Not a total newbie but...

[SebM]

Just registered here, so first off I wanted to say hi and thanks for such a great place with so much information

I've had fish one way or another for more than half of my life, ranging from old-school tropical in the mid 1980s, a large pond and a small tropical tank while studying in the US. Fast forward to 2012 and we set up a 200l marine tank in the new house.

The system was started with dry sand, a huge amount of proper cured live rock from the local LFS and it was ready for the first pair of clowns in a week. We slowly added more fish and a CUC and all was happy and well until about three years later we got tempted by a longhorn cowfish and after speaking to the LFS "expert" decided to get it. Within a week it wiped out everything an we were devastated. We took it back and ripped the tank apart, converting into a tropical which we kept until we moved to a new house a few years later.

We lived without any tank for a couple of years and then got a 270 litre cylinder tank and went tropical (we also have a very healthy pond). A few weeks ago we decided to convert to marine and I started researching.

Little did I know that live rock is no longer a thing and nowhere to be found in a 80 mile radius. So after a lot of researching (and cleaning out the tank/donating the fish) we ended up with the following:

20lb Caribsea live sand - AragAlive Fiji Pink
5 pieces of Caribsea life rock shapes
7 pieces of TMC ECO reef rock

On Saturday I made a start and ended up with some amazing aquascaping. 2-3 inches of sand (I purposely left it a bit uneven for a natural look) and a tall reef structure in the centre of tank with lots of caves and places for coral frags. Room to swim around the reef for the future inhabitants and the upper third of tank is completely available.

About an hour later the tank was filled (IQuatics Ocean Reef Pro used as my salt of choice). Heater in (set to 77 - I'm a celsius person but prefer Fahrenheit for my tanks) and a powerhead (7,500 lph). Thanks to the cylinder shape the circulation is amazing from top to bottom with just the one powerhead and it even breaks the surface.

Fast forward 12 hours and I added a bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonia (I dosed for 200 litres due to sand and rocks).

I've taken readings for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and PH with the following results:

Sunday afternoon (14 hours after O&O and Ammonia dosing): PH 8 | Ammonia 0.35 | Nitrite 0 | Nitrate 0
This morning: PH 8 | Ammonia 0.1 | Nitrite 0.15 | Nitrate 35

Salinity stable both times at 1.023.

I think I've done everything as I should have and clearly Ammonia is being used by the bacteria.

I think I just expected higher nitrite numbers but I guess I missed most of the initial spike? AragAlive plus whatever bacteria apparently is magically attached to the Life Rock plus O&O has maybe put the tank in a good starting position?

One thing of note, a few hours after filling the tank with water everything was crystal clear and it stayed like that until I went to bed last night. This morning the water is slightly cloudy/milky which I guess is an early bacteria bloom (powerhead securely in position, sand is not being disturbed)?

Sorry for the long post and questions but it's all just very different to cured live rock!

We are not rushing to get the first fish (a pair of clowns most likely) although we were told that Wed this week will be fine unless the levels are not where they should be. I'd rather get it all right! I'll ask for everybody's opinion on what we intend to get in a later post

Thanks everybody!!

 

[SlugSnorter]

Just registered here, so first off I wanted to say hi and thanks for such a great place with so much information

I've had fish one way or another for more than half of my life, ranging from old-school tropical in the mid 1980s, a large pond and a small tropical tank while studying in the US. Fast forward to 2012 and we set up a 200l marine tank in the new house.

The system was started with dry sand, a huge amount of proper cured live rock from the local LFS and it was ready for the first pair of clowns in a week. We slowly added more fish and a CUC and all was happy and well until about three years later we got tempted by a longhorn cowfish and after speaking to the LFS "expert" decided to get it. Within a week it wiped out everything an we were devastated. We took it back and ripped the tank apart, converting into a tropical which we kept until we moved to a new house a few years later.

We lived without any tank for a couple of years and then got a 270 litre cylinder tank and went tropical (we also have a very healthy pond). A few weeks ago we decided to convert to marine and I started researching.

Little did I know that live rock is no longer a thing and nowhere to be found in a 80 mile radius. So after a lot of researching (and cleaning out the tank/donating the fish) we ended up with the following:

20lb Caribsea live sand - AragAlive Fiji Pink
5 pieces of Caribsea life rock shapes
7 pieces of TMC ECO reef rock

On Saturday I made a start and ended up with some amazing aquascaping. 2-3 inches of sand (I purposely left it a bit uneven for a natural look) and a tall reef structure in the centre of tank with lots of caves and places for coral frags. Room to swim around the reef for the future inhabitants and the upper third of tank is completely available.

About an hour later the tank was filled (IQuatics Ocean Reef Pro used as my salt of choice). Heater in (set to 77 - I'm a celsius person but prefer Fahrenheit for my tanks) and a powerhead (7,500 lph). Thanks to the cylinder shape the circulation is amazing from top to bottom with just the one powerhead and it even breaks the surface.

Fast forward 12 hours and I added a bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonia (I dosed for 200 litres due to sand and rocks).

I've taken readings for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and PH with the following results:

Sunday afternoon (14 hours after O&O and Ammonia dosing): PH 8 | Ammonia 0.35 | Nitrite 0 | Nitrate 0
This morning: PH 8 | Ammonia 0.1 | Nitrite 0.15 | Nitrate 35

Salinity stable both times at 1.023.

I think I've done everything as I should have and clearly Ammonia is being used by the bacteria.

I think I just expected higher nitrite numbers but I guess I missed most of the initial spike? AragAlive plus whatever bacteria apparently is magically attached to the Life Rock plus O&O has maybe put the tank in a good starting position?

One thing of note, a few hours after filling the tank with water everything was crystal clear and it stayed like that until I went to bed last night. This morning the water is slightly cloudy/milky which I guess is an early bacteria bloom (powerhead securely in position, sand is not being disturbed)?

Sorry for the long post and questions but it's all just very different to cured live rock!

We are not rushing to get the first fish (a pair of clowns most likely) although we were told that Wed this week will be fine unless the levels are not where they should be. I'd rather get it all right! I'll ask for everybody's opinion on what we intend to get in a later post

Thanks everybody!!

put some more ammonia in the the water or a small amount of food to decompose, if the ammonia or nitrite spikes the tank is not cycled.

 

[Zach B]

Welcome I would aim for a salinity level of 1.025-1.026

 

[SebM]

Thanks for the welcome @Zach B Yes, I will definitely get the salinity up a little more. I guess if I give it another couple of days it will get there with evaporation and I can then top up with salt water at 1.025-1.026 rather than the normal "salt-free" top up?

@SlugSnorter Ok - I've done exactly that pretty much straight after I was notified of your reply. I dosed half the dose of ammonia (equivalent to 100l rather than 200l). I took ammonia readings before I dosed and it had dropped further to almost undetectable.

I gave it an hour after dosing and the results are this (didn't do PH):

Ammonia 0.5 (was 0.1 this morning and then almost undetectable just before dosing)
Nitrite 0.3 (was 0.15 this morning)
Nitrate 45 (was 35 this morning)

So I think things are definitely working?

The water got a bit cloudier about 30-45 minutes after dosing the ammonia. More bacteria floating around due to more "food"?

I'll do another test in the morning to see what we get. I'm hoping zero for Ammonia and Nitrite

Thanks guys

 

[SlugSnorter]

Thanks for the welcome @Zach B Yes, I will definitely get the salinity up a little more. I guess if I give it another couple of days it will get there with evaporation and I can then top up with salt water at 1.025-1.026 rather than the normal "salt-free" top up?

@SlugSnorter Ok - I've done exactly that pretty much straight after I was notified of your reply. I dosed half the dose of ammonia (equivalent to 100l rather than 200l). I took ammonia readings before I dosed and it had dropped further to almost undetectable.

I gave it an hour after dosing and the results are this (didn't do PH):

Ammonia 0.5 (was 0.1 this morning and then almost undetectable just before dosing)
Nitrite 0.3 (was 0.15 this morning)
Nitrate 45 (was 35 this morning)

So I think things are definitely working?

The water got a bit cloudier about 30-45 minutes after dosing the ammonia. More bacteria floating around due to more "food"?

I'll do another test in the morning to see what we get. I'm hoping zero for Ammonia and Nitrite

Thanks guys

wait a little longer, one of the best tests (in my opinion) is to take a shrimp or few from your grocery store boil them for 30-40 seconds (remove any risk of contamination) and leave them in the tank until they really start to completely break down inside a mesh/media bag. Its a full test of your bio filter, if it doesn't spike (or adjusts too and stops the spike) after a few days your bio filter is doing amazing, and your tank is likey ready for your first set of critters in there. This isn't necessary, but can be a good better safe than sorry method. If ammonia and Nitrite remain zero for a few days, you can leave the shrimp in to feed the bacteria until you get your fish, as your bacteria have likely already reached a good population.

 

[SebM]

wait a little longer, one of the best tests (in my opinion) is to take a shrimp or few from your grocery store boil them for 30-40 seconds (remove any risk of contamination) and leave them in the tank until they really start to completely break down inside a mesh/media bag. Its a full test of your bio filter, if it doesn't spike (or adjusts too and stops the spike) after a few days your bio filter is doing amazing, and your tank is likey ready for your first set of critters in there. This isn't necessary, but can be a good better safe than sorry method. If ammonia and Nitrite remain zero for a few days, you can leave the shrimp in to feed the bacteria until you get your fish, as your bacteria have likely already reached a good population.

Oh I’m absolutely waiting I’d just be happy if the cycle would already be almost complete or at least it being obvious that there is some bacteria already which is taking care of ammonia.
Just because I was pretty unconvinced doing this without live rock.

Thanks again for your feedback!

 

[SebM]

Quick update after with this morning’s measurements.

Ammonia 0.25 (was 0.5 yesterday afternoon)
Nitrites 0.5 (was 0.3 yesterday afternoon)
Nitrates 50 (was 40 yesterday afternoon)

Water cloudy first thing but cleared up quite a bit after lights on. I’ve switched them off again after two hours.

I’ll leave everything as it is until tonight and then test again. If ammonia and nitrates have reduced then great, if zero even better. If all looks good I’ll try a piece of shrimp tomorrow to see what happens otherwise I’ll probably do another round of ammonia dosing.

Here’s a picture of our tank

 

[SlugSnorter]

Quick update after with this morning’s measurements.

Ammonia 0.25 (was 0.5 yesterday afternoon)
Nitrites 0.5 (was 0.3 yesterday afternoon)
Nitrates 50 (was 40 yesterday afternoon)

Water cloudy first thing but cleared up quite a bit after lights on. I’ve switched them off again after two hours.

I’ll leave everything as it is until tonight and then test again. If ammonia and nitrates have reduced then great, if zero even better. If all looks good I’ll try a piece of shrimp tomorrow to see what happens otherwise I’ll probably do another round of ammonia dosing.

Here’s a picture of our tank

nice! the cycle is going well

 

[SebM]

Well…. ammonia and nitrates didn’t go down as far as I had hoped so instead of a shrimp I did another full dose of ammonia on Wednesday afternoon.

That took ammonia up to 1.5 (the highest ever) and it stayed there until this morning.
Nitrites went up with each water test, reaching 4 this morning while nitrates increased (very slowly) from 50 to 60.

Slight panic…. Did I overdose ammonia? Had something stalled?

Then I did my afternoon testing about an hour ago and we are at

Ammonia 1.2 (still not much lower than the 1.5 we had for three days but progress)

Nitrites down from 4 to 2 and nitrates up from 60 to 80 all in the space of 7 hours.

Very tempted to check again later tonight as I’m kind of obsessed now haha.

Got another bottle of One & Only on the way so hopefully we‘ll be fully cycled in a few days.

 

[SlugSnorter]

Well…. ammonia and nitrates didn’t go down as far as I had hoped so instead of a shrimp I did another full dose of ammonia on Wednesday afternoon.

That took ammonia up to 1.5 (the highest ever) and it stayed there until this morning.
Nitrites went up with each water test, reaching 4 this morning while nitrates increased (very slowly) from 50 to 60.

Slight panic…. Did I overdose ammonia? Had something stalled?

Then I did my afternoon testing about an hour ago and we are at

Ammonia 1.2 (still not much lower than the 1.5 we had for three days but progress)

Nitrites down from 4 to 2 and nitrates up from 60 to 80 all in the space of 7 hours.

Very tempted to check again later tonight as I’m kind of obsessed now haha.

Got another bottle of One & Only on the way so hopefully we‘ll be fully cycled in a few days.

Ammonia is going down, and nitrites up, it can take time but soon nitrites should drop to zero and become nitrates

 

[SebM]

Following another bottle of One & Only on Saturday afternoon we have arrived at this:

Ammonia 0.5
Nitrites 2 (went up to 4 between Saturday and Sunday)
Nitrates 80 (probably higher but hard to tell with API and we know that the API nitrate test is unreliable while nitrites are around)

PH nicely sticking to around 8 throughout.

Unless there are any massive changes my thinking is a 30-40% water change on Wednesday morning and then adding two clowns. Possibly tomorrow if ammonia is <0.25 and nitrites have visibly dropped.

I’ll continue with daily tests after adding the clowns and have Prime ready should ammonia or nitrites spike more than expected. And of course there’s always the option of water changes if required.

 

[Staghorn]

I would do the shrimp/fish food thing and wait until your getting no ammonia or nitrite reading before adding those fish.

 

[SebM]

I would do the shrimp/fish food thing and wait until your getting no ammonia or nitrite reading before adding those fish.

After Dr Tims cycle (plus live sand and sea life rock) and everything working as it should?

I know I said before I’d probably do a shrimp but I don’t see the need now? The shrimp would manage to produce not even a fifth of the ammonia I have dosed. So all that would happen is a small ammonia spike after a good few days followed by a small nitrite spike.

I think the cycle is nearly complete as ammonia > nitrite > nitrate is happening (and it’s done it three times).

If anything changes then time to look at options again but for now I think Dr Tim has worked like clockwork and exactly as described.

 

[Wasabiroot]

Just registered here, so first off I wanted to say hi and thanks for such a great place with so much information

I've had fish one way or another for more than half of my life, ranging from old-school tropical in the mid 1980s, a large pond and a small tropical tank while studying in the US. Fast forward to 2012 and we set up a 200l marine tank in the new house.

The system was started with dry sand, a huge amount of proper cured live rock from the local LFS and it was ready for the first pair of clowns in a week. We slowly added more fish and a CUC and all was happy and well until about three years later we got tempted by a longhorn cowfish and after speaking to the LFS "expert" decided to get it. Within a week it wiped out everything an we were devastated. We took it back and ripped the tank apart, converting into a tropical which we kept until we moved to a new house a few years later.

We lived without any tank for a couple of years and then got a 270 litre cylinder tank and went tropical (we also have a very healthy pond). A few weeks ago we decided to convert to marine and I started researching.

Little did I know that live rock is no longer a thing and nowhere to be found in a 80 mile radius. So after a lot of researching (and cleaning out the tank/donating the fish) we ended up with the following:

20lb Caribsea live sand - AragAlive Fiji Pink
5 pieces of Caribsea life rock shapes
7 pieces of TMC ECO reef rock

On Saturday I made a start and ended up with some amazing aquascaping. 2-3 inches of sand (I purposely left it a bit uneven for a natural look) and a tall reef structure in the centre of tank with lots of caves and places for coral frags. Room to swim around the reef for the future inhabitants and the upper third of tank is completely available.

About an hour later the tank was filled (IQuatics Ocean Reef Pro used as my salt of choice). Heater in (set to 77 - I'm a celsius person but prefer Fahrenheit for my tanks) and a powerhead (7,500 lph). Thanks to the cylinder shape the circulation is amazing from top to bottom with just the one powerhead and it even breaks the surface.

Fast forward 12 hours and I added a bottle of Dr Tim's One and Only and Ammonia (I dosed for 200 litres due to sand and rocks).

I've taken readings for Ammonia, Nitrites, Nitrates and PH with the following results:

Sunday afternoon (14 hours after O&O and Ammonia dosing): PH 8 | Ammonia 0.35 | Nitrite 0 | Nitrate 0
This morning: PH 8 | Ammonia 0.1 | Nitrite 0.15 | Nitrate 35

Salinity stable both times at 1.023.

I think I've done everything as I should have and clearly Ammonia is being used by the bacteria.

I think I just expected higher nitrite numbers but I guess I missed most of the initial spike? AragAlive plus whatever bacteria apparently is magically attached to the Life Rock plus O&O has maybe put the tank in a good starting position?

One thing of note, a few hours after filling the tank with water everything was crystal clear and it stayed like that until I went to bed last night. This morning the water is slightly cloudy/milky which I guess is an early bacteria bloom (powerhead securely in position, sand is not being disturbed)?

Sorry for the long post and questions but it's all just very different to cured live rock!

We are not rushing to get the first fish (a pair of clowns most likely) although we were told that Wed this week will be fine unless the levels are not where they should be. I'd rather get it all right! I'll ask for everybody's opinion on what we intend to get in a later post

Thanks everybody!!

Welcome back to the salty side! I'm sure it'll go smoother this time

 

[SlugSnorter]

After Dr Tims cycle (plus live sand and sea life rock) and everything working as it should?

I know I said before I’d probably do a shrimp but I don’t see the need now? The shrimp would manage to produce not even a fifth of the ammonia I have dosed. So all that would happen is a small ammonia spike after a good few days followed by a small nitrite spike.

I think the cycle is nearly complete as ammonia > nitrite > nitrate is happening (and it’s done it three times).

If anything changes then time to look at options again but for now I think Dr Tim has worked like clockwork and exactly as described.

Nitrate can be produced, but the goal is to have bacteria that can eat the ammonia fast enough for there to be no spikes, the shrimp test is to check for ammonia spike, (which if it doesn't, spike, means the tank is cycled)

 

[SebM]

Nitrate can be produced, but the goal is to have bacteria that can eat the ammonia fast enough for there to be no spikes, the shrimp test is to check for ammonia spike, (which if it doesn't, spike, means the tank is cycled)

Oh I see what you mean now.

Dosing ammonia causes a (expected) spike and it take 36-48 hours to get the levels down etc.

Adding a shrimp should not really affect readings if the tank is fully cycled.

 

[SebM]

Welcome back to the salty side! I'm sure it'll go smoother this time

Thanks

Yes, no more fish just because the LFS staff said it’s fine to add. In fact only a few fish which I know are safe… and some nice corals

 

[SlugSnorter]

Thanks

Yes, no more fish just because the LFS staff said it’s fine to add. In fact only a few fish which I know are safe… and some nice corals

I think your LFS might be trying to load you with extra stuff

 

[SebM]

I think your LFS might be trying to load you with extra stuff

We don’t go to that LFS anymore following the cow fish disaster a few years ago.

Our new one is great.

If you mean Dr Tim’s and Caribsea stuff, none of it came from the LFS. I researched it all (including here) when I realised there’s no live rock anywhere.

The only things we got from the LFS so far are a few pieces of TMC Eco rock as we needed some more on top of the Caribsea stuff and a pot of food Fish will be coming from there though although I am still looking at some online retailers. The reviews for all of them are so mixed though

 

[SlugSnorter]

We don’t go to that LFS anymore following the cow fish disaster a few years ago.

Our new one is great.

If you mean Dr Tim’s and Caribsea stuff, none of it came from the LFS. I researched it all (including here) when I realised there’s no live rock anywhere.

The only things we got from the LFS so far are a few pieces of TMC Eco rock as we needed some more on top of the Caribsea stuff and a pot of food Fish will be coming from there though although I am still looking at some online retailers. The reviews for all of them are so mixed though

okay, good