OK so what is stopping you installing an Algae Turf Scrubber on your system?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It looks like a macroalgae that I collect locally in the ocean here. My tangs loved it.

 

[Cory]

It looks like a macroalgae that I collect locally in the ocean here. My tangs loved it.

Lucky you to live by the sea.
Probably couldn't grow cold water in warm water though?

 

[Picassoclown]

Hey @gcarroll I messaged BRS today about the little pod experiment, let's see what he says back. Do you actually know him personally? ;Wideyed How do I have a beer with him? Haha!

 

[bfliflet]

Why has this turned into a chaeto/fuge vs ATS debate (yet again)? Seriously, pod efficiency? This sounds like a congressional hearing. The OP asked why not an ATS? Chaeto/fuge should be a reasonable response -- leave it at that. It's purely a survey. He's baiting people into a debate. It's mildly entertaining but futile.

A similar analogy is comparing two-part vs kalkwasser vs calc reactors. IMHO, it's less about the technology and more about the person operating it. It also explains why some people swear for and against a technology. Some people like the micromanagement of Zeo. Others, might prefer less involved approaches. As my old friend Tim says, "find what works for you".

 

[gcarroll]

Hey @gcarroll I messaged BRS today about the little pod experiment, let's see what he says back. Do you actually know him personally? ;Wideyed How do I have a beer with him? Haha!

That's easy, just join us at any Reefapalooza. You never know who will pull up a chair! Take your pick, Ryan and Randy of BRS, Jake Adams of ReefBuilders, Julian Sprung, Joe Caparatta of unique corals, etc

 

[pelphrey]

 

[Dana Riddle]

I ran a commercial coral farm back in the '90's using ATS technology. They were capable of maintain low nutrients and the corals fared well for the most part. That's the up side. The down side: The scrubbers needed cleaning once a week and the scraped algae leaked a lot of, for want of a better term, organics into the systems. The protein skimmers would overflow for hours after these cleanings. I think I have some tests on this stuff (biochemical oxygen demand and water color to indicate the degree of yellowness imparted to the water.) The worst part was some of the algae growing on the scrubber pads (looked like the red alga Hypnea. The algae we grew were true turf algae and the pads were covered with various red, green, and brown types.) This red alga would attack some of the corals (Acropora mostly) and bore into the skeletons. It made some sort of toxin that dissolved coral tissues. I published this almost 20 years ago in FAMA and still have a copy. I'll take a photo of the pic in that article and post it when I get a chance. I'm a proponent of algae scrubbers if they use the right algae and are maintained correctly.

 

[TbyZ]

Nope, I got it via Algae Truf Scrubbers CI based in the UK where I bought my Atlantis ATS

Sorry if i missed part of this thread atoll; are you saying you seeded your new screen with algae supplied by the above company? If yes, how exactly did you go about seeding it?

 

[Turbo's Aquatics]

Thanks for chiming in @Dana Riddle!

 

[TbyZ]

I ran a commercial coral farm back in the '90's using ATS technology. They were capable of maintain low nutrients and the corals fared well for the most part. That's the up side. The down side: The scrubbers needed cleaning once a week and the scraped algae leaked a lot of, for want of a better term, organics into the systems. The protein skimmers would overflow for hours after these cleanings. I think I have some tests on this stuff (biochemical oxygen demand and water color to indicate the degree of yellowness imparted to the water.) The worst part was some of the algae growing on the scrubber pads (looked like the red alga Hypnea. The algae we grew were true turf algae and the pads were covered with various red, green, and brown types.) This red alga would attack some of the corals (Acropora mostly) and bore into the skeletons. It made some sort of toxin that dissolved coral tissues. I published this almost 20 years ago in FAMA and still have a copy. I'll take a photo of the pic in that article and post it when I get a chance. I'm a proponent of algae scrubbers if they use the right algae and are maintained correctly.

Obviously the scrubbers you were using 20 year ago were the horizontal type, rather than the now common downflow type. I'm guessing that the media (pads) the algae grew on were cleaned without being removed from the unit, rather than in the kitchen sink, as is now necessary & best practice. Your scrubbers also grew true turf algaes, as opposed to green filamentous hair algae grown on modern scrubbers.

Although i respect your findings of twenty years ago, do you really believe your old school scrubbers can be compared to a modern downflow design?

 

[Cory]

I ran a commercial coral farm back in the '90's using ATS technology. They were capable of maintain low nutrients and the corals fared well for the most part. That's the up side. The down side: The scrubbers needed cleaning once a week and the scraped algae leaked a lot of, for want of a better term, organics into the systems. The protein skimmers would overflow for hours after these cleanings. I think I have some tests on this stuff (biochemical oxygen demand and water color to indicate the degree of yellowness imparted to the water.) The worst part was some of the algae growing on the scrubber pads (looked like the red alga Hypnea. The algae we grew were true turf algae and the pads were covered with various red, green, and brown types.) This red alga would attack some of the corals (Acropora mostly) and bore into the skeletons. It made some sort of toxin that dissolved coral tissues. I published this almost 20 years ago in FAMA and still have a copy. I'll take a photo of the pic in that article and post it when I get a chance. I'm a proponent of algae scrubbers if they use the right algae and are maintained correctly.

Thats a bummer about the red algae toxin. The new waterfall ats style usually just grows hair algae. That seems to be all i can grow on mine, not even bubble algae. Ive seen spectrum changes change the type of algae from hair to cyano dominated.

My ats consistantly produces 0 po4 on hanna and 0 no3 on api. All red 660nm leds 1 w each. 2 blues.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Obviously the scrubbers you were using 20 year ago were the horizontal type, rather than the now common downflow type. I'm guessing that the media (pads) the algae grew on were cleaned without being removed from the unit, rather than in the kitchen sink, as is now necessary & best practice. Your scrubbers also grew true turf algaes, as opposed to green filamentous hair algae grown on modern scrubbers.

Although i respect your findings of twenty years ago, do you really believe your old school scrubbers can be compared to a modern downflow design?

The pads were removed and scrubbed in a large tub and rinsed before re-installing them. These were 1,600 gallon systems and we're talking about 3 square feet of true turf algae per dump bucket (~9 ft2 total. These were designed by Dr. Walter Adey of Smithsonian fame.) As far as comparisons of old v. new, I have no dog in this fight D) and couldn't comment unless I took a look at them in the lab. So, I'll take you at your word that the new iterations are indeed better!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Although i respect your findings of twenty years ago, do you really believe your old school scrubbers can be compared to a modern downflow design?

I think he's calling you old, Dana. lol

 

[Dana Riddle]

I think he's calling you old, Dana. lol

I prefer being called 'battled scarred by experience' to 'old.' Now why did I walk into this room? And where are my keys? LOL.

 

[Cory]

The thought just crossed my mind:

"Is an ats just a substitute for massive coral growth?"

"Could a tank full of coral consume the same no3/po4 as an ats?"

"Is an ats just a "crutch" until corals take over?"

 

[TbyZ]

I prefer being called 'battled scarred by experience' to 'old.' Now why did I walk into this room? And where are my keys? LOL.

I'm not calling you anything Dana. And I have enjoyed reading articles you have written, quoting your findings on several occasions.

All I was doing was, quite correctly, pointing out that Adley original design scrubbers are not comparable to what we use nowdays.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

FYI, I was just joking. lol

 

[TbyZ]

FYI, I was just joking. lol

Yes, I know that Randy; I just wanted to confirm to Dana I had no in t e n tion of being rude to him.

 

[Dana Riddle]

Yes, I know that Randy; I just wanted to confirm to Dana I had no in t e n tion of being rude to him.

No offense taken at all. Since my focus has been on lighting and water motion for the last 18 years while in Hawaii (not exactly a hotbed of reef aquarium innovations), it will take me a while to catch up on some of the newer advances. So, I appreciate everyone's input!

 

[atoll]

The thought just crossed my mind:

"Is an ats just a substitute for massive coral growth?"

Nope not IMO or IME I have a lot of coral and growth in my 100 gallon but my NO3 climbed up to 25ppm PO4 0.06ppm However I do feed quite a bit and have a lot of fish in there as well as coral

"Could a tank full of coral consume the same no3/po4 as an ats?"

Not IME. Also, an ATS is considerably smaller cubic inch to cubic inch and extremely efficient at reducing nutrients esp NO3.

"Is an ats just a "crutch" until corals take over?"

Again not IME no. However, you have to consider the whole from stocking levels, other forms of filtration employed and the amount you feed etc etc.