Orphek or halide/t5 for sps tank?

[Jay Norris]

GHL Mitra LX with 6 identical smaller pucks means the led color ratio are not very flexible. You end up with too many reds and greens and not enough blues, violets, and UVs. For high PUR, it's not ideal. Plus with such bulky design, you're physical limited on how many you can add and arrange over a tank. Price wise, you can not beat 8 ReeFi Duo Extremes for $5200, much lower than $9000 estimate.

Hi, I am of the belief, you get what you pay for, and lighting is not something you want to skimp on.

OP, I think your initial selection of 4 x 250 wt MH with either a row of T5 or LED (for dawn/ dusk ) supplement would be a great choice. I've lit a 4ft long tank with a single 250 MH bulb before, so I don't think the 4 ft width is an issue for your tank. Really just a matter of reflector &/or bulb height to get the coverage you need. You have to factor in that multiple bulbs can really bump the light coverage on a larger tank ,as you'll get overlap from the other bulbs & reflectors. Cross braces will also dictate to a degree how many bulbs you might need. Sounds like an awesome build & best of luck.

Hi, I used M/H lights for many decades on all my systems including my current 600 gallon system. Even with the best reflectors you would need 8 of them, the same amount of the Mitra LX7206 lights I use now, and since I live in South Florida, the amount of heat in the fish room has been greatly reduced, thus I have a lot lower electric bill, due to the savings on the A/C not running nearly as much in the fish room. There is a decrease in the electric bill, switching from M/H to the Mitra’s, but the difference would take a very long time to see a savings. With the bulb replacement and the electrical savings, you should start seeing a savings in about 5 or so years. I went with LEDS this time around due to the ease of use, and the ease of changing the color spectrum, without changing the bulbs.

 

[Jay Norris]

Is this a joke?
You know the halides are way better than any LEDs for what you want.
LOL!
You can cover the whole tank with those expensive Christmas lights and still your halides will win IMHO.
If you choose the LEDs make sure you get lots of heaters. ;Wideyed
Good luck.

Hi,If you live in a cold climate you are correct, but if you live in very warm climate like I do, you will need a big chiller if you use M/H, thus a high cost to the electric bill.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Hi, I used M/H lights for many decades on all my systems including my current 600 gallon system. Even with the best reflectors you would need 8 of them,

I am willing to bet that I will get great par with 3 marijuana grow reflectors with 400 radiums and a pair of T5's running the length of the front and back.
The sunlight supply blockbuster reflectors cast a VERY even light pattern in a 4x4 pattern. I am just concerned about the amount of power that a 400 watt has at that distribution. I wish they made a 600 watt radium.

 

[jda]

So that begs a question.. which myth will die first? LED's cast shade or halides are too hot?

The thing is that neither of these are myths. They are solvable problems that either side uses as excuses in this "if you are not 100% with me, you are the enemy" society that we live in today. Both CAN be problems, but they do not have to be.

Most people who solved the problems of MH heat had a plan in the beginning or did not live in Miami or in the Mojave. People who do not see LEDs having shadowing issues do not use low numbers puck-based units. The people who get it also realize that a Kessil and a Atlantik V4 are not going to have the same issues with spread, where as a hobbyists with a more simpleton approach, or lack of experience, will not be able to know what the differences are.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

I would argue that simpleton is the new average. LOL

Scary thing, there is plenty of proof that this is becoming the case.

 

[A. grandis]

Hi, I am of the belief, you get what you pay for, and lighting is not something you want to skimp on.

Hi, I used M/H lights for many decades on all my systems including my current 600 gallon system. Even with the best reflectors you would need 8 of them, the same amount of the Mitra LX7206 lights I use now, and since I live in South Florida, the amount of heat in the fish room has been greatly reduced, thus I have a lot lower electric bill, due to the savings on the A/C not running nearly as much in the fish room. There is a decrease in the electric bill, switching from M/H to the Mitra’s, but the difference would take a very long time to see a savings. With the bulb replacement and the electrical savings, you should start seeing a savings in about 5 or so years. I went with LEDS this time around due to the ease of use, and the ease of changing the color spectrum, without changing the bulbs.

In 5 years you will need to change your LEDs. They degrade.

 

[A. grandis]

Hi,If you live in a cold climate you are correct, but if you live in very warm climate like I do, you will need a big chiller if you use M/H, thus a high cost to the electric bill.

If you live in a warm climate you will need a chiller regardless of the light you choose. A fan between the halide fixtures and water surface will cut down the heat big time.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

You know what.. I'm going to just make my tank a freshwater fowler with plastic plants....

So now that I effectively freed up about $9k in hardware... maybe I will go rent a super car in vegas, then fly to the marshal islands for a week of liveaboard diving, then come home and buy a new OLED TV.

 

[A. grandis]

That's because most use poor cooling solutions. ReeFi Duo Extreme can maintain below 75C at led diodes junction at full power of 216W because there are over 9 sq-ft of cooling fan surface area. That's more than 10x more cooling capacity than any competitors.

Well, independent of cooling systems the LEDs do degrade. No bulb is eternal. 5 years is already a long time for a diode to last. They will change significantly and will need to be replaced to keep it running as they were. I would say that 3 years for LEDs would already be a long time...
We could use halides for 2 years and T5s for 18 months.
Optimal for halides is about a year and T5s 10 months MHO.
I change T5s and halides every 12 months.

 

[danlu_gt]

Well, independent of cooling systems the LEDs do degrade. No bulb is eternal. 5 years is already a long time for a diode to last. They will change significantly and will need to be replaced to keep it running as they were. I would say that 3 years for LEDs would already be a long time...
We could use halides for 2 years and T5s for 18 months.
Optimal for halides is about a year and T5s 10 months MHO.
I change T5s and halides every 12 months.

That's just not true. LED fabrication is very similar to microprocessor fabrication. From my years at Intel, there are many reasons for IC to degrade and are due to heat and over current assuming not a major fabrication defect. If interested, I can dig up some IEEE papers (water down version than was presented at Intel internal conference). If the LED are operated within it's thermal and current limit, it can easily last over 5 years with less than 10% degraded effectiveness.

 

[A. grandis]

That's just not true. LED fabrication is very similar to microprocessor fabrication. From my years at Intel, there are many reasons for IC to degrade and are due to heat and over current assuming not a major fabrication defect. If interested, I can dig up some IEEE papers (water down version than was presented at Intel internal conference). If the LED are operated within it's thermal and current limit, it can easily last over 5 years with less than 10% degraded effectiveness.

I don't lnow of any scientific studies about LEDs lasting that long and having the same performance they had when they were new. The fact they are still on and running doesn't mean they are still with the same spectrum, etc... Besides that, we have so many people starting to realize that many so called high grade LEDs burn out much faster than those companies claim. Not always, but sometimes.
Anyway, that is related to the excuse of changing bulbs... I don't really care about my bulbs to be changed and every time I change bulbs I can try a different one and love the results regardless.
People that use LEDs, and really like the results, will be happy changing their fixtures to continue having those results, if they need to.
The bottom line is always about the results.

 

[Bpb]

Very true. That is why I can not afford 5 levels of distribution and each level get 20%-25% margin (factory -> wholesale distributor -> wholesale distribution for retailers -> retailers -> consumers).

Led vs other lighting arguments aside...I really appreciate that business model.
Multi level distribution and retailer markups are the entire reason I avoid a large sector of products available to the hobby.

 

[jda]

Who cares about what can happen... the truth is that nearly nobody keeps their techy gear that long... they want the upgrades, new form factor, etc. ...and the manufacturers know that upgrades and repeat business is the only way to survive, so they have removed most upgrade packages and ability to fix stuff for future sales. Arguing about what CAN happen is a fools errand in this hobby.

 

[Will Wohlers]

I know of a ****** mh/vho setup that would kill it on your system...... wink wink....@vetteguy53081..... it's on the marketplace here for ridiculously cheap and is shipping included. I want it bad but wife thinks it'll be overkill on the prop tank I'm setting up. Would really love someone to grab this light and post progress shots of the tank with this in action. I want to see what it's fully capable of.

Ps I have absolutely zero affiliation with vetteguy53081 just in love with the light and he's literally giving it away.

 

[Jay Norris]

I am willing to bet that I will get great par with 3 marijuana grow reflectors with 400 radiums and a pair of T5's running the length of the front and back.
The sunlight supply blockbuster reflectors cast a VERY even light pattern in a 4x4 pattern. I am just concerned about the amount of power that a 400 watt has at that distribution. I wish they made a 600 watt radium.

Why not use 1000 watt bulbs?

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Dunno.. I will give one a try

 

[mtraylor]

So that begs a question.. which myth will die first? LED's cast shade or halides are too hot?

So what is your decision?

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Well there is simply no reason for me to go to LEDs. None. Not spread, not par, and certainly not cost. I realize some people like to tune their lights and have sunset mode or whatver but i have a pair of 6' blue xho for that. I really like the orphek design but didnt realize thwir coverage was going to be so narrow for that amount of cash.

 

[Bpb]

Well there is simply no reason for me to go to LEDs. None. Not spread, not par, and certainly not cost. I realize some people like to tune their lights and have sunset mode or whatver but i have a pair of 6' blue xho for that. I really like the orphek design but didnt realize thwir coverage was going to be so narrow for that amount of cash.

Truthfully, people don’t switch to leds for any of the above reasons. Those are excuses people give to try and justify the practicality side of it to themselves. People switch because they think leds are cool. It’s the allure of the cool toy. I don’t mean it derogatory. Most hobbies become gear collections to a point. It’s just the culture. Very few people truly believe the “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” philosophy at a fundamental level.

There will be a literal handful of people among tens of thousands that actually have extreme scenarios that drive them to switch for truly practical purposes, and interest in a new toy wasn’t part of it.

 

[pdxmonkeyboy]

Amen brother.