Oh no another cycling question!!

[Letterkenny]

I know I have read this somewhere but can’t find the post for the life of me. How much ammonia do I add to the tank during the cycle in terms of ml versus drops for the Dr Tim’s ammonia chloride? I have seen several debates that the ammonia level per drop is off of a total volume basis and, given I am dosing for approx 110g of tank volume, using a syringe would be easier than counting drops.

Also, I have also read about doing 1ppm vs 2ppm. Any further insight on that? I will be dosing ~12 oz of turbo start 900 (wife spilled ~4oz yesterday) so should cycle quickly.

 

[gabrieltackitt]

Not sure on the conversion but maybe do the correct number of drops into a cup once and then measure that by sucking it into a syringe? Then going forward you’d know precisely.

 

[Idoc]

I don't know the specifics with Dr Tims method, but when i dosed pure ammonia, i dosed using this attached calculator. It gets you into the ballpark.

Also, dose to 2ppm.

Calculator

 

[andrewey]

Most dose small tanks to 2ppm initially and 2ppm for their ammonia processing tests. Many dose larger tanks to 2ppm for their first dose and 1ppm for their ammonia processing test.

Differences in # of drops is largely driven by the fact that Dr. Tim's instructions changed (because of a concentration change). So people are comparing apples to oranges. Some have found the number of drops on the bottle don't agree, but I found in my case that they were accurate. None the less, I would dose half and check.

 

[Letterkenny]

I dosed it to 1-2ppm per the test kit (5 minutes after adding 5ml of dr time ammonia chloride rated for 100g) and added 12-14oz of turbo start. I’m hoping that this will cycle relatively quickly so that I don’t have my wife complaining about two fish tanks in the living room!

 

[Letterkenny]

I dosed fairly heavily on the bacteria and this is the first time using turbo start but 24 hours later, my 1-2ppm ammonia is looking like zero. I think I saw the studies taking a day or two but does this make sense? Will test nitrites to see if that was processed as well.

 

[andrewey]

It very possible. Some people have reported results that quickly with the product, others have taken longer. The real complicating factors that prevent a "one size fits all technique" is the supply chain of the bacteria, the accuracy/resolution of the testing kits, and the local conditions of your particular ecosystem. For these reasons, it's important to test, but I wouldn't dismiss your findings, only confirm all the components of the nitrogen cycle as you normally would.

 

[Letterkenny]

It very possible. Some people have reported results that quickly with the product, others have taken longer. The real complicating factors that prevent a "one size fits all technique" is the supply chain of the bacteria, the accuracy/resolution of the testing kits, and the local conditions of your particular ecosystem. For these reasons, it's important to test, but I wouldn't dismiss your findings, only confirm all the components of the nitrogen cycle as you normally would.

I dosed what is rated as 400g worth of bacteria for a 110g of total system volume (approx) to have a faster cycle so plausible I guess. I’ve used dr Tim’s one and only last time so just want to confirm. I still have some projects that need to be done before I can migrate my old tank into this new one.

 

[andrewey]

Just a heads up, adding more bacteria likely won't make your cycle any faster. It probably doesn't apply in this situation, but if dosed high enough, there is a point in which dosing more is actually counterproductive and will only serve to harm the tank and/or the cycle.

 

[Natedogg1978]

I know I have read this somewhere but can’t find the post for the life of me. How much ammonia do I add to the tank during the cycle in terms of ml versus drops for the Dr Tim’s ammonia chloride? I have seen several debates that the ammonia level per drop is off of a total volume basis and, given I am dosing for approx 110g of tank volume, using a syringe would be easier than counting drops.

Also, I have also read about doing 1ppm vs 2ppm. Any further insight on that? I will be dosing ~12 oz of turbo start 900 (wife spilled ~4oz yesterday) so should cycle quickly.

I am cycling currently with Dr. Tim's Ammonium chloride, (55 gallon tank) as well as (2) two oz bottles of Dr. Tim's One and Only Bacteria. By following Dr. Tim's youtube video's, the instructions on the bottle will get you to 2 ppm ammonia reading.
I inverted the ammonium chloride bottle and counted to 220 drops which the bottle instructed 4 drops per gallon of water volume. Counting the drops was not a big deal or difficult. The next day I was at 2 ppm.
I wish I also had used Turbo start 900, as I am on day 32 of cycling and am just now, at .15 ppm ammonia. It was a slow and steady process. I do recommend getting a small notebook and test and write your readings DAILY, this will help you see the cycling process.

 

[Letterkenny]

Just a heads up, adding more bacteria likely won't make your cycle any faster. It probably doesn't apply in this situation, but if dosed high enough, there is a point in which dosing more is actually counterproductive and will only serve to harm the tank and/or the cycle.

It’s rated up to 5x for faster cycling which I used less so should be fine there.

 

[andrewey]

It’s rated up to 5x for faster cycling which I used less so should be fine there.

Sorry, I should have clarified- the majority of bacterial additives (Microbacter, Fritz, etc.) can be overdosed. I have limited experience with Dr. Tims specifically and don't remember whether that's a concern or not. I just know a few people have tried to do the "faster cycling" by overdosing and it's predictably lead to poor outcomes, so I just wanted to leave that there for someone else reading and making inferences about their own products.

 

[Natedogg1978]

It’s rated up to 5x for faster cycling which I used less so should be fine there.

Yes, actually on day 10 i was still at 2 ppm ammonia reading, so I bought a bottle of Fritz 9, 32oz bottle and added the whole bottle. This was not the turbo start, but the regular Fritz 9 bacteria. The day after I saw the ammonia drop. I should have started with the Turbo start 900. I have heard better results. One thing i remember seeing in the cycling process after adding the Fritz 9 was a very cloudy or hazy look to the water which I assume was the bacteria, this is something I really didn't see with the two bottles of One and Only.

 

[Letterkenny]

Yes, actually on day 10 i was still at 2 ppm ammonia reading, so I bought a bottle of Fritz 9, 32oz bottle and added the whole bottle. This was not the turbo start, but the regular Fritz 9 bacteria. The day after I saw the ammonia drop. I should have started with the Turbo start 900. I have heard better results. One thing i remember seeing in the cycling process after adding the Fritz 9 was a very cloudy or hazy look to the water which I assume was the bacteria, this is something I really didn't see with the two bottles of One and Only.

Yep I saw this too. I added another 5ml of ammonia which is rated to do 100 gallons at 2ppm two hours ago or so and it says it’s already down to 0.5-0.4 and nitrites being the same. I don’t think ammonia goes bad and it would accurately does based on drops on my old tank. I believe the R2R study has this cycling in about 2 days at normal dosing so maybe it’s actually there already. I will retest everything in the morning and see where it is. I’m using dry rock and live sand but the live sand shouldn’t play that big of a role.

 

[Letterkenny]

For those interested, per this thread it dropped ammonia at 8ppm to 4ppm in 24 hours and then to 0.25 in 48 hours total time. See page 20 for results.

Bacteria in a bottle, Myth or Fact

Call me old school, back in the day we placed a deli shrimp in a tank to kick start the cycle. When tank reached 1.5-2 ppm ammonia we pulled it out and waited sometimes weeks to months for bacteria to colonize and drop ammonia and nitrites down to 0 to make tank safe for livestock. With recent...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Natedogg1978]

Yep I saw this too. I added another 5ml of ammonia which is rated to do 100 gallons at 2ppm two hours ago or so and it says it’s already down to 0.5-0.4 and nitrites being the same. I don’t think ammonia goes bad and it would accurately does based on drops on my old tank. I believe the R2R study has this cycling in about 2 days at normal dosing so maybe it’s actually there already. I will retest everything in the morning and see where it is. I’m using dry rock and live sand but the live sand shouldn’t play that big of a role.

 

[Natedogg1978]

I do think the sand actually makes a big difference, think of all those sand particles that provide bacteria to attach to and populate. That might be a big factor with my 32 day cycle time as I am doing a bare bottom, (no sand for me) however I do have roughly 40 pounds of Caribsea life rock in the display and a marine pure block along with three sponges In my sump for surface area for bacteria growth.
I only assume sand would have shortened my cycle time (along with just starting with the Fritz Turbo start 900).

 

[Natedogg1978]

I would just make sure you are also testing your nitrites and nitrates and make sure you are seeing those rise and fall.

 

[Letterkenny]

I would just make sure you are also testing your nitrites and nitrates and make sure you are seeing those rise and fall.

I did live sand, life rock, and both Biospira and one and only on my last tank and it cycled in about a week or two. Based on the studies performed at that thread I linked, I believe the Fritz is the big factor here. Also, nitrates will just rise unless you have some sort of export system (skimmer, Fuge, vodka dosing). It’s really only pertinent to test ammonia and nitrites and the nitrite bacteria takes a bit longer to grow.

If my levels check out again, I might put some of my hardy corals in there and add some CUC before adding my clowns and Midas Blenny from my old tank.

 

[codycolina707]

I did live sand, life rock, and both Biospira and one and only on my last tank and it cycled in about a week or two. Based on the studies performed at that thread I linked, I believe the Fritz is the big factor here. Also, nitrates will just rise unless you have some sort of export system (skimmer, Fuge, vodka dosing). It’s really only pertinent to test ammonia and nitrites and the nitrite bacteria takes a bit longer to grow.

If my levels check out again, I might put some of my hardy corals in there and add some CUC before adding my clowns and Midas Blenny from my old tank.

usually the ammonia will drop within 1-2 days but nitrite to nitrates has always took me about 2 weeks