? I would assume the Dinos would take over but I'm still getting green algae and hair and Coraline algae growing along with it. Thanks though! Guy made a point I might be cleaning too frequently as well. I dosed last month some phosphate and nitrogen and I got crazy algae blooms. It went from 2ppm phosphate dose to 0.06 in about a day and half. And had nitrate at about 5 after dosing. I tried feeding more as well and I know quite a bit of food was hitting the sand but I clean the sand every week as well.

 

[Reef.]

What do you mean readings from both? And over cleaning eh. That could be it... I hear so much about maintenance and constant weekly changes are key. But it's definetly a battle with these small tanks to get stable sweet spots. Maybe I'll cut back on my water changes as well, just do 10% weekly and see in a month how that goes. Do you Think I should take the chemi pure and phosguard out as well?

Yes! If your reading for both po4 and nitrates are zero you should not be adding media to remove even more.

Just do water changes when your nitrates go above 10 and your po4 goes over 0.1, you can remove the brown stuff etc but you need your lvls of po4 and nitrates up before cleaning, higher lvls will help.

 

[Placenta89]

Yes! If your reading for both po4 and nitrates are zero you should not be adding media to remove even more.

Just do water changes when your nitrates go above 10 and your po4 goes over 0.1, you can remove the brown stuff etc but you need your lvls of po4 and nitrates up before cleaning, higher lvls will help.

Oh dang thank you so much! I was on a strict schedule with water changes and basting rocks and scrubbing the glass. I'll try to just change it when it goes up then. My levels are very stable in everything else and have been for a while. So many people say new tanks make sure you change your water every week! Stay on top of it!. So I just went with it but I'm definitely gonna be doing the method of only changes when those levels are high. This is gonna be nice not changing it so systematically. Thanks

 

[ScottB]

What do you mean readings from both? And over cleaning eh. That could be it... I hear so much about maintenance and constant weekly changes are key. But it's definetly a battle with these small tanks to get stable sweet spots. Maybe I'll cut back on my water changes as well, just do 10% weekly and see in a month how that goes. Do you Think I should take the chemi pure and phosguard out as well?

Some forms of algae are actually good at feeding directly from the ammonia -- the precursor to nitrites/nitrates. Anyway, we can come back to that later. IMO, your husbandry is a bit too aggressive and you have dinos, the ultimate scavengers.

Here is a Doc I've been clacking on for a bit. Go to the section "Do I have Dinos?" and do the coffee filter test.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

 

[Placenta89]

Some forms of algae are actually good at feeding directly from the ammonia -- the precursor to nitrites/nitrates. Anyway, we can come back to that later. IMO, your husbandry is a bit too aggressive and you have dinos, the ultimate scavengers.

Here is a Doc I've been clacking on for a bit. Go to the section "Do I have Dinos?" and do the coffee filter test.

A Dinoflagellate Treatment Guide

docs.google.com

I could kiss you. Thank you! Gonna do that as soon as I get home. Gonna start dosing nitrogen and phosphate almost daily now and test every day for a month to see what I need. I guess I'll expect a big bloom of other algae but that seems to be okay. I don't know why I think even though I follow every procedure some how I can skip some ugly phases Hahaha. I really didn't think it was Dinos but everything seems to be pointing to that. Thanks so much! Gonna follow this advice plus it's in line with what another person said as well.

 

[fdevans]

Following.

Running into very similar issues and am considering dosing PO4 and NO3 but they don't arrive until Friday. I did gather some of the gunk taking over my tank (still in early newbie phases) and will try with the coffee filter. I was told if you just put it in a small container and shake it up if it stays broken apart it's not dinos, if it comes back together it is dinos, but I haven't check that with other sources just yet.

Now to find a coffee filter

 

[fdevans]

Also... I've noticed that after I got Alkalinity up and consistent it helped reduce some of the algae I was getting (all kinds).

 

[Duncan62]

The fuzz is a brown diatom looking on the sand (I had many Diatoms before and this doesn't seem to be it) Diatoms were easy to remove or baste off rocks and sand. I had the back of the tank covered with the brown fuzzy stuff but I scraped it all off last week and it was a tough scrub. got some pretty good flow in all the tank. I got 2 wave makers plus the return pump in a 32 gallon cube. Haven't seen anything that resembles Dinos from all the pictures I have looked at . It's definetly not a slimey substance. I'll crank the whites up when I get home and send a pic.

The 0s point to some form of dino. Is it a little better at night and gets worse as the day progresses? Get a cheap microscope. It'll help. Best fix is nutrient balance. Patience.