OK so what is stopping you installing an Algae Turf Scrubber on your system?

[Picassoclown]

I didn't go back and read all 17 pages worth of posts, so maybe I am missing out. I don't see it being so clear cut.

ATS
-smaller footprint
-less energy intensive
-less expensive
-less heat generation

Fuge
-larger water volume
-allows diversity of macro algae
-better for supporting copepods
-area to temporarily house problematic livestock

Am I missing anything significant?

Hey Brew. I would say the added cooling through evaporation (if using the waterfall style) is an important one to add. Especially if peoples tanks get too hot, adding this may help a bit.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Am I missing anything significant?

Two other potential pros of fuges:

1. If the fuge has rock in it (mine did), it allows for possible denitrification and a place for bacteria to grow (aerobic and anoxic) since I dosed vinegar just upstream of it. I never saw any visible bacteira in the display tank, except at super high doses when I saw haziness in the water.

2. A place for particulates to settle out (some might view this as a con, I thought of it as a pro).

 

[atoll]

Hey Brew. I would say the added cooling through evaporation (if using the waterfall style) is an important one to add. Especially if peoples tanks get too hot, adding this may help a bit.

Not sure if there is any significant heat loss, however, we are currently having a heat wave here in the UK and my tank has coped well with it. Think I may have spoken too soon as that heat wave seems to have come to an end today. Many people here are experiencing heat issues, however.

 

[atoll]

Two other potential pros of fuges:

1. If the fuge has rock in it (mine did), it allows for possible denitrification and a place for bacteria to grow (aerobic and anoxic) since I dosed vinegar just upstream of it. I never saw any visible bacteira in the display tank, except at super high doses when I saw haziness in the water.

I have Siporax in the area of my fudge. Yes I guess its still a fuge I just don't grow algae in it anymore.

2. A place for particulates to settle out (some might view this as a con, I thought of it as a pro).

I also get particulates settle out in my fuge and pods in the Siporax.
I believe I have just made my sump more efficient and able to house equipment I wouldn't have otherwise had I had my fuge to grow algae in.

My sump complete with fuge in the centre section housing Siporax being obscured by my ATU reservoir .

 

[gcarroll]

Completely obvious to me that he is slinging far out benefits and doesn't quite understand the information he is researching...wow pretty strong statement you are making there considering you know nothing about me or the field of work I am involved in. Apparently, you have yet to understand the rules of this forum. This isn't a place to be "slinging" around ridicule. As far as the research I told you I cannot find it and I even provided you websites and places to go look at, along with people's experience. Where you not the one who said you will not read through 9 pages to find an answer and then you say something like this? Bottom line ATS grows algae faster and compared to the size of a refugium, proportionately speaking, it does produce more growth. I do not want to start an argument with you as you are well known member and I am new and out of respect for this forum. But do me a favor and no longer reply to any of my posts going further in the future. All you have to do is provide your opinion along with some data that I could have missed and I would be glad to look at it. I came here to learn and expand my knowledge, not be ridiculed. Nice chatting with you anyway.

First off, I would like to apologize for coming across as harsh to you. That was not my intention. I thought I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I implied that you did not understand the research. The comment you made that I was referring to was this:

@TbyZ[/USER] He is correct in everything he is saying, basically @gcarroll the ATS allows hair algae to grow, which grows a lot faster than chaeto does, which is why an ATS can kill off the macro in your refugium. ATS allows for faster nutrient export, which will allow bacteria to feed on phosphates, and other organic matter, which in turn fosters the growth of copepods. The beauty of this system is the speed of nutrient export and as a result is the very fast growth of copepods.

I was not alone in questioning this comment as @Randy Holmes-Farley made this comment about it as well.

Can you clarify what you mean by bacteria feeding on phosphate and how an ATS encourages that?

The algae on an ATS consume phosphate, reducing it, and I'm not sure how bacteria get involved in the discussion.

Not sure why you didn't respond to this question. Had you, we might be debating this issue instead because both algae and bacteria uptake phosphate and nitrate and can do this completely independent of one another.

Also I was not willing to read 9 pages is not what I stated. Those were scientific research links (9 separate studied, not pages) and as you later stated, none pertained to the info you were stating, so in that case I am glad I didn't waste my time.

 

[Picassoclown]

First off, I would like to apologize for coming across as harsh to you. That was not my intention. I thought I was giving you the benefit of the doubt when I implied that you did not understand the research. The comment you made that I was referring to was this: I was not alone in questioning this comment as @Randy Holmes-Farley made this comment about it as well.
Not sure why you didn't respond to this question. Had you, we might be debating this issue instead because both algae and bacteria uptake phosphate and nitrate and can do this completely independent of one another.

Also I was not willing to read 9 pages is not what I stated. Those were scientific research links (9 separate studied, not pages) and as you later stated, none pertained to the info you were stating, so in that case I am glad I didn't waste my time.

My apologies on not responding sooner. I had another thread going on in the DIY section and I was dealing with thunderstorms at work (I'm a meteorologist). I have no clue why in the world I typed bacteria I meant to type hair algae will consume the waste...and then foster pod growth. Today I am actually going to message BRS and see if they can do an experiment on this and see which grows more pods ATS or reactor/refugium. I think that would be an awesome YouTube video and interesting little study!

I also appreciate you apologizing. I know some topics can be a bit heated in this hobby, but let's keep it moving. It's all good @gcarroll !

 

[gcarroll]

Today I am actually going to message BRS and see if they can do an experiment on this and see which grows more pods ATS or reactor/refugium. I think that would be an awesome YouTube video and interesting little study!@gcarroll !

Great minds think alike! You send that message. I'll see Ryan a little later today and mention the same.

 

[atoll]

Great minds think alike! You send that message. I'll see Ryan a little later today and mention the same.

A good sized cheato reactor will grow more pods for sure as there is much more surface area for them to colonise and grow. In comparison, an ATS screen is minute but much more efficient in reducing nutrients.

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

My 2c about the copepod discussion:

It would seem to make logical sense to me that a chaeto fuge would have the ability to harbor a large pod population in a place where they could live and remain. Adding LR gives them a permanent harbor for safety. What I'm not sure about is the reproduction rate, i.e. the microscopic baby copepods, etc

On a scrubber, I know that they live and thrive as well, because I see them in the drain-off water (in the pan where I place the unharvested screen) and usually there are several 1cm+ ones in there. They don't seem to be affected negatively by the concentrated water flow, but I'm pretty sure they are getting spit out on a regular basis because I have a bunch of Anthias that hang out at the scrubber outlet allllll day long. It's been said before that a scrubber can produce "millions" of baby copepods, but I'm pretty sure there's no study that directly shows that.

Great discussion by the way and I'm happy to see that what appeared to be some escalating tension quickly dissolved.

 

[atoll]

My 2c about the copepod discussion:

It would seem to make logical sense to me that a chaeto fuge would have the ability to harbor a large pod population in a place where they could live and remain. Adding LR gives them a permanent harbor for safety. What I'm not sure about is the reproduction rate, i.e. the microscopic baby copepods, etc

On a scrubber, I know that they live and thrive as well, because I see them in the drain-off water (in the pan where I place the unharvested screen) and usually there are several 1cm+ ones in there. They don't seem to be affected negatively by the concentrated water flow, but I'm pretty sure they are getting spit out on a regular basis because I have a bunch of Anthias that hang out at the scrubber outlet allllll day long. It's been said before that a scrubber can produce "millions" of baby copepods, but I'm pretty sure there's no study that directly shows that.

Great discussion by the way and I'm happy to see that what appeared to be some escalating tension quickly dissolved.

People will always have their favourite ways of doing things and cosset and defend them no matter what. I have tried many ways in my 36 years reefkeeping (never tried multiple dosing however like Triton however) and in the short time, I have used ATS's (about 3 years) I have found ATS the best for me personally. What I struggle to understand is people who have never tried a method attacking ATS's and making sweeping unsubstantiated and downright wrong statements about them.

I can't tell you very much about the likes of Triton, sure I have an understanding of the methodology etc but I wouldn't put it down as a method as I know quite well it works for many, I also know those who have, for one reason or another. failed with it. Some people have failed with ATS just as they have done with other methods ever since I have been in this hobby.

No method is perfect but for me so far an ATS is as good as it's ever got for me and I am sure those having great success with their chosen method are more than happy with and won't be discarding it anytime soon. When something fails there is always a good reason for it however often it's the user of the method rather than the method itself.

 

[LbulletM]

My AC110 has inadvertently turned into an ATS.... guess I should clean it.

Sometimes the turbo makes it up there and does it for me!

 

[pelphrey]

Santa Monica RAIN2 - Been online for a month and a half probably. Run 1 light 24/7 off my manifold now. It is slowly starting to grow in!

 

[atoll]

Santa Monica RAIN2 - Been online for a month and a half probably. Run 1 light 24/7 off my manifold now. It is slowly starting to grow in!

A month and a half, My that things is so slowwwwww at producing GHA etc. Why does the Rain 2 take so long to mature?

 

[pelphrey]

A month and a half, My that things is so slowwwwww at producing GHA etc. Why does the Rain 2 take so long to mature?

I don't feed very heavy and my nutrients are really low. I could probably benefit from turning on another light and running 2 of the 4.

 

[atoll]

I don't feed very heavy and my nutrients are really low. I could probably benefit from turning on another light and running 2 of the 4.

Your nutrients don't have to be low, My ATS was pulling out just as much algae at 2ppm NO3 as it was with 25ppm NO3. I would definitely up the lighting.
7 days growth with my Atlantis 2 since when the amount produced has increased significantly. On Wednesday I harvested 338 grammes of algae 7 days after my last harvest.



I harvested 338 grammes of algae 7 days after my last harvest. I seeded my screen and from the first week and almost immediately it took off.

 

[Cory]

Your nutrients don't have to be low, My ATS was pulling out just as much algae at 2ppm NO3 as it was with 25ppm NO3. I would definitely up the lighting.
7 days growth with my Atlantis 2 since when the amount produced has increased significantly. On Wednesday I harvested 338 grammes of algae 7 days after my last harvest.



I harvested 338 grammes of algae 7 days after my last harvest. I seeded my screen and from the first week and almost immediately it took off.

Thats such a beatiful algae would you sell me some?

 

[atoll]

Thats such a beatiful algae would you sell me some?

Of course I would, it's an amazing algae to grow, just one small problem..... I am in the UK

 

[Cory]

Yeah i wonder what it would cost

Of course I would, it's an amazing algae to grow, just one small problem..... I am in the UK

Yeah thats a lot for shipping like 80$. You got it from floydrturbo right? I messaged him too.

 

[atoll]

Yeah i wonder what it would cost


Yeah thats a lot for shipping like 80$. You got it from floydrturbo right? I messaged him too.

Nope, I got it via Algae Truf Scrubbers CI based in the UK where I bought my Atlantis ATS

 

[Cory]

Nope, I got it via Algae Truf Scrubbers CI based in the UK where I bought my Atlantis ATS

Dam lol. Thanks