Nitrates are BAD...no no no they are GOOD!! Wait, What?!?!

Are nitrates in a reef tank a bad thing or a good thing? (see the thread)

  • Yes good depending on the levels

    Votes: 797 87.6%
  • No they are bad

    Votes: 32 3.5%
  • I'm undecided

    Votes: 81 8.9%

  • Total voters
    910

Simon Cushing

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I'm going shock you, so hold on to your test tubes!

180 gallons total water volume, 125 gallon DT.

I'm running, successfully I should say, N03 at 30ppm to 50ppm. WHAT? Can't be right, right? No, it's correct!

Yes, for nearly a year. I have unsuccessfully tried carbon dosing, HUGE water changes, bio pellets.....etc with no avail. ( Yes, all done absolutely correctly, to be honest, little reductions where had, but none reducing to 5-10)

With that said, I do and have ran a refugium with chaetomorpha for months successfully, pulling a gallon or so out a month. Nice green and healthy.

I do run my DKH high at 10.5 and calcium around 500. Mag around 1400. Kalkwasser in my ATO reservoir top off. Tons of flow and PAR at 300 at the tops off my aquascape.

The other value that will "SHOCK" you is P04. It's at 0.12! WHAT? it's correct!

No pest algaes, DT is free and clear of them.

All my SPS are growing, healthy and colorful. LPS is nuts in growth and color. I have to frag soon!

Water changes are 10 gallons a week with regular Instant Ocean. No dosing anything except alkalinity once in a blue moon and kalkwasser.

Skimmer and occasionally a filter sock.

So, yes you can have a healthy, thriving, colorful reef with insanely high nutrients, but it needs export and needs to be done in a mature reef (12+ months old) over time.
 

Simon Cushing

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I agree entirely with you, if your set up is over 12months old yes you can a healthy reef . Like my 60g cube I have No3 at 25/30, Po4 at 0.03. Mine is 4yr old but...the point I am making these have been stable, No fluctuations! So...I don't worry about it and my corals and fish are fine. I admit I have been fighting against a small amount of GHA but I keep that under control with manual handling.
 

AngelFly

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I killed off my tank by lowering my Nitrates to zero. Now I can't seem to increase them. Three tangs, clown and wrasse in 55gal tank. I like to grow some coral and macro. What is best product I can use to add nitrates to tank ?
 

AngelFly

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Agreed I killed off my tank by lower my nitrates to zero. Took forever to learn hard lesson. But now can't figure out how to increase them. Have three tangs, clown and wrasse in 55gal. Ideas on what is best product I could use to add nitrates to my tank to feed a few pieces of coral and macro ?
 

Simon Cushing

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Having Nitrates and phosphates at zero can lead to cyano, SPS corals can become pale in colour. Depends on what corals you want to keep, I feel you need some Nitrates for corals. You can raise Nitrates by heavy feeding with flake food etc. Frozen too. The other product I've heard that you have in the states is KNo3 potassium Nitrates which raises Nitrates but need to look up online. What works for some reefers does not always work for others. I have tried to lower the level of Nitrates in my 60 cube without success so I leave it as it is with biweekly water changes.
 

AngelFly

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It took about 1 yr for me to lower my Nitrates and PO4 to zero. I used a reactor and added product from Red Sea called NO3:pO4 -X. This seemed to do the trick. This Red Sea product is confusing since it says it promotes coral growth yet lowers NO3 and PO4 and contols cyanobacteria. So now I have zero NO3 and PO4 but large amount of cyanobacteria. I'm guessing the cyano is consuming all my nitrates.
I'll review the KNO3 supplement.
 

Simon Cushing

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Yes I've used the Red Sea No/pox at some point, found it to lower my Nitrates but not enough plus I have GHA from it though not much, I found the instructions confusing also. I have not had cyano ever in my 60g also watch for bacterial bloom from No/pox. Sorry to see from your comment you are have cyano! That will consume some Nitrates. Niloc G aquatics for KNo3 I've looked up www.NilocG .com
 

Back where it all began

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Nitrate (well, nitrogen) is definitely essential in a reef aquarium. How much is up to each system. Same with PO4.

I’m not a parameter tester, unless you count my eyeballs as testing equipment. So, it goes without saying that I’m not a number chaser. If the corals look good, then that’s how much NO3 I have. I couldn’t tell you if a tank has 5ppm NO3 or 55ppm NO3. Nor do I care all that much.

If things start moving sideways a little, I’ll see it in the algal growth, skimmate, and over-all look of the coral. 999 times out of 100, that’s due to excessive nutrients, so when I see certain indicators, I just begin remediation until it looks better.

giphy.gif
Hahaha, best show out there.
 

stevieduk

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it makes you think , does this subject. I have never had cyno in years of marine keeping , had medium nitrate readings and lots of green algae on the back glass , yes , but it was food for the tangs and they keept it under control.
Very recently added a large grouper to the tank , Nitrates shot up a bit so i added a few more bits to my sump , a porous brick and nitrate absorbing crystals , both supposed to help , and now , guess what , I have cyno growing on my front glass. bit like War of the Worlds with the red weed.
I think before the grouper my system was balanced and now ive added one more fish, all be it a big one, ive upset the balance and the cyno has seized its chance. question is do i leave it and let it balance out again or tinker with it some more and maybe make it worst
 

stevieduk

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it makes you think , does this subject. I have never had cyno in years of marine keeping , had medium nitrate readings and lots of green algae on the back glass , yes , but it was food for the tangs and they keept it under control.
Very recently added a large grouper to the tank , Nitrates shot up a bit so i added a few more bits to my sump , a porous brick and nitrate absorbing crystals , both supposed to help , and now , guess what , I have cyno growing on my front glass. bit like War of the Worlds with the red weed.
I think before the grouper my system was balanced and now ive added one more fish, all be it a big one, ive upset the balance and the cyno has seized its chance. question is do i leave it and let it balance out again or tinker with it some more and maybe make it worst
 

JustAnt

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My nitrates are 0. What steps can I take to raise them to say 5-10?
I’m running a carbon reactor with gfo mixed in. I know go is keeping my phosphate low but does it affect nitrates as well? What causes low nitrates?
 

Belgian Anthias

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My nitrates are 0. What steps can I take to raise them to say 5-10?
I’m running a carbon reactor with gfo mixed in. I know go is keeping my phosphate low but does it affect nitrates as well? What causes low nitrates?
The carbon reactor are biobals? Or GAC?
I killed off my tank by lowering my Nitrates to zero. Now I can't seem to increase them. Three tangs, clown and wrasse in 55gal tank. I like to grow some coral and macro. What is best product I can use to add nitrates to tank ?

Nitrate is safely stored usable nitrogen. It is the endproduct of nitrification. By introducing a small bio-filter one may be able to control the nitrogen content and nitrate level in the system.
0 nitrate does not mean there is no nitrate available. It may be the production and consumption is in balance> It may be all ammonium produced is consumed and no nitrate is produced which means no or limited autotrophic carrying capacity is available and must be installed.
 

JustAnt

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The carbon reactor are biobals? Or GAC?


Nitrate is safely stored usable nitrogen. It is the endproduct of nitrification. By introducing a small bio-filter one may be able to control the nitrogen content and nitrate level in the system.
0 nitrate does not mean there is no nitrate available. It may be the production and consumption is in balance> It may be all ammonium produced is consumed and no nitrate is produced which means no or limited autotrophic carrying capacity is available and must be installed.

BRS ROX CARBON & GFO
 

Sailfinguy21

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Id say like fresh water to keep nitrates at 40 or lower. In my reef i noticed nitrates do nothing to my corals or fish. My 135g is at 10ppm now and i keep a denitrate reactor i made on the tank to keep them in check so i dont hsve to do so many water changes so often.. becsuse s 50% water chsnge evrry 2 or 3 weeks gets expensive in salt for a larger tank. I have a heavily stocked tank too. 4 tangs.. a foxface.. 2 clowns. 3 damsels. A dottyback. 2 blue gudgeon gobies.. thats alot of fish.. but my nitrates dont rise much at all.. i have no sump either and no protien skimmer. Yep you heard me

In my 55g hexagon before i moved to the 135 my nitrates were always 20-40ppm and none of the corals were bothered.. in fact they were all open and colored up and growing quickly.

I also dont pay attention to phosphates.. coral sym iotic algae uses phosphates just like normsl algae.. so if you think about it.. why would you want near 0 phosphates and nitrates... if the algae in thr coral uses it.. i know its to keep pest algae under controk... but if you have the right fish.. cleanup crew.. sea urchins and so forth that algae shouldnt be as bothersome.. I know i had cynao tons of it.. chemiclean took care if that.. never came back.

I had major hair algae. Sea urchins.. foxface and yellow tang and my naso tang took care of that issue..

Now i just wish i could grow some purple coraline instead of this brown.black stuff on my rocks lol.. I seem to be sble to grow green coraline.. lol but not purple
 

Daniel@R2R

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Lots of good info in here. It seems the discussion of NO3 & PO4 is becoming a major conversation again.
 

Belgian Anthias

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During the last decade, a great deal of scientific research has taken place concerning nitrogen and phosphate uptake of corals, the symbodinium and the coral holobiont, both in nature and in captivity.
The success of the hobby makes aquaculture of corals a lucrative activity and promotes commercial and subsidized research. A great deal of recent and scientifically based information is therefore available.
For example, it may be assumed that there is no direct link between an increased presence of nitrate and coral growth, which does not mean that there is no influence.
Corals prefer ammonium as a nitrogen source. But also bacteria that can use it much more efficiently and quickly.
If the picture of the uptake of inorganic nitrogen and phosphorus that is demonstrated by many different studies is correct, then it can be assumed that corals in most ocean areas are dominantly dependent on organic material as their N and P source. (T.WangEnCo2016)
What do we measure in our aquarium?
Only in experiments where corals are famished, there is evidence for a significant uptake of nitrate / ammonium.
Mimicking the circumstances as they occur in nature in captivity makes no sense, certainly not in the small private community of a home aquarium. It is not possible.
For those who want to know more about how a coral holobiont works, calcification, the importance of symbionts, lighting, photosynthesis, and the influence of nitrate and phosphorus on all this, you can go to the Makazi Baharini wiki. The original articles were written in Dutch by CMF De Haes, among others. Some articles have been translated into English. Most references to where reference is made can be accessed directly via the reference link and are usually in the English language.
The Makazi Baharini wiki also contains all information regarding BADES, information not available anywhere else.
The use of BADES is an answer to the question copied by many authors: "What to do with the nitrate produced by a bio-filter ?!" This unnecessary question was answered decades ago, long before the question was circulated. Nitrate formation has never been a problem since nitrate is nothing more than a safe storage of available and usable nitrogen supplied by nature that can be removed in a very simple way and can be kept at the same stable low level in an aquarium, even at high production.
 

HB AL

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I'm going shock you, so hold on to your test tubes!

180 gallons total water volume, 125 gallon DT.

I'm running, successfully I should say, N03 at 30ppm to 50ppm. WHAT? Can't be right, right? No, it's correct!

Yes, for nearly a year. I have unsuccessfully tried carbon dosing, HUGE water changes, bio pellets.....etc with no avail. ( Yes, all done absolutely correctly, to be honest, little reductions where had, but none reducing to 5-10)

With that said, I do and have ran a refugium with chaetomorpha for months successfully, pulling a gallon or so out a month. Nice green and healthy.

I do run my DKH high at 10.5 and calcium around 500. Mag around 1400. Kalkwasser in my ATO reservoir top off. Tons of flow and PAR at 300 at the tops off my aquascape.

The other value that will "SHOCK" you is P04. It's at 0.12! WHAT? it's correct!

No pest algaes, DT is free and clear of them.

All my SPS are growing, healthy and colorful. LPS is nuts in growth and color. I have to frag soon!

Water changes are 10 gallons a week with regular Instant Ocean. No dosing anything except alkalinity once in a blue moon and kalkwasser.

Skimmer and occasionally a filter sock.

So, yes you can have a healthy, thriving, colorful reef with insanely high nutrients, but it needs export and needs to be done in a mature reef (12+ months old) over time.
Sounds like my tank, nitrates between 10 and 40, tons of different types of corals thriving. Add to that 14 fish and my 4 favorites a Sargassum, Assasi, Clown and a recent addition a baby Blueline trigger. Some call me crazy but in 30 plus years I’ve seen it all and do things based on passed successes and my way, then with the hardware and additives making it even easier now then even 20 years ago_Only difference is I haven’t done a water change in over 2 years!

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Streetcred

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Corals need both nutrient and nitrates ... in a prescribed ratio 16:1 :: N : P ... in the range 10 - 20 (Redfield Ratio). Or, 10:1 :: NO3 : PO4 ... in the range 7 - 13 (Buddy Ratio).
You can thank me later ;-)
 

Belgian Anthias

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Corals do not bother much about the ratio's present in the water column as long they have an active holobiont. The holobiont is very adaptive to the environment. In nature corals retrieve most nitrogen en phosphorus from organics provided within the holobiont by all kinds of bacteria , archaea , fungi, and symbionts.
for example: if in the environment there is not enough nitrogen and phoshorus the growth rate within the holobiont will slow down and there will be a lot of organic phosphorus and nitrogen coming available; nitrogen will also be provided by nitrogenase within the holobiont. If there is an unlimited supply of nitrogen and phosphorus the availability of other building materials will be the regulator. if there is shortage within the holobiont corals will provide nutrients by excrements .
In open water this works fine as there will be an unlimited supply although at a very low competitive level. In a closed system we can not mimmic this, that is why a detectable availability should always be available; what we measure is what is not used, YET!
My point of view, there is no need for nutrients to be present in a certain ratio or range in de water column of the home aquarium. Keep the nutrients detectable and controlable. An abnormal increasing level of nutrients as nitrate or and phosphorus is in most cases a signal, a messenger for problems and not the cause which must be battled.
 

Mastering the art of locking and unlocking water pathways: What type of valves do you have on your aquarium plumbing?

  • Ball valves.

    Votes: 72 51.8%
  • Gate valves.

    Votes: 70 50.4%
  • Check valves.

    Votes: 35 25.2%
  • None.

    Votes: 31 22.3%
  • Other.

    Votes: 9 6.5%
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