not alot of replies to many members' requests for icp test decoding, did we waste our money on icp?

https://www.triton.de/en/

david campbell

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i state this no to poke at anyone. Im searching this group to aid me in understanding my results and just seems to me, based on the lack of responses to many others members threads about icp results decoding, that this deep dive into these many elements, has alot of us stumped, or (no response = not sure), which is completely ok. I know, i know jack crap about molybdenum. HAHAHAHAHA.

should we stop preforming these kinda tests?, they do us no good if the research pool is very very very very very low (imo) heck, i can not even find info about some of these elements on the web/ outside this group.
 

Copingwithpods

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In my opinion most of the questions I see can be self answered with a quick Google search, found copper? Run poly pads, low alk but you're testing normal = buy new reagents ect. For me it's more of gage to see if my water change schedule is keeping up with my trace element demand, nothing more. I don't need to understand what all these elements do I just need to know if they are low or high so I can do more water changes.
 

AZMSGT

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Remember the days when you would ask Mom or Dad a question and they would say “go look it up!” By people not answering the posts, it’s a case of them telling you to go look it up. But not having the Mods rain down telling
them they were wrong or rude.

So many answers are right in front of the users of this forum if they would just use search, look at sticky posts, look at the articles and so on.

Triton ICP has everything listed as to what to do and what the results mean. No need to decipher anything.
ATI ICP which I used only used once was a little more work to get an answer but not difficult to figure out.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I try to answer all of the icp questions, but I consider them low priority as most have already been answered for the same exact issue many times. Tin is high, what do I do? Same for aluminum. I’ve answered each of those at least 50 times.
 

K7BMG

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Remember the ICP testing is to basically show your water columns comparison to natural seawater.

I get where your coming from though.
What do I do with these results.
I myself have no desire to become a chemist and educate myself on the long term effects of high or low element's that are in my aquarium.
I wonder if they are good or bad or even matter in the end at all.
This is NOT why I am in this hobby.

The decades before ICP there were many healthy and happy reef tanks without this knowledge. It will be several decades into the future to determine what these results will yield. The reefing chemists in this hobby will research, test, research again, and report their findings along the way. To a potential end result of having perfect saltwater that may be better than natural seawater.

I use my results to see if anything is way out of range.
I will only take action If something is in the red zone. Only then will I do what I can to reduce or increase that element to go green. If its in the yellow zone well yea, this raises an eyebrow, but it stops there.
So far Tin was my biggest issue and yet without me doing anything it has dropped from the red zone into the green zone.

So is it a waste of money? Depends on you and how one looks at it.
I don't think it is.
 

tehmadreefer

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Icp tests provides you with the results, that’s it.
it’s up to YOU to research and determine what if anything should be corrected. Unless you are willing to pay someone to tell you, better start studying up!
 

LARedstickreefer

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Aside from seeing heavy metals that are way outside the norm, nothing else is really that helpful. I only use an ICP test to check my test kits against.
 

rkpetersen

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It's very true though that the hobby and possibly even science in general has little factual information as to what high or low level of many elements is hazardous to each particular coral species. So when you find some odd element is markedly elevated, for example, it's very hard to know what that means or if you should be concerned about it.

And for all we know, aggressively trying to 'normalize' some random number that triton reports as out of range could in some circumstances do more harm than good. Say you use a metal remover, that also winds up removing valuable metals to dangerously low levels. Or you add some element because ICPOES says it's too low, but you accidentally overdose and that hurts your corals.

I personally think there's value in periodic ICPOES testing, but not all of the numbers are equally useful.
 

AZMSGT

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I try to answer all of the icp questions, but I consider them low priority as most have already been answered for the same exact issue many times. Tin is high, what do I do? Same for aluminum. I’ve answered each of those at least 50 times.
Are those answers in the sticky posts?
 

LARedstickreefer

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It's very true though that the hobby and possibly even science in general has little factual information as to what high or low level of many elements is hazardous to each particular coral species. So when you find some odd element is markedly elevated, for example, it's very hard to know what that means or if you should be concerned about it.

And for all we know, aggressively trying to 'normalize' some random number that triton reports as out of range could in some circumstances do more harm than good. Say you use a metal remover, that also winds up removing valuable metals to dangerously low levels. Or you add some element because ICPOES says it's too low, but you accidentally overdose and that hurts your corals.

I personally think there's value in periodic ICPOES testing, but not all of the numbers are equally useful.
My theory is that something like “sky high” boron doesn’t mean anything at all to a coral...Last ICP test has iodine way off the charts. Nothing in my tank seemed to care...Until I see science showing these other elements to interfere with coral growth, I don’t care.

Edit: Now sky high tin or nickel might get me off my duff...
 

Copingwithpods

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Maybe we need an ICP test sticky going down the line of elements noting what to do in each case, if x is high do this or if x is low add this or even if x is low ehh we don't know yet if it actually does anything just keep it in line and so on. Would be a great reference for everyone to use.
 

Peach02

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Maybe we need an ICP test sticky going down the line of elements noting what to do in each case, if x is high do this or if x is low add this or even if x is low ehh we don't know yet if it actually does anything just keep it in line and so on. Would be a great reference for everyone to use.
seems like a useful tool but it would take a long time to develop and prove.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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A lot of the recommendations I make are opinions. Icp does not lend itself to definitive statements with respect to trace elements because the chemical form is unknown, so the toxicity and bioavailability is also unknown. Couple that with the unknown levels needed by organisms and we are left with a discussion that dies not lend itself to a dimple “do this” table of entries.
 

Dan_P

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i state this no to poke at anyone. Im searching this group to aid me in understanding my results and just seems to me, based on the lack of responses to many others members threads about icp results decoding, that this deep dive into these many elements, has alot of us stumped, or (no response = not sure), which is completely ok. I know, i know jack crap about molybdenum. HAHAHAHAHA.

should we stop preforming these kinda tests?, they do us no good if the research pool is very very very very very low (imo) heck, i can not even find info about some of these elements on the web/ outside this group.
A few random thoughts.

Coral have been successfully raised without ICP testing.

An ICP test provides information about the concentration of many ions. When you obtain that information, presumably your response is to adjust the ion concentration to within its normal range.

Whether it is critical to be within that concentration range depends on the animals you keep.

Companies like Triton make money when you buy additives to keep the ions in your aquarium water within the range they suggest which is natural seawater. Triton wants you to feel anxious and buy additives if the ions are not within the suggested range.

There is little information that what ICP vendors measure accurately depicts what is in your water. They are not an analytical services company that provides proof of their competence.

Some ions at very high or very low concentrations might be detrimental to coral health. Rather than obtain an ICP test to “see how things are”, obtain an ICP when there is a problem.

Overall, ICP testing is unlikely to help you to keep coral. If you trust an ICP vendor and have a specific question that can be answered with ICP data, obtain the data.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I have published an article that discusses how I interpreted my Triton testing results here:

 

Isabel’s Hobby

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Remember the ICP testing is to basically show your water columns comparison to natural seawater.

I get where your coming from though.
What do I do with these results.
I myself have no desire to become a chemist and educate myself on the long term effects of high or low element's that are in my aquarium.
I wonder if they are good or bad or even matter in the end at all.
This is NOT why I am in this hobby.

The decades before ICP there were many healthy and happy reef tanks without this knowledge. It will be several decades into the future to determine what these results will yield. The reefing chemists in this hobby will research, test, research again, and report their findings along the way. To a potential end result of having perfect saltwater that may be better than natural seawater.

I use my results to see if anything is way out of range.
I will only take action If something is in the red zone. Only then will I do what I can to reduce or increase that element to go green. If its in the yellow zone well yea, this raises an eyebrow, but it stops there.
So far Tin was my biggest issue and yet without me doing anything it has dropped from the red zone into the green zone.

So is it a waste of money? Depends on you and how one looks at it.
I don't think it is.
i m still puzzled as well
 
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https://www.triton.de/en/

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