Nt Marine Anti-Parasite

[Mark Goode]

You may or may not have seen a thread where I was bitterly complaining about the lack of availability of suitable medications in the UK for quarantining fish. I saw this at the weekend: https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/marine/anti-parasite/

"Anti-Parasite uses the tried-and-tested method of chelated copper therapy, boosted by the power of formalin to rapidly control these dangerous parasites. Anti-Parasite is a great choice for fish-only systems or hospital aquariums."

Has anyone any experience with it (or thoughts about it)?

Thanks.

 

[vetteguy53081]

You may or may not have seen a thread where I was bitterly complaining about the lack of availability of suitable medications in the UK for quarantining fish. I saw this at the weekend: https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/marine/anti-parasite/

"Anti-Parasite uses the tried-and-tested method of chelated copper therapy, boosted by the power of formalin to rapidly control these dangerous parasites. Anti-Parasite is a great choice for fish-only systems or hospital aquariums."

Has anyone any experience with it (or thoughts about it)?

Thanks.

This may work based on the ingredients but I have low familiarity with the product as many will also

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You may or may not have seen a thread where I was bitterly complaining about the lack of availability of suitable medications in the UK for quarantining fish. I saw this at the weekend: https://www.ntlabs.co.uk/browse-products/indoor/marine/anti-parasite/

"Anti-Parasite uses the tried-and-tested method of chelated copper therapy, boosted by the power of formalin to rapidly control these dangerous parasites. Anti-Parasite is a great choice for fish-only systems or hospital aquariums."

Has anyone any experience with it (or thoughts about it)?

Thanks.

That product isn't sold in the US, but some data on it is available on the Internet. There seems to be two formulations; One has a higher formalin concentration and is about four times as strong as the other product.

Here is the issue I have with it: formalin is dosed based on time versus concentration. Copper is dosed based just on concentration. So: a common dose for formalin is 25 ppm for 24 hours, or 75 ppm for 3 hours and for ionic copper, the dose is 0.20 ppm as a constant bath. You simply cannot dose those two drugs at the same time without a copper test kit, and then, the formalin dissipates and needs to be re-added, but not at the same rate as copper does, so mixed together, I don't not see how it could work.

Using the low dose product, I tried to back-calculate the concentration of the drugs. the dose listed is 10 ml/ 50 l. For copper, that works out to be 0.8 mg/l and for formalin that is 0.50 mg/l The copper dose is too high for ionic copper (maybe they use amine-based copper?) and the formalin is far below the therapeutic level used in any of my formularies.

One question I have is this: if they can sell copper and formalin, (while no other company in the UK can?) why can't they just sell the chemicals individually and make more effective treatments from them?

Jay

 

[Mark Goode]

One question I have is this: if they can sell copper and formalin, (while no other company in the UK can?) why can't they just sell the chemicals individually and make more effective treatments from them?

Jay

Beats me Jay. I've found a shop across the pond willing to ship Copper Power to the UK, I'm expecting some in two or three weeks.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Beats me Jay. I've found a shop across the pond willing to ship Copper Power to the UK, I'm expecting some in two or three weeks.

One of my FB friends showed up on their web site as a "reviewer", I think he is associated with the company, I'll ask him.

Jay

 

[MnFish1]

Beats me Jay. I've found a shop across the pond willing to ship Copper Power to the UK, I'm expecting some in two or three weeks.

There was another recent thread about these products - was that yours? If not searching R2R may give some more information. One issue - I believe these medications are meant for 'treatment' of an active disease, as compared to a timed quarantine i.e. prophylaxis.

That said - and keeping in mind what @Jay Hemdal said, if all I had were those products I would use them carefully and strictly according to their directions (as compared to other protocols which would have different dosages and lengths of treatment.

PS - totally rhetorical question - I can see why different countries do not allow antibiotics to be sold without a prescription. I do not see why copper/formaldehyde solutions should not be available.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I checked with my FB friend in the UK. He doesn't know about this company's marine formulations (he is mostly a FW guy) He forwarded me this web site though:

Exemption from authorisation for medicines for small pet animals

How to comply with the exemption from the Veterinary Medicines Regulations that allow certain animal medicines to be sold without an authorisation.

www.gov.uk

In glancing through it, it looks like most aquarium medications would be allowed to be sold in the UK, but that you need to apply for a use permit. It may well be that the permit process requires that you disclose the formulation, and most US manufacturers won't do that (trade secrets).

Jay

 

[LeftyReefer]

The two versions of the product are probably the Marine vs Freshwater (aquarium) versions.

The Marine versions says it contains:

Active Ingredients: Copper sulfate 1600 mg/100 ml, Formaldehyde 2040 mg/100 ml​

Available in the following variations: 100ml

I could not find a breakdown of the freshwater (aquarium version) on their website.

I'm guessing the freshwater/aquarium version is the low dose version, while the marine version looks like it actually contains more formalin than copper, 2040mg vs 1600mg.

 

[Mark Goode]

I checked with my FB friend in the UK. He doesn't know about this company's marine formulations (he is mostly a FW guy) He forwarded me this web site though:

Exemption from authorisation for medicines for small pet animals

How to comply with the exemption from the Veterinary Medicines Regulations that allow certain animal medicines to be sold without an authorisation.

www.gov.uk

In glancing through it, it looks like most aquarium medications would be allowed to be sold in the UK, but that you need to apply for a use permit. It may well be that the permit process requires that you disclose the formulation, and most US manufacturers won't do that (trade secrets).

Jay

It seems completely daft to me. You can buy chelated copper tablets for human consumption from any health food shop, so it's probably not the law that prevents its sale, but fears of lack of demand. Formalin and antibiotics are a different matter, and there are laws which tightly restrict their use. Praziquantel is also restricted, requiring a vet's prescription - though a product called Fluke Solve claims to contain it (I bought some).

 

[Mark Goode]

There was another recent thread about these products - was that yours? If not searching R2R may give some more information. One issue - I believe these medications are meant for 'treatment' of an active disease, as compared to a timed quarantine i.e. prophylaxis.

That said - and keeping in mind what @Jay Hemdal said, if all I had were those products I would use them carefully and strictly according to their directions (as compared to other protocols which would have different dosages and lengths of treatment.

PS - totally rhetorical question - I can see why different countries do not allow antibiotics to be sold without a prescription. I do not see why copper/formaldehyde solutions should not be available.

I don't see why there should be restrictions on copper, and to be honest I don't think there are any. Cupramine is sold freely, it's just scarce at the moment for some reason. Formalin is controlled: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-formaldehyde-formalin-rules

 

[MnFish1]

I don't see why there should be restrictions on copper, and to be honest I don't think there are any. Cupramine is sold freely, it's just scarce at the moment for some reason. Formalin is controlled: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-formaldehyde-formalin-rules

I don't either. (understand the reason for restrictions). If there were restrictions - I don't see how you could order it online. But - (no offense) - its your government - perhaps ask them? And I'm not trying to be sarcastic - but you're right - the rules do not seem to make common sense.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

It seems completely daft to me. You can buy chelated copper tablets for human consumption from any health food shop, so it's probably not the law that prevents its sale, but fears of lack of demand. Formalin and antibiotics are a different matter, and there are laws which tightly restrict their use. Praziquantel is also restricted, requiring a vet's prescription - though a product called Fluke Solve claims to contain it (I bought some).

Formalin use is allowed for fish under schedule 6 - but it is unclear to me how one gets approval for it.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1008124/MB_03.08.21__2153231-v3-Schedule_6_Table_of_approved_active_substances.pdf

Jay

 

[Mark Goode]

Formalin use is allowed for fish under schedule 6 - but it is unclear to me how one gets approval for it.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1008124/MB_03.08.21__2153231-v3-Schedule_6_Table_of_approved_active_substances.pdf

Jay

I think it's allowed for things like trout farms rather than hobbyists.