Nutrition: Lions,scorps, and others

[Lionfish hunter]

@Lionfish hunter you don't have to believe me or listen to anything I have to say. My way is only one way and I have had great success, where others haven't. So instead of trying to derail my information, when you have success, why don't you just share yours.

Look you said “Buying frozen is mostly dead in nutrients”. This is just not true. But I would like to know your reasoning besides anecdotal evidence for why fresh is so much better than frozen. Not being argumentative, just want to know, it is very difficult to find information on lion fish diet in captivity. I feed mine frozen saltwater baitfish that have been frozen to kill parasites. This seems to be the most natural way to go to duplicate their diet in the wild. Mine is also very large so it is easier to find him appropriately sized meals.

@Lionfish hunter you don't have to believe me or listen to anything I have to say. My way is only one way and I have had great success, where others haven't. So instead of trying to derail my information, when you have success, why don't you just shar

 

[lion king]

This is anecdotal evidence, and should not be relied upon as fact. Any number of things could have happened to the peoples fish over the course of many years. Aquarium store frozen food is not varied in species offered and many people who use frozen are getting it from pet store sources. The fact is, frozen fish do not lose nutrients if frozen properly. This has been studied extensively for the human population. If you claim you have seen Long term success with fresh not frozen, frozen being the only difference. I highly doubt there would have been a different outcome if those same foods were frozen. I have a 9 inch lion, but no I cannot document long term success with lions as of today. I can document failure using freeze dried krill, but that is neither here nor there with this argument.

I have been keeping lions for over 30 years and you may call it anecdotal evidence, but I am talking 100s of examples. And it's not just being frozen, it's also what you are feeding. While volitans do have a higher success when being fed frozen, they still have a much shorter lifespan than if being fed some of the fresh items I've recommended. I did also suggest freezing your own in small batches. Fresh frozen is different feom something you get from Walmart.

 

[xxkenny90xx]

The problem imo is pet store frozen fish food. Most people feed that junk that has been frozen, thawed, frozen, warmed in the sun, and frozen again.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

The problem imo is pet store frozen fish food. Most people feed that junk that has been frozen, thawed, frozen, warmed in the sun, and frozen again.

This is very possible. I have silversides in my freezer, they look like hell. But if “human“ grade frozen is the same as fresh, it would make feeding lion fish so much easier for most people.

 

[lion king]

Look you said “Buying frozen is mostly dead in nutrients”. This is just not true. But I would like to know your reasoning besides anecdotal evidence for why fresh is so much better than frozen. Not being argumentative, just want to know, it is very difficult to find information on lion fish diet in captivity. I feed mine frozen saltwater baitfish that have been frozen to kill parasites. This seems to be the most natural way to go to duplicate their diet in the wild. Mine is also very large so it is easier to find him appropriately sized meals.

I get your concern of parasite and that's fine that you do that. The nutritionally value in whole fish is very valuable. Since you are freezing them yourself you will still get some value from the bones and guts. Check out the bones of silversides you get at the lfs, they are soft, you can't tell me that still has valuable nutrients.

 

[lion king]

You are still not going to convince me that the fresh salmon I eat has the same nutritional value as something that has been frozen for who knows how long, and kept in various conditions. And all the concerns over parasites, I have never seen it.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You are still not going to convince me that the fresh salmon I eat has the same nutritional value as something that has been frozen for who knows how long, and kept in various conditions. And all the concerns over parasites, I have never seen it.

This is not about parasites, it is just one positive about freezin. And parasites from saltwater fish can certainly be a problem in whole fish. I do not think pet store silversides are frozen properly. But it is impossible to ignore all the data on nutrition and properly frozen fish. The fact is, science says they are the same quality.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

You are still not going to convince me that the fresh salmon I eat has the same nutritional value as something that has been frozen for who knows how long, and kept in various conditions. And all the concerns over parasites, I have never seen it.

You do have a lot of experience so I would like to ask you a question if you’re willing to answer. My lion fish has a perfectly circular white sphere directly in the middle of one eye. his eye is very clear and the fish is alert. He came with this and from what I can tell, it does not affect him. I however I can not find any info whatsoever on this. It is inside his eyeball, you can actually look into his eye to see it. He has no ich and has never had ich. If the other eye didn’t have it I would think it is normal as it is directly in the middle of his eye. Also do their antenna ever grow back?

 

[lion king]

You do have a lot of experience so I would like to ask you a question if you’re willing to answer. My lion fish has a perfectly circular white sphere directly in the middle of one eye. his eye is very clear and the fish is alert. He came with this and from what I can tell, it does not affect him. I however I can not find any info whatsoever on this. It is inside his eyeball, you can actually look into his eye to see it. He has no ich and has never had ich. If the other eye didn’t have it I would think it is normal as it is directly in the middle of his eye. Also do their antenna ever grow back?

That could be from an injury, how long have you had him. From what you are saying, it's likely not disease oriented. Have you checked to see if he has full vision in that eye. When that eye is facing you move your hand towards that eye to see how he reacts. His antennae's will grow back.

 

[Dj City]

I've had my V. Lionfish for 7 years on Frozen food.
I have feed him whole frozen cubes and about 3 months ago made my own frozen food mix.
My Homemade food is much better than anything I could buy at the pet shop but it's still frozen.

My lionfish is still healthy and happy.

Does 7 years count as long term?

 

[Dj City]

This is the food I made. It feeds fish, corals and the whole tank.

MEATY PROTEIN
Frozen shrimp
Frozen scallops
Frozen mussels
Frozen cod
Frozen tuna
Frozen clams
Frozen silversides
Frozen squid

DRY FOOD
New life spectrum marine pellet food
New life spectrum algae max pellet food
New life spectrum jumbo fish formula
Marineland Bio Blend carnivore diet pellets
Freeze dried mysis shrimp
Freeze dried krill
BRS Reef Chili
Two little fishies sea veggies mixed seaweed flakes
Calanus
Paracoccus
Spirulina

LIQUID FOOD
Selcon
Zoe
Brightwell AminOmega HUFA omega
Brightwell Coral Amino
Kent Garlic

 

[Lionfish hunter]

This is the food I made. It feeds fish, corals and the whole tank.

MEATY PROTEIN
Frozen shrimp
Frozen scallops
Frozen mussels
Frozen cod
Frozen tuna
Frozen clams
Frozen silversides
Frozen squid

DRY FOOD
New life spectrum marine pellet food
New life spectrum algae max pellet food
New life spectrum jumbo fish formula
Marineland Bio Blend carnivore diet pellets
Freeze dried mysis shrimp
Freeze dried krill
BRS Reef Chili
Two little fishies sea veggies mixed seaweed flakes
Calanus
Paracoccus
Spirulina

LIQUID FOOD
Selcon
Zoe
Brightwell AminOmega HUFA omega
Brightwell Coral Amino
Kent Garlic

How do you feed the pellets and flakes? I stuff some pellets into the mouths of the frozen fish. Wondering if there is a better way.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

That could be from an injury, how long have you had him. From what you are saying, it's likely not disease oriented. Have you checked to see if he has full vision in that eye. When that eye is facing you move your hand towards that eye to see how he reacts. His antennae's will grow back.

I've had him around a month, I do think he has full vision but would have to confirm in a few days as I am at work for a few days. Good to know his antennas will grow back.

 

[lion king]

This is the food I made. It feeds fish, corals and the whole tank.

MEATY PROTEIN
Frozen shrimp
Frozen scallops
Frozen mussels
Frozen cod
Frozen tuna
Frozen clams
Frozen silversides
Frozen squid

DRY FOOD
New life spectrum marine pellet food
New life spectrum algae max pellet food
New life spectrum jumbo fish formula
Marineland Bio Blend carnivore diet pellets
Freeze dried mysis shrimp
Freeze dried krill
BRS Reef Chili
Two little fishies sea veggies mixed seaweed flakes
Calanus
Paracoccus
Spirulina

LIQUID FOOD
Selcon
Zoe
Brightwell AminOmega HUFA omega
Brightwell Coral Amio
Kent Garlic

That mix is a bit more complex that what most people will do. One or 2 hobbyist will try and take apart my overall meaning by having a single success. Or by taking one individual statement like "frozen food has no value", and try and make the point invalid.

Yes 7 years is good time, and from what I gather you freeze your own food, as well as add many other nutrients. You also have a very complex varied list of ingredients.

The other word being used is "proper", sorry most frozen food is not properly frozen, transported, or stored.

This hobby is not absolute, and while there will be a few fhat have success feeding a Frozen, and maybe even a limited diet, the vast majority will not. And I many times have stated rhat volitans do seem to succeed better than the othee lions, on whatever diet. I still see volitans rarely reaching the 5 year mark. And again I'm talking 100s of examples, not just a few out of 1000s that are exception.

Fast food kills, but I know a few old people that have lived on it. Cigarettes kill but I do know a few very old people that smoke. You get my drift. Do I need to have a disclaimer in every one of my post. The basic frozen diet that most feed predators will end in a premature death(period)

 

[Dj City]

How do you feed the pellets and flakes? I stuff some pellets into the mouths of the frozen fish. Wondering if there is a better way.

I used large disposable pans from the dollar store. The kind you make lasagna In.
I shredded all the meaty food in a food processor while it was still frozen and put it in a large pan. The trick to this is putting ice in a pan then putting another pan on top of the ice so the shredded food can stay semi frozen.
I then mixed all the dry foods together in a separate pan.
I mixed all the liquid food in another pan.
Then I mixed the dry food with the frozen meaty food, then mixed the liquid food in.

I placed it all in large zip lock bags and keep it in the freezer.

I break off what I need to feed.
I have enough of this food to last me about a year and a half to 2 years.

 

[Lionfish hunter]

I used large disposable pans from the dollar store. The kind you make lasagna In.
I shredded all the meaty food in a food processor while it was still frozen and put it in a large pan. The trick to this is putting ice in a pan then putting another pan on top of the ice so the shredded food can stay semi frozen.
I then mixed all the dry foods together in a separate pan.
I mixed all the liquid food in another pan.
Then I mixed the dry food with the frozen meaty food, then mixed the liquid food in.

I placed it all in large zip lock bags and keep it in the freezer.

I break off what I need to feed.
I have enough of this food to last me about a year and a half to 2 years.

Very interesting. Do you feed it to the lion frozen? I am worried about it breaking apart and going everywhere once thawed out. I don't have any other fish to pick on the scaps, just the lion.

 

[Dj City]

I fed it frozen.
I just break off a chunk and drop it in.
He comes up and eats it whole.

He knows when I'm going to feed him. He can see me in the kitchen at the freezer getting the food. Whenever he sees me at the freezer he keeps an eye on me and he knows what the bag of food looks like.

He does the same with Frozen cubes from the pet shop.
I drop it in and he just eats the whole cube Frozen.

 

[lion king]

How do you feed the pellets and flakes? I stuff some pellets into the mouths of the frozen fish. Wondering if there is a better way.

If you wanted yo add pellets, you xould insert them into a cavity of the fish you are feeding. I would cut a chunk of food and push a pellet in.

 

[lion king]

I fed it frozen.
I just break off a chunk and drop it in.
He comes up and eats it whole.

He knows when I'm going to feed him. He can see me in the kitchen at the freezer getting the food. Whenever he sees me at the freezer he keeps an eye on me and he knows what the bag of food looks like.

He does the same with Frozen cubes from the pet shop.
I drop it in and he just eats the whole cube Frozen.

Inwould have to argue with you about the being happy part, not sure how eating frozen cubes of food would lead to happiness.

 

[Dj City]

That mix is a bit more complex that what most people will do. One or 2 hobbyist will try and take apart my overall meaning by having a single success. Or by taking one individual statement like "frozen food has no value", and try and make the point invalid.

Yes 7 years is good time, and from what I gather you freeze your own food, as well as add many other nutrients. You also have a very complex varied list of ingredients.

The other word being used is "proper", sorry most frozen food is not properly frozen, transported, or stored.

This hobby is not absolute, and while there will be a few fhat have success feeding a Frozen, and maybe even a limited diet, the vast majority will not. And I many times have stated rhat volitans do seem to succeed better than the othee lions, on whatever diet. I still see volitans rarely reaching the 5 year mark. And again I'm talking 100s of examples, not just a few out of 1000s that are exception.

Fast food kills, but I know a few old people that have lived on it. Cigarettes kill but I do know a few very old people that smoke. You get my drift. Do I need to have a disclaimer in every one of my post. The basic frozen diet that most feed predators will end in a premature death(period)

You and I have had this conversation over the past few years.
I agree that cheap Frozen food is not great for long term health. I'm afraid that many people will simply go to the lfs and get a bag of frozen krill, Frozen silversides and cube food and call it a diet.
It can be done but it's not optimal. Especially since frozen krill is not good for lionfish and my lion does not really like silversides.

LRS Reef Frenzy frozen food and Rod's frozen food are about the best frozen foods out there but my homemade food is much better, much healthier and much less expensive.