organism vs. mr.coral

surfn

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http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=864890

this has gotten to the point of just being commical.

i have a friend, who used to live up here, and who just recently moved out of town.

he also had an order from miguel last week, that was supposed to be delivered on friday (same as mr.coral).

basically, what happened, is DHL screwed up b/c they lost power in a major sorting facility hub. stuff sat there all weekend, and died.

my friends shipment, was a total loss (included armegedons, armor of gods, joker palys, an acro, and a brain).

according to my friend, miguel as of monday night, offered full store credit, no questions asked, or any other hassels going back and forth.

i realize that the bad blood at the center of this, is b/c two business people are going head to head. and i agree with points on both sides, but mr.coral has gotten way out of line. if i were a business, and treated like that by a customer, i doubt i would want to bend over backwards to please this customer. the fact that mr.coral verbally attacked miguel right off the bat, friday evening after the shipment hadn't been received, when miguel explicitly explained the fact that the shipment didnt make it was totally out of his control is explanation enough for that time being.

then i find it hillarious and hypocritical, that mr.coral states in his auctions to not be worried about corals sitting in the post office for a week, yet he blows up when his over night shipment didnt arrive on time.

but again, since mr.coral, aka "commic book guy from the simpsons", is using this as his legitimate, primary private business, i can see why he would get upset about stressed/dead zoas, as he cant frag them up and sell them immediately.

shoot, he should count his blessings that he didnt lose everything, as other people's shipments from miguel did.

i dont know, i'm kinda torn whether miguel should offer credit/refund....

any thoughts/opinions?
 

ecotoxlady

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This is a nasty situation from the standpoint of how Mr. Coral has dealt with it. He certainly should have handled things much more politely as there are issues such as shipping troubles that are out of the control of the shipper. That being said, if Miguel does have a refund policy set up for loss of corals from shipping with picture verification then unfortunately I think Miguel will need to honor that policy. I do feel bad for Miguel in this situation given that Mr. Coral is behaving this way but also feel that these policies are set-up for the security of the customer. It's just unfortunate in this case that the customer is behaving like a real ***. Does that make sense?
 
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surfn

surfn

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yeah, i totally agree. its esspecially hard to take sides in favor of the customer (as in most of our cases), when miguel has awesome stuff and we dont want to get blacklisted :lol:
 

mschriskim

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Just my 2cents.

Leagally no live coral shipping are allowed if you do not have a permit on both shipper and receiver.

I know this as I contacted Fedex few times for few shippment error that they made.

Not sure what kind of permit but you have to be a commercial and had to have a permit to ship live corals via Fedex, UPS, DSL or any other shipping method (This apply for a reciver as well so only commercial shipping between 2 bussiness with permits are allowed).

Yes, they do accept these boxes as these are big big $$$ for them but when it comes down for damaged live corals claim no shipping company will cover them even they made mistake only shipping cost will get refund. (Oh, one case is exception if the box is lost and the box is insured for $500 than you could get full $500 as it is lost than delayed but if the box is not insured

Due to this reason most seller state their site "If shipping carrier made mistake and shipmment got caused delay this is not covered as carrier is not covering insurance" Maybe little different ton of words but it is basically not covered by policy.

After this it is all up to seller or vendor's favor so if Mr. Coral talked to Migel nicely with respect privately he would have probably gotten his store credit as Migel is a nice guy to deal with but instread Mr. Coral attacted Migel (That's what it seems like) so Migel's protecting his bussiness now.
 
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jessiesgrrl

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When customers attack.. Today, on the Zoanthid Channel

Personally, between two commercial sellers it is bad taste to even have any of the consumers knowing it's going on, IMO. Makes them both look bad that they can't work it out... and doubly bad on the one who let the beans spill to us.

That having been said, I don't let anyone scream at me. There simply is no excuse for verbal abuse. And after you verbally abuse someone you shouldn't be surprised when they tell you to take a long walk off a short pier. I expect adults to behave like adults, period. Sometimes that means taking it in the shorts fiancially, but that's just life.

After reading this, I am glad I ordered from MarineFlora.com... even though I am sure Miguel is normally very nice to us rational adult types. However, I will never order from Mr.Coral, period. I wouldn't want to risk him blowing his top or acting in other juvenile ways.

This is just sad period, imo.
:(
Laurie
 

jessiesgrrl

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I just read Mr.Coral's feedback on Ebay. Worst feedback I have ever seen on a reefer, from lots and lots of people. What made it outrageous though was the replies he was making to the feedbacks- very scarily aggressive. Not a nice dude at all from the looks of it.

:(
Laurie
 

REEF2REEF

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WOW... can't believe the mods let that go that long....

My take on it...

Miguel's website did state that it would be shipped fedex priority overnight, I was shipped DHL. From what I read I don't believe the customer was notified this before shipping to make sure that it was OK. I would be very upset about this if I had problems with the shipping. I would expect a full cash refund (not store credit) for the corals that died. But I would be willing to wait a week and see if things pulled through or not. That would be fair IMO. Miguel IMO was liable since his website clearly said he was shipping fedex and not dhl. (No offense miguel and don't black list me please ;) )

That being said, I don't know that Miguel wasn't planning on refunding for the things that died. Seems pretty reasonable to want to wait a bit to see what dies and what makes it. I don't feel that MRCoral was very realistic wanting a full refund NOW and all that. I mean I've seen zoas that bad tht pulled through. I mean should Miguel just give up full refund just to see that in a month the zoas recovered and mrcoral chopshopped them on eBay. Just the fact that MRCORAL took it to an open forum like that without just handling it in private would have been enough for me to tell him forget it if I was Miguel. The minute he starting posting emails and whatnot on RC I would have told him the issue is resolved. That guy was acting like a complete jackhole. I've only bought from Miguel a few times, never had any issue and everything's been great BTW, but from what I've experienced with Miguel he seems to be a very honest and reliable vendor. Good communications, healthy stock, and nice guy. I think MRCORAL was taking a shot at Miguel trying to discredit him and give him some bad press.

So I guess my recap of my babbling above.

If MRCORAL would have waited a week to see what happened and if anything survived and just chilled out, handled it in private, and had not been a complete ***. Miguel should have, and for all we know very might have been considering it, offered upa refund since he advertised he was shipping with fedex and then did not, while it was not Miguels fault that the power went out. He didn't shipped with the people he said he would and things went south. Could the same thing happen with FedEx, sure, but that's not really the issue.

Since MRCORAL seemed to be an *** right from the getgo and started a bunch of drama I think Miguel did the right thing and quite frankly put up with WAY more than I would have, so I don't think he should get a refund.
 

organism

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that's it, you're all blacklisted! :D


to clear up a few points in this thread (yeah, it's old, I know), everyone that had an order get messed up that weekend got full credit except for mr coral. The amount of credit due to mr coral was $85, and the smallest amount I gave out for the 7 (!) orders that got messed up that weekend was $250, all the way up to $900, everyone else handled it with grace and respect, but I'm sure we've all been yelled at before, and would all react differently, some people choose to kiss the yeller's butt, and the rest choose the "long walk off a short pier approach". I tried both, but the butt kissing only made the yelling get louder, so there it went. So to sum up, over $3000 in credit went out that weekend, you'd have to really be a weenie to not get $85...


all of that said, mr coral was aware for 24 hours prior to shipping that all orders were now being shipped through dhl, both through email and through the tracking info provided by dhl, and had no problem with it until something went awry, at which point he started pointing to the faq and screaming "fedex" and "refund", while ignoring the two or three times that it says on there that we don't cover losses from shipping damage (which we do, just a cya thing). he wanted a refund, by the way, on friday, before the package had ever arrived.

after alllllll of that nonsense, I ate the bad press but mr coral ended up apologizing about a week later in a different thread, I look at some of mr corals chop shopped auctions and sure enough, there's some of the zoos that I sold him, that "didn't make it"! I have no idea why he wouldn't post in the thread that some polyps made it, possibly because he was busy chopping them off of the rocks prior to taking pictures and it would have made him seem unscrupulous, who knows, but there's my side of the issue.

I also know that I potentially lost a lot more than $85 of business from that thread, I knew that before it was even started, so if anything will tell you the level of pushing that it took for me to get to that point, where no matter how many thousands I lost this guy wasn't getting a penny from me, that fact alone should
 
Top Shelf Aquatics

REEF2REEF

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Yeah, I wouldn't have given the guy a dime after he started acting like a *******.

Pretty messed up IMO. So the shipping place has some problems. He gets the stuff late and your like, lets wait and see what makes it and then we can talk about compensation. (Perfectly reasonable and normal IMO) Mr Coral says, I want all my money back NOW. Not credit but CASH money. (Pretty unrealistic request IMO) Then Mr Coral goes and starts a thread on the bussiest reef website there is trashing your name and still demanding a full refund. Then after all of that the guy is on eBay selling polyps that made it.

Wow, I don't envy having to put up with that stuff Miguell. I think you handled the situation as best anyone could.
 

Stixbaraca

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I think you know where my loyalty is Miguel!!! You've done nothing but bend over backwards to satisfy myself and the rest of us in the Philly area and beyond!!!





P.S.
Did you hear I made the cover of the ThatFishPlace catalog this week with the pic I took of your micro I was babysitting!!!
 
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