observations of an old salt

[shred5]

Here are pictures of rock in my 3 year old biocube. You can see the sponges and tunicates still on the LR. The dry rock has coralline (and some cyano lol) but none of the good stuff.

Man that rock is beautiful. I so miss all the freebies that used to come in on live rock and some of the cool stuff you cant buy in a store. I have had so many urchins, small brittle stars, snails, crabs, peanut worms, spaghetti worms, shrimp, tunicates, sea squirts, sponges etc. I got a cool gobbie once. I used to spend hours with a flashlight looking at rock at night to see what crawled out.

 

[Nano sapiens]

Yep, I think it was late 70's , but I had a thriving aquarium with star fish and orbic batfish. That was also when you used damsels to start the tank.
Some things have improved a lot but I still believe that live rock is the way to go.

Same here, late 70's. Fish & invert 35g TruVu acrylic hex with a large HOB filter. I used chunks of lava rock from a previous Mbuna tank and some dry coral sand inoculated with sand from the LFS and cycled with a single blue damsel. Damsel survived and was returned to the LFS for a Clarkii Clownfish and eventually some type of large red starfish that I fed everyday in a bowl and a big fat Sea Apple that loved brine shrimp and krill. Had that going for 3-4 years with no problems and only took it down when reef systems became known and I set one up.

 

[Paul B]

I set up my tank n 1971 using dead coral skeletons that I picked up SCUBA diving in Hawaii and the Caribbean. I bleached it in my hotel room and carried it back to my home on my lap on the plane. There was no inspections then and you could bring back a 1955 Oldsmobile with the trunk filled with pregnant Manta Rays if you wanted.

There was no live rock then and only damsels for fish. Oddly enough moorish Idols were an available fish at the very beginning of the hobby and I had one.

That tank is still running and still uses a reverse undergravel filter and although I couldn't get crushed coral then, I have dolomite which may be available in a museum or mausoleum.

Eventually I added "stuff" from the sea and some live rock. Of course bacteria came on live corals and garden soil that I still sometimes add.

To me there is nothing like real live rock right out of the sea and not even cultured, cured or whatever else they do to it.
I realize it is expensive but if you set up a tank correctly, you will never have to spend much money on it.
I am not sure what people are spending money on but I find this hobby comparatively cheap, especially if buying Islands is your other hobby.

I buy a fish for fifty bucks and it lives 15 or 20 years so it costs two bucks a year.

Live rock may cost a few hundred bucks, but if it lasts 50 years, it is cheap.

I am not sure why people keep setting up tanks and have to buy new stuff all the time. A tank should be eternal and once set up, stay up. I really don't get all the problems or extensive costs and I feel I am doing something wrong or not understanding.

I hear all this talk of hitchhikers. Yes there will always be hitchhikers, so what. Those things all live in the sea so consider them free life.
IMO tanks need real life from the sea, no matter what it is. I think bacteria in a bottle is silly as are probiotics. I take probiotics but I also eat natural food to get my "dirt" bacteria which my gut and my fishes gut needs for immunity.

Pro biotics and bacteria in a bottle is only "good" bacteria. Thats great but that stuff will do nothing for immunity or to create biodiversity. Biodiversity is another word for health.

If we remove or never add the correct organisms and micro organisms we will always have problems just is we add medications, especially antibiotics, Red Slime remover or any number of other bottled fish products I feel we screwed up already.

When the hobby started in the US in 1971 we couldn't get medications, so I used people stuff with disastrious results. But I was fairly stupid then. Now I am older, balder and almost, but not quite as stupid.



Now I have no use for medications or anything else.

I also feel if we only use store bought food that is specifically made for aquarium fish we are at a huge loss when it comes to natural gut bacteria and that is the sole reason for disease forums which I feel is a silly forum because fish should never get sick. We make them sick.
Now "I" feel sick so I am going to sit on my boat and ponder the future. Maybe drink a beer while I am at it.

 

[Sump Crab]

All this talk about liverock has me all worked up so I just ordered 3 lbs of liverock and 1lb of live sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater as a boost for my tanks diversity. Have not had new rock in nearly a decade from them. Time to re up! Richard is the man and runs a great business.

 

[Snoopdog]

All this talk about liverock has me all worked up so I just ordered 3 lbs of liverock and 1lb of live sand from Tampa Bay Saltwater as a boost for my tanks diversity. Have not had new rock in nearly a decade from them. Time to re up! Richard is the man and runs a great business.

With that small of an amount I guess you are just driving to pick it up?

 

[Sump Crab]

With that small of an amount I guess you are just driving to pick it up?

No, ups over night. I'm all in like $60 so I think its worth it

 

[Snoopdog]

No, ups over night. I'm all in like $60 so I think its worth it

I love options, hell that is worth it to not have a drive of 8 hours to me.

 

[forestsofkelp]

If you would guess how long it takes to start seeing the dead rock produce some life, how long?

My dead rock is now growing sponges etc after 2 years

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Been in the hobby for 15 years and I gotta spill my guts on this. So many algae filled white rock tanks out there these days. I mean picture after picture of unhealthy looking tanks. Whats up with this trend on starting a sterile dry rock tank?

Why are people so afraid of "pests"? I think the reason pests take hold and reach plague proportions is due to the lack of biodiversity found in these sterilized tanks. I mean I have vermitid snails and red planaria in my reef but they have found a balance in my ecosystem. I have to look hard just to find one flatworm and often times can't. I don't qt fish but my oldest is 12 years. I have so many unnamed critters and bristle worms yet my corals don't get eaten. I have algaes in my tank that can't compete against my Coraline. I relish the moments I discover a new critter in my tank, I certainly don't panic.

If you're new to the hobby just know that there is another way to start a reef that works. You can have a tank that is beautiful from day one. You don't have to go the dry rock route. Look at LIVErock as the single greatest investment in your reefs success.

I hope that a trend will start in the direction of farmed ocean rock. More biodiversity in reefs is needed. No longer will newbies wait for a year or longer for an established tank. No longer will the majority of tanks be a mixture of white, brown, and a handful of tiny unhappy frags.

I couldn't agree more! From the start, I knew that I wanted my tank to look like the ocean. I was (still am) more interested in the little inverts than coral, so I tried to scoop up critters and detritus wherever I could. Unfortunately, an overdose of Phosguard introduced the dreaded Ostreopsis dinoflagellates. After months of frustration, a few tears, etc. I finally bought some TBS rock and started dosing nitrates and phosphates. BOOM my tank is now home to the most amazing creatures I have ever seen (and some hair algae but that's so much better than dinos). I love taking my phone flashlight to the tank at night and watching the worms and crustaceans dart back into the crevices. My tank is so much more interesting now that I have critters popping up on a daily basis. My copepod population was nonexistent thanks to the dino toxins, and with the new rock and dosing the tank is swarming with them. I just noticed some new macroalgae and red chitons I have never seen before today. I am glad that I started with sterile ish rock in the beginning, only because my lack of knowledge would have killed everything. The trials I went through have brought me to learn so much. I can spot things that most don't see, my patience is slightly increased, etc. I just love the fact that my tank is stabilizing again.

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Personally if you are new to the hobby it is far less cheaper to buy established rock that dry rock when you consider all the equipment meds dips treatments loss of coral and fish you will factor in with dry sterile rock

You are absolutely correct. Heck, my TBS rock came with a complete clean up crew! You really do save money in the long run, especially if you get established rock with fish popping out of it and corals already growing. Plus, you can try your hand at corals that are currently illegal to harvest... unless it's growing on TBS rock!

 

[Snoopdog]

I remember 10+ years ago my first rock order was from the Marshall Islands. My favorite hitchhiker was a fish that swam out of a rock crevice within 5 minutes of putting the rock in the tank. How is that even possible?

 

[Snoopdog]

So thinking back more, I remember most of my tanks 10+ years ago had an old rubbermaid container as a sump. It seemed the common thing, most of us used things around the house as a sump. It wasn't until years later I purchased an acrylic sump. I had copious amounts of live rock in that rubbermaid sump. I eventually picked up some grape caulerpa from someone in town and threw it in there. For lighting we had found some power compact floodlight sold at what I remember was probably Wal-Mart at the time. You just hand wired a power cord to it, threw some wire nuts on it and put a piece of glass over the sump so that the light would not fall in. I was literally throwing large amounts of macro algae in the yard every month because I could not give the stuff away. Come to find now what people are paying $40-$60 for golfball size pieces online, crazy ****.

There are some really cool things about the hobby now that I am finding I like. I love LED lighting, love the attention to detail in my new Red Sea tank but dang people what is up with these sterile tanks? I almost want to start a vat of live rock in my garage and sell the **** around town as it matures.

 

[liverock]

No, ups over night. I'm all in like $60 so I think its worth it

Shipping live rock how it is done...in these covid days.....inside Florida, we can ship UPS overnight..very economically ..but outside Florida..using UPS......there are no guarantees and hang on to your bank account!

Shipping live rock...how it is done
No fed ex or UPS for live rock
________________________________________
OK...getting many messages about how much for folks to ship to their zip code...

This is real live rock that is shipped underwater and cannot be sent via fed ex or ups...you read all the time how some folks get their live rock delivered via ground service wrapped in wet newspapers and experience dead loss and stressed out live rock..death....and curing....and other issues....so that defeats the whole purpose of growing and shipping the highest quality live rock on the planet! That is not what this rock is about. This is real live rock that comes to you alive and happily shipped underwater and is added directly to your tank with no issues, every time, no curing no fuss no muss.

Most folks I ship The Package to
http://tbsaltwater.com/thepackage/index.html

never even get an ammonia spike and have a cycled happy reef tank in a week.
http://tbsaltwater.com/testimonials/index.html

I ship via the airlines to your airport. This insures a fast and timely shipment, usually same day to your airport. I pack it in the morning and you pick it up after work. You can safely add this rock to an existing cycled tank with no issues.

Pick up is easy, I supply the shipping info...and you just back up to the air cargo building load your boxes and off you go. It is not where you go as a passenger, the freight facility is in a different location, usually. Is quick, painless and insures you have the best quality live rock on the planet!

And....for weight estimate, for live rock only you can double the amount of rock ordered for an estimate on total weight with water on it. IE fifty pounds of rock will weigh about ninety pounds with the water on it and be shipped in two boxes 17.17.10 inches. All the airlines are at about $90 per 100 pounds shipping charge. I pack 20-25 pounds per box of rock. So 50 pounds of live rock shipped to your airport would be about $90 in freight charges....or a little less. Anything over 100 pounds is an additional .90 a pound.

If ordering a Package, triple the size of the Package for weight estimate on part one, and a little less on part two as you won't have the live sand weight. IE a 30 gallon Package will weigh about ninety pounds part one...and little less on part two.




__________________

 

[Sump Crab]

Shipping live rock how it is done...in these covid days.....inside Florida, we can ship UPS overnight..very economically ..but outside Florida..using UPS......there are no guarantees and hang on to your bank account!

Shipping live rock...how it is done
No fed ex or UPS for live rock
________________________________________
OK...getting many messages about how much for folks to ship to their zip code...

This is real live rock that is shipped underwater and cannot be sent via fed ex or ups...you read all the time how some folks get their live rock delivered via ground service wrapped in wet newspapers and experience dead loss and stressed out live rock..death....and curing....and other issues....so that defeats the whole purpose of growing and shipping the highest quality live rock on the planet! That is not what this rock is about. This is real live rock that comes to you alive and happily shipped underwater and is added directly to your tank with no issues, every time, no curing no fuss no muss.

Most folks I ship The Package to
http://tbsaltwater.com/thepackage/index.html

never even get an ammonia spike and have a cycled happy reef tank in a week.
http://tbsaltwater.com/testimonials/index.html

I ship via the airlines to your airport. This insures a fast and timely shipment, usually same day to your airport. I pack it in the morning and you pick it up after work. You can safely add this rock to an existing cycled tank with no issues.

Pick up is easy, I supply the shipping info...and you just back up to the air cargo building load your boxes and off you go. It is not where you go as a passenger, the freight facility is in a different location, usually. Is quick, painless and insures you have the best quality live rock on the planet!

And....for weight estimate, for live rock only you can double the amount of rock ordered for an estimate on total weight with water on it. IE fifty pounds of rock will weigh about ninety pounds with the water on it and be shipped in two boxes 17.17.10 inches. All the airlines are at about $90 per 100 pounds shipping charge. I pack 20-25 pounds per box of rock. So 50 pounds of live rock shipped to your airport would be about $90 in freight charges....or a little less. Anything over 100 pounds is an additional .90 a pound.

If ordering a Package, triple the size of the Package for weight estimate on part one, and a little less on part two as you won't have the live sand weight. IE a 30 gallon Package will weigh about ninety pounds part one...and little less on part two.




__________________

UPS will be here any minute with my LR. Thanks!

 

[Streetcred]

Seems like I have been 'lucky' for more than 20 years ... good old live rock and livestock has been transferred from each upgrade along the way ... current 500G tank is around 15 years old ... along with some of the fish.

 

[Streetcred]

Shipping live rock how it is done...in these covid days.....inside Florida, we can ship UPS overnight..very economically ..but outside Florida..using UPS......there are no guarantees and hang on to your bank account!

Shipping live rock...how it is done
No fed ex or UPS for live rock
________________________________________
OK...getting many messages about how much for folks to ship to their zip code...

This is real live rock that is shipped underwater and cannot be sent via fed ex or ups...you read all the time how some folks get their live rock delivered via ground service wrapped in wet newspapers and experience dead loss and stressed out live rock..death....and curing....and other issues....so that defeats the whole purpose of growing and shipping the highest quality live rock on the planet! That is not what this rock is about. This is real live rock that comes to you alive and happily shipped underwater and is added directly to your tank with no issues, every time, no curing no fuss no muss.

Most folks I ship The Package to
http://tbsaltwater.com/thepackage/index.html

never even get an ammonia spike and have a cycled happy reef tank in a week.
http://tbsaltwater.com/testimonials/index.html

I ship via the airlines to your airport. This insures a fast and timely shipment, usually same day to your airport. I pack it in the morning and you pick it up after work. You can safely add this rock to an existing cycled tank with no issues.

Pick up is easy, I supply the shipping info...and you just back up to the air cargo building load your boxes and off you go. It is not where you go as a passenger, the freight facility is in a different location, usually. Is quick, painless and insures you have the best quality live rock on the planet!

And....for weight estimate, for live rock only you can double the amount of rock ordered for an estimate on total weight with water on it. IE fifty pounds of rock will weigh about ninety pounds with the water on it and be shipped in two boxes 17.17.10 inches. All the airlines are at about $90 per 100 pounds shipping charge. I pack 20-25 pounds per box of rock. So 50 pounds of live rock shipped to your airport would be about $90 in freight charges....or a little less. Anything over 100 pounds is an additional .90 a pound.

If ordering a Package, triple the size of the Package for weight estimate on part one, and a little less on part two as you won't have the live sand weight. IE a 30 gallon Package will weigh about ninety pounds part one...and little less on part two.
__________________

Par for the course here in Australia. Natural liverock is outstanding though I have always picked the macro algae off it ... sometimes it comes back ... and given a quick freshwater dip to chase out the nasties. Over time the bacteria has likely become monocultured but an ocean fresh piece of rock every other couple of years has normally done the trick.