OK so what is stopping you installing an Algae Turf Scrubber on your system?

[gcarroll]

You want a reference to a study providing data to back up the anecdotal evidence that algae growing on a screen or in a refugium provides an optimum environment to enable the proliferation of pods?

There could be one, i don't know, i haven't searched for one.

It is the case, in my exprrience.

Perhaps you'd like to provide data suggesting why that environment wouldn't enhance pod production, seeing as you find it hard to believe?

I asked for the info because it was used as a basis for a statement that was made by @Picassoclown . I never said there was data out there stating otherwise.

It was completely obvious to me that he is slinging around some far out benefits and doesn't quite understand the information that he is researching.

I really wish I had responded earlier as I also noticed the same problems that @Randy Holmes-Farley noted about his most recent statements.

As for ATS. I have seen several studies on the method. Many of them are geared to growing algae for biofuel and water treatment. I do feel that those studies are not directly related toward our uses and while they are not dismissable, I feel they are certainly debatable. Tyhat is the only way to separate myth from reality.

IMO, ATS is just ANOTHER method for keeping a beautiful aquarium. In the end, ATS's are not producing better tanks that tanks filtered by skimmers, refugiums, various medias, or carbon dosing.

 

[atoll]

While it wasn't my comment, using GFO certainly allows one to export phosphate without further reducing nitrate if nitrate is normal or already too low, which is reasonably common. Hence GFO might be described as allowing more control.

It also allows more control in a very high phosphate setting, where mixed export system such as ATS, macroalgae, or organic carbon dosing might not be up to the task, either in the time it requires, or the amount of nitrate that would be needed.

Hence why I continue to use PO4 remover but my ATS is excellent at reducingNO3 not as good as reducing PO4 however.

 

[hart24601]

"IMO, ATS is just ANOTHER method for keeping a beautiful aquarium. In the end, ATS's are not producing better tanks that tanks filtered by skimmers, refugiums, various medias, or carbon dosing."


Exactly. I have never seen a jaw dropping tank and the owner said "My secret is only using an ATS".


After the BRS video on chaeto I am now setting up a chaeto reactor with a pump I already have and a old reactor. Just ordered the grow lights from amazon. It can fit in the 4x4 gap I have between sump and stand. Pretty sweet imo.

 

[atoll]

IMO, ATS is just ANOTHER method for keeping a beautiful aquarium. In the end, ATS's are not producing better tanks that tanks filtered by skimmers, refugiums, various medias, or carbon dosing.

Agreed, and is anybody disputing it? We may all have our favourite methods often based on what works best for us. I have tried pellets also use Siporax with my ATs but it never brought down NO3 like my ATS has, Nopox, I have used denitrification methods using methanol in permeable bags a la minireef style and others. However, none of the previous methods I used worked as well as this ATS for reducing NO3 for me. All have their benefits and Achilles heel, some more so than others. I do feel however ATS's are still considered snake oil by many and don't really understand their function, limitations and benefits. What works for you and your chosen method is fine and results with just about all methods work but as people have noted not all methods work for everybody, why that is, is open to anybody's guess.

 

[atoll]

"


Exactly. I have never seen a jaw dropping tank and the owner said "My secret is only using an ATS".

One reason for that is it's no secret but there are plenty of great looking tanks using an ATS you just have to look for them as they are hardly the most popular form of filtration, after all, no BIG company I know of manufactures them yet so no advertising of them like other forms of filtration etc. Some people say my tank is "jaw dropping" I wouldn't consider it so esp given it's only been set up 13 months and most corals have come from frags. I don't have unlimited funds to buy the most expensive corals esp as I am retired on a pension. Maybe one day, however, it's doing pretty well and I put some of that success down to my ATS.

 

[Brew12]

In my opinion, an ATS is nothing more than a high density fuge. If the space and lighting is available for a full size fuge I feel it is better to go that route. If you are space limited or don't want a high dollar light over your fuge, an ATS is a very nice compromise.

 

[Leaellynasaura]

The noise. I set one up and ran it overnight. I had not even installed the lights yet when I yanked it out of the sump the next morning. The noise of the waterfall kept me awake all night and it was in the basement under my bedroom.

 

[atoll]

The noise. I set one up and ran it overnight. I had not even installed the lights yet when I yanked it out of the sump the next morning. The noise of the waterfall kept me awake all night and it was in the basement under my bedroom.

Then it was a poor design.Like a powerhead if it's not the quality it will be noisy. You can't hear mine unless you open the cabinet doors and get close to it. What make was it?

 

[IxTCxI]

I'm afraid it will suck all the nutrient out and kill all my SPS.

 

[atoll]

I'm afraid it will suck all the nutrient out and kill all my SPS.

Seriously? lol.

 

[IxTCxI]

Seriously? lol.

Naw lol the real reason is I'm too lazy to set it up.

 

[atoll]

Naw lol the real reason is I'm too lazy to set it up.

This is not a hobby for lazy people lol
Actually it surprises the amount of time people will fiddle with dosers etc trying to get things right, calibrating and a scrubber takes a little time to get set up and running with minimal maintenance time required. Yes I know some will tell me they hardly ever touch their doser once set up but I do hear of regular failures and chemicals being dumped into the sump far in excess what they programmed them to do. Still, you pays your money and takes your pick.

 

[Picassoclown]

I asked for the info because it was used as a basis for a statement that was made by @Picassoclown . I never said there was data out there stating otherwise.

It was completely obvious to me that he is slinging around some far out benefits and doesn't quite understand the information that he is researching.

Completely obvious to me that he is slinging far out benefits and doesn't quite understand the information he is researching...wow pretty strong statement you are making there considering you know nothing about me or the field of work I am involved in. Apparently, you have yet to understand the rules of this forum. This isn't a place to be "slinging" around ridicule. As far as the research I told you I cannot find it and I even provided you websites and places to go look at, along with people's experience. Where you not the one who said you will not read through 9 pages to find an answer and then you say something like this? Bottom line ATS grows algae faster and compared to the size of a refugium, proportionately speaking, it does produce more growth. I do not want to start an argument with you as you are well known member and I am new and out of respect for this forum. But do me a favor and no longer reply to any of my posts going further in the future. All you have to do is provide your opinion along with some data that I could have missed and I would be glad to look at it. I came here to learn and expand my knowledge, not be ridiculed. Nice chatting with you anyway.

 

[TbyZ]

There's no denying that there are lots of people out there for whom scrubbers have not worked. I don't know how many, and it may only be a small minority of the people who have tried.

Well there's another proclamation you've made, that you can't back up with 'data', & again amend with "I don't know", but consider it fact & undeniably?

 

[Picassoclown]

Hey @TbyZ Awesome information you provided in the previous page and you said you had amazing pod growth. What size is your ATS? Any mandarins. Would love to see your set-up!

 

[FlyinBryan]

Following

 

[TbyZ]

Hey @TbyZ Awesome information you provided in the previous page and you said you had amazing pod growth. What size is your ATS? Any mandarins. Would love to see your set-up!

I suggested growing algae provided an optimal environment for pods to proliferate. I witnessed this by what began appearing in my filter floss (no longer use) after setting up a scrubber.

No manderins.

My set-up is boring. Scrubber - ROX 08 - water change once a month if i have time. No mechanical filtration.

 

[atoll]

In my opinion, an ATS is nothing more than a high density fuge. If the space and lighting is available for a full size fuge I feel it is better to go that route. If you are space limited or don't want a high dollar light over your fuge, an ATS is a very nice compromise.

IMO an ATS is not a compromise on a fuge it's an improvement in most respect and yes I have had fuges in the past. There are many benefits over a fuge and few disadvantages as most people who have changed from one to an ATS can testify to I am but one of them. Most of these advantages have been well documented so I will refrain from going over them yet again on here.

 

[Brew12]

IMO an ATS is not a compromise on a fuge it's an improvement in most respect and yes I have had fuges in the past. There are many benefits over a fuge and few disadvantages as most people who have changed from one to an ATS can testify to I am but one of them. Most of these advantages have been well documented so I will refrain from going over them yet again on here.

I didn't go back and read all 17 pages worth of posts, so maybe I am missing out. I don't see it being so clear cut.

ATS
-smaller footprint
-less energy intensive
-less expensive
-less heat generation

Fuge
-larger water volume
-allows diversity of macro algae
-better for supporting copepods
-area to temporarily house problematic livestock

Am I missing anything significant?

 

[atoll]

I didn't go back and read all 17 pages worth of posts, so maybe I am missing out. I don't see it being so clear cut.

ATS
-smaller footprint
-less energy intensive
-less expensive
-less heat generation

Fuge
-larger water volume
-allows diversity of macro algae
-better for supporting copepods
-area to temporarily house problematic livestock

Am I missing anything significant?

You missed out.
ATS
More efficient not just in energy. Sq inch to square inch or cubic inch if you prefer.
Helps maintain PH better with less swing.
Helps oxygenate the water.
More efficient CO2 reduction. (connected to PH above)
I also have a diversity of algae growing on the screen EG I grow Ulva on the screen and a number os species of GHA.

I still have an area that was my fuge but use the space for other things like Siporax so still have a similar water volume.