OK so what is stopping you installing an Algae Turf Scrubber on your system?
- Thread starter atoll
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OP
OP
My ATS from turning off the supply pump removing and cleaning the screen, putting it back and switching it back on takes me no more than 10 mins if that a week.
yellojello
Active Member
d2mini
5000 Club Member
Once a month.Rip chaeto apart... about less than 10 seconds
Atoll, why are you so gung ho to make it seem like ATS or AS is the be all end all of nutrient export?
Ya, it works but so do other methods. And so far, I'm not seeing any major stand out advantage. Just little things that may or may not matter.
Again, no disrespect towards you or that particular method. I'm glad you are excited about it and that it works for you and others. But like many things in this hobby there is more ways than one to skin the cat. Which is pretty awesome.
Until someone can prove there is some magical benefit for my reef to use a scrubber vs a fuge, I'll just stick with my fuge.
bfliflet
Community Member
If you're going to export algae, a major question is how much do I want to remove for the ~12hrs of light applied to it. If chaeto is exported once a month whereas ATS is exported around 1-2wks, doesn't that imply that growth rate is faster? Harvesting is usually driven by space constraints and/or die off caused by growth. Nutrient uptake can vary but structurally they appear very similar which leads me to believe nutrient uptake relative to growth is similar. Fwiw, I don't care what I grow with my light. It's green, thick, stringy and I pull 2-3 cups out per week on my 360g. I also supplement with skimming, socks, GAC, and the occasional carbon dosing as well as Lanthanum Chloride. For me, it's more about overlapping redundancy in case one facet of my life support system fails, encounters a spike in waste, etc.
A wise policy.
I do something very similar. Have a stand alone 40 breeder where I grow cheato with a powerful grow light.
I call it, The Fuge of the Steriods and it does an amazing job since upgrading the light. I have another 40 that I plan to use and redesign the fuge with more surface area for more cheato to grow.
Interesting but when your science link shows me this and an example of a reef tank solely maintained by a ATS...
luke33
2500 Club Member
Just looks like gha with some filamentous mixed in.
Here is the place I was mentioning earlier, been building ats since 92. I remember them showing everyone there turf scrubbers 10 yrs ago at the swaps and their tables were empty because they just weren't popular. I think they work well but if your main filtration is an ats and you like to keep a natural reef, like myself, you have a yellow tint in your water. Honestly that was the biggest reasons not to use one.
http://atscrubber.com/
d2mini
5000 Club Member
Not necessarily. Are we comparing a 20g fuge to a 8" x 4" screen? AKA a handful or two of scrubber turf vs a 3g bucket of chaeto.
With either method, the smaller it is, the sooner you'll have to remove/trim. Refugiums tend to be larger than ATS.
And yes, it's possible for growth rate and/or nutrient export to be faster with one vs the other. Entirely possible for it to be too fast, where you are now dosing nitrate or something back into the tank.
Can easily happen with either method. I usually have problems keeping nutrients high enough in my tank with chaeto. Adjusting photoperiod can help.
Interesting but when your science link shows me this and an example of a reef tank solely maintained by a ATS...
I know looks pretty gross. That was an experiment back in the 80s iirc. And they didn't supply calcium supplements. Neither did they use carbon or ozone to remove gelbestroph, which results from bacterial decay. They also didnt scrape their screens. That said, here is a better example of a tank run with an ats:
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/155-tank-of-the-month
bfliflet
Community Member
My comments were based on observations of various sized tanks and algae export methods and associated harvesting rates. One reason I anecdotally believe ATS may be more efficient per watt is that the strands of algae in an ATS have to compete amongst each other (and the tank) whereas chaeto only has to compete with the tank. Asked a different way, how big of a chaeto ball and nutrient load need to be to export 2-3cups per week in my 360g? I'd gladly trade my 2week / 10min maintenance for 10 secs a month. Has anyone tried aerating a chaeto ball? That would appear structurally similar to an upflow ATS.
One question I've always wondered about with ATS is that I frequently hit oxygen saturation levels in my tank as bubbles get produced from micro algae during peak DT lighting intensity. I know corals can experience O2 poisoning with heavy lighting but without adequate flow. I wonder if elevated O2 caused by heavy ATS may be detrimental to corals during peak DT lighting hours...
Has anyone tried aerating a chaeto ball? That would appear structurally similar to an upflow ATS.One question I've always wondered about with ATS is that I frequently hit oxygen saturation levels in my tank as bubbles get produced from micro algae during peak DT lighting intensity. I know corals can experience O2 poisoning with heavy lighting but without adequate flow. I wonder if elevated O2 caused by heavy ATS may be detrimental to corals during peak DT lighting hours...
I know looks pretty gross. That was an experiment back in the 80s iirc. And they didn't supply calcium supplements. Neither did they use carbon or ozone to remove gelbestroph, which results from bacterial decay. They also didnt scrape their screens. That said, here is a better example of a tank run with an ats:
http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/155-tank-of-the-month
Ok that tank has one skimmer rated for up to 2500g along with 2 more rated for up to 1000g each. And the algae scrubber is doing what? Not saying they don't work, just my example is of a tank filtered by an ATS. This one is more of an afterthought.
Does this tank even have an ATS? or is that just an example of a tank with a fuge?
Yes it has a small one. Im not saying ats are necessary to be a stand alone filter, the more the better, but what im saying is they will drop no3/po4 very well.
There are more if you look. If you dont like an ats, or want one, its okay. But what i find really strange is when you hook one up, it grows no matter what your test kit reads. And grows and grows. Its pretty astonishing actually. I had a skimmer rated for a 500 gallon tank on a 20 gallon. Didnt stop it from growing in the tank. Until inadded my diy ats. Now it grows there and not in the tank. A little will pop up here and there, but it gets eaten. Its a nice supplement to add.
I know they work. I was even looking into these earlier this month.
As someone who has had great success without a fuge, I have been strongly considering the addition of one. Especially after the BRS video. I just struggle as I don't really want the added maintenance when I know what I am capable of without. My problem is I'm never happy and always striving for far more!
My comments were based on observations of various sized tanks and algae export methods and associated harvesting rates. One reason I anecdotally believe ATS may be more efficient per watt is that the strands of algae in an ATS have to compete amongst each other (and the tank) whereas chaeto only has to compete with the tank. Asked a different way, how big of a chaeto ball and nutrient load need to be to export 2-3cups per week in my 360g? I'd gladly trade my 2week / 10min maintenance for 10 secs a month.
One question I've always wondered about with ATS is that I frequently hit oxygen saturation levels in my tank as bubbles get produced from micro algae during peak DT lighting intensity. I know corals can experience O2 poisoning with heavy lighting but without adequate flow. I wonder if elevated O2 caused by heavy ATS may be detrimental to corals during peak DT lighting hours...
No elevated o2 wont caise problems to corals. Elevated light may with higher temps. But i was wrong once back in 1828. Kiddding.
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