Now you see it... now you dont? (Flukes????)

Lemons

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howdy folks, friendly neighborhood panic specialist...

Anyways i was looking at my anthias a week or so ago and i noticed two of them have semi cloudy eyes only in the blue spectrum (see pictures below!) they've been acting normal, eating normal, so i'm wondering what gives????

anyways i started getting into my own head and for some reason, I keep screaming flukes (there is occasionally white non-stringy poop, not sure if it's their 99% Mysis diet or ????)

I probably jumped the gun dosing prazi in my main display but I can't bear the thought of losing my little guys :(

but it is now day five of the first prazi treatment and I have noticed zero improvements at all????????? but i'm just about to do my second dose and hope maybe just maybe a miracle will happen

I know the gold standard for checking for flukes is a FW dip but these little guys won't even start to think about going into a net/ trap so :/


It was only the case for two of the four... now its possibly all four?? all the other tank inhabitants appear to be fantastic shape!


So is it a prazi resistant strain of Neobenedenia fluke??? am I over reacting???? help weigh in!!!

IMG_4894.JPG IMG_4895.JPG IMG_4896.JPG IMG_4897.JPG IMG_4898.JPG
 

vetteguy53081

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Do know that dosing prazi will decrease both oxygen and appetite respectively. Increase oxygen. There is a possibility that you may have high ammonia which will cause ammonia burn/cloudy eyes. Im hoping this is not a new/newer tank in which anthias are not a good first choice.
Eye injury is generally another cause of cloudy eyes but with two fish having this- it reverts back to water quality.
What is your current Ammonia level as well as water temp and salinity/salt level ?
What test kit(s) are you using?
Treatment of choice for the eyes in Quarantine is ethromyacin : Maracyn 1. Ruby rally pro which is reef safe is an alternative but takes longer.
 
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Lemons

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right! I forgot my params!

Currently for tests i use Neptune Trident for my ALK,CA,Mg PH, Sal, temp

and for nutrients i use salifert for my NO3

Hannah for my PO4

Current params:

Sal: 33.1PPT or 1.025 S.G
PH: 8.21 day high - 7.90 night low
Temp: 77.1-77.9 F
ALK: 9.62
CA: 500
MG: 1229
NO3: 5-10ppm (hard to tell with such fine colours)
PO4: 0.07
Ammonia: 0

I usually have my NO3 down around 2.5 but since i've dosed prazi i removed the collection cup out of my skimmer and let it foam back into the sump. In addition to that i have put a massive air stone in the sump to try and minimize microbubbles in the display but not really working.

haven't dosed the second portion of prazi yet as i was waiting for a response

The tank turned 1 year old a few months ago. so roughly 1.2 years of age??? I've had the anthias since the 11-month mark.

I'd love to take them out and treat them in the QT but the issue is I live in Canada and it's almost but impossible to get any fish meds (unless you order it online and it comes in a box marked as dog food)

I do have a 16 oz bottle of rally ruby pro but it's definitely not enough to treat my 130ish Gallons of system volume.



Thanks!!!!!
 

Jay Hemdal

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right! I forgot my params!

Currently for tests i use Neptune Trident for my ALK,CA,Mg PH, Sal, temp

and for nutrients i use salifert for my NO3

Hannah for my PO4

Current params:

Sal: 33.1PPT or 1.025 S.G
PH: 8.21 day high - 7.90 night low
Temp: 77.1-77.9 F
ALK: 9.62
CA: 500
MG: 1229
NO3: 5-10ppm (hard to tell with such fine colours)
PO4: 0.07
Ammonia: 0

I usually have my NO3 down around 2.5 but since i've dosed prazi i removed the collection cup out of my skimmer and let it foam back into the sump. In addition to that i have put a massive air stone in the sump to try and minimize microbubbles in the display but not really working.

haven't dosed the second portion of prazi yet as i was waiting for a response

The tank turned 1 year old a few months ago. so roughly 1.2 years of age??? I've had the anthias since the 11-month mark.

I'd love to take them out and treat them in the QT but the issue is I live in Canada and it's almost but impossible to get any fish meds (unless you order it online and it comes in a box marked as dog food)

I do have a 16 oz bottle of rally ruby pro but it's definitely not enough to treat my 130ish Gallons of system volume.



Thanks!!!!!

What form of praziquantel are you using? I agree that the fish under blue light have some corneal issues, but the ones under normal light look better. I don't see any other symptoms of Neobenedenia (tattered looking).
At this point, I would just do the second prazi treatment. If it is Neo, a third is almost always required in order to catch late hatching eggs. I wouldn't do a FW dip yet - catching the fish would be stressful, and it really is only a diagnostic tool, and won't show flukes other than Neo unless you have a microscope.

Prazi resistant flukes is actually a misnomer - what happens is that in tanks where prazi has been dosed repeatedly, bacteria grows that consumes prazi as a food source. With each subsequent treatment, the bacteria eats the prazi faster than it can work.

Jay
 
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howdy folks, friendly neighborhood panic specialist...

Anyways i was looking at my anthias a week or so ago and i noticed two of them have semi cloudy eyes only in the blue spectrum (see pictures below!) they've been acting normal, eating normal, so i'm wondering what gives????

anyways i started getting into my own head and for some reason, I keep screaming flukes (there is occasionally white non-stringy poop, not sure if it's their 99% Mysis diet or ????)

I probably jumped the gun dosing prazi in my main display but I can't bear the thought of losing my little guys :(

but it is now day five of the first prazi treatment and I have noticed zero improvements at all????????? but i'm just about to do my second dose and hope maybe just maybe a miracle will happen

I know the gold standard for checking for flukes is a FW dip but these little guys won't even start to think about going into a net/ trap so :/


It was only the case for two of the four... now its possibly all four?? all the other tank inhabitants appear to be fantastic shape!


So is it a prazi resistant strain of Neobenedenia fluke??? am I over reacting???? help weigh in!!!

IMG_4894.JPG IMG_4895.JPG IMG_4896.JPG IMG_4897.JPG IMG_4898.JPG
Get friendly with your local vet they can still prescribe the banned meds you just cant buy them over the counter. The vet I go to for my cats will prescribe me meds for my fish based off a pic if I really need them. (Im in Nova Scotia)
 
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Lemons

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What form of praziquantel are you using? I agree that the fish under blue light have some corneal issues, but the ones under normal light look better. I don't see any other symptoms of Neobenedenia (tattered looking).
At this point, I would just do the second prazi treatment. If it is Neo, a third is almost always required in order to catch late hatching eggs. I wouldn't do a FW dip yet - catching the fish would be stressful, and it really is only a diagnostic tool, and won't show flukes other than Neo unless you have a microscope.

Prazi resistant flukes is actually a misnomer - what happens is that in tanks where prazi has been dosed repeatedly, bacteria grows that consumes prazi as a food source. With each subsequent treatment, the bacteria eats the prazi faster than it can work.

Jay

I managed to get hands-on some Hikari PraziPro!

Oh really? well hopefully with only needing to dose this two more times I won't encounter the prazi eating bacteria.... hopefully.

ill add the second dose now! nothing to lose.

I also have been feeding metro laced food jelly just enough so only the fish consume it... just in case it is some sort of bacterial eye infection.

Day 5 of this treatment as well.

So far for anyone wondering the health of the corals and inverts! everyone doesn't even notice! except my pulsing xenia get upset for a little bit within the first hour of dosing prazipro
 
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Get friendly with your local vet they can still prescribe the banned meds you just cant buy them over the counter. The vet I go to for my cats will prescribe me meds for my fish based off a pic if I really need them. (Im in Nova Scotia)

That's what I've thought of doing! but I only have aquatic friends :) so not alot of opportunities to gain good rapport with them.

and bringing in a fish in a bag is the last thing i ever want to do. but maybe they'll take pity if i show up with some pictures and ask for help.
 

Jay Hemdal

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I managed to get hands-on some Hikari PraziPro!

Oh really? well hopefully with only needing to dose this two more times I won't encounter the prazi eating bacteria.... hopefully.

ill add the second dose now! nothing to lose.

I also have been feeding metro laced food jelly just enough so only the fish consume it... just in case it is some sort of bacterial eye infection.

Day 5 of this treatment as well.

So far for anyone wondering the health of the corals and inverts! everyone doesn't even notice! except my pulsing xenia get upset for a little bit within the first hour of dosing prazipro
Always be sure to increase your aeration when using Prazipro, the solvent they use can cause a bacterial bloom which in turn pulls oxygen out of the water.
Jay
 
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Always be sure to increase your aeration when using Prazipro, the solvent they use can cause a bacterial bloom which in turn pulls oxygen out of the water.
Jay
yup! got a big airstone in the sump and I added an old powerhead pointed up to help with surface agitation!

Thanks for the quick response!!! ill do the rounds of prazi and if nothing gets better ill see if can locate more Ruby Reef Rally Pro and I might try that... but I'm hesitant to do so because I've read a lot more horror stories about using it in the DT then PraziPro.

Ill update this thread if anyone is watchin!!!!
 
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***UPDATE***


well, it's been three days since the second treatment of Prazi pro... their condition has not worsened or improved... there has been no spread of this mystery blue light eye clouding.

I have also found out my Rally Pro is more than likely expired as it is well over a year old.
So I'm gonna look into possibly buying some new RallyPro ( $95USD which is roughly 118CAD which is alot to pay for a normally 26$ bottle of stuff)

Or would you folks recommend trying focus bound kanaplex? (i'm approaching day 9 of the metro laced food and still nothing)

So I'm wondering what to do here... I don't want to bombard my tank with antibiotics and antiparasitics forever but any attempt to trap or remove the anthias just causes them to hide and I don't wanna destroy my tank to get them.

So at this point, I'm wondering if maybe it's a remnant of some sort of ocular trauma in the past????? because their condition isn't worsening nor are they showing signs of malaise.

but still, I'd love your guy's input!

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Thanks for all the advice!!!!
 
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Lemons

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***UPDATE***


well, it's been three days since the second treatment of Prazi pro... their condition has not worsened or improved... there has been no spread of this mystery blue light eye clouding.

I have also found out my Rally Pro is more than likely expired as it is well over a year old.
So I'm gonna look into possibly buying some new RallyPro ( $95USD which is roughly 118CAD which is alot to pay for a normally 26$ bottle of stuff)

Or would you folks recommend trying focus bound kanaplex? (i'm approaching day 9 of the metro laced food and still nothing)

So I'm wondering what to do here... I don't want to bombard my tank with antibiotics and antiparasitics forever but any attempt to trap or remove the anthias just causes them to hide and I don't wanna destroy my tank to get them.

So at this point, I'm wondering if maybe it's a remnant of some sort of ocular trauma in the past????? because their condition isn't worsening nor are they showing signs of malaise.

but still, I'd love your guy's input!

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081

Thanks for all the advice!!!!
Well i guess scratch on them not getting worse... one of them now has white nodules popping up on her... i probably assume ich... which i know for certain is in my system but ever since i had to turn off my UV to run prazi i guess its making a resurge??? sorry for the bad photos but its only popping up on her forehead area
 

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Jay Hemdal

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That looks too diffuse to be ich.

Certainly fish develop cataracts and other eye damage that isn’t caused by bacteria or parasites.

Don’t bother dosing metro and focus, it will never work. Metronidazole is very bitter. Is the fish are eating it, your dose is too low. If you get the dose right (5000 ppm) they’ll stop eating it .
Jay
 
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That looks too diffuse to be ich.

Certainly fish develop cataracts and other eye damage that isn’t caused by bacteria or parasites.

Don’t bother dosing metro and focus, it will never work. Metronidazole is very bitter. Is the fish are eating it, your dose is too low. If you get the dose right (5000 ppm) they’ll stop eating it .
Jay
oh man, if its not ich... oh god does that mean velvet????????????

ill try to remove them from the DT but i fear if it is velvet and one is showing signs it might be too late :(
 

vetteguy53081

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oh man, if its not ich... oh god does that mean velvet????????????

ill try to remove them from the DT but i fear if it is velvet and one is showing signs it might be too late :(
My guess- Lymphocystis which is associated with poor water conditions or simply increase water changes and monitor levels. If youre using API test kits, youre likely getting false readings
 
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Lemons

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My guess- Lymphocystis which is associated with poor water conditions or simply increase water changes and monitor levels. If youre using API test kits, youre likely getting false readings
I hope it's lymphocystis, my water quality isn't the best since I've had to stop my 6day 10% water change due to the prazi treatment. and no skimming taking place.

She did occasionally scratch herself on the walls...

current params are:

S.G. 1.025
Temp 77.8(f)
NO3 - 10-15ppm (Salifert test) hard to tell with the fine colors
PO4 -0.07ppm (Hannah checker)


All the big three are checked every six hours by my Neptune trident
ALK: 9.65
Ca: 495
Mg: 1235


I once again did another Salifert ammonia test and once again read zero :/
 

Jay Hemdal

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The man symptom of velvet is rapid breathing and not feeding. If you aren’t seeing that, it probably isn’t it.
Here is the issue - I can only tell you so much from a photo, there is a lot guesswork that goes into this….
Jay
oh man, if its not ich... oh god does that mean velvet????????????

ill try to remove them from the DT but i fear if it is velvet and one is showing signs it might be too late :(
 
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Lemons

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The man symptom of velvet is rapid breathing and not feeding. If you aren’t seeing that, it probably isn’t it.
Here is the issue - I can only tell you so much from a photo, there is a lot guesswork that goes into this….
Jay
Well, she's eating and no heavy breathing... you are so right on the guesswork! I went into this knowing reefing isn't easy! lol

And I can't put into words how thankful I am folks like you lend your experience and knowledge!!! Thanks for the quick responses! but I'm fairly sure other folks need your opinions now I can't hog all the help!

I'll get my params better and monitor and I guess let whatever happens, happens.

thanks to all who weighed in and watched this thread!
 

vetteguy53081

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I hope it's lymphocystis, my water quality isn't the best since I've had to stop my 6day 10% water change due to the prazi treatment. and no skimming taking place.

She did occasionally scratch herself on the walls...

current params are:

S.G. 1.025
Temp 77.8(f)
NO3 - 10-15ppm (Salifert test) hard to tell with the fine colors
PO4 -0.07ppm (Hannah checker)


All the big three are checked every six hours by my Neptune trident
ALK: 9.65
Ca: 495
Mg: 1235


I once again did another Salifert ammonia test and once again read zero :/
Ammonia and nitrate ??
Water change and add a pouch of chemipure blue to keep No3 and PO4 in check. CA a little elevated (target 440)
 
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