Orphek or halide/t5 for sps tank?
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blstravler
2500 Club Member
I’m getting back into this hobby after 10 or so years away. My last tank had 3 400w MH flanked by two VHO on each side. 220 gal ll SPS tank and my coral grew like fire. This time I went with 3 high end LED fixtures. After 4 months I haven’t been impressed - I added T5 hybrid fixture and saw vast improvement- that’s when it hit me. Everything I used in the last that’s now old school - worked really well. I’m now going back to what I used to do - anyone need some LED’s? Also I think the same can be said for CaRx’s people act like you live in the Stone Age for using one - but I don’t have to worry about using 6 different doser’s to deliver what I get from my CaRx and the cost is much lower.
See this is the sort of thing I personally find annoying..be it fw, sw, or home decor..
(disclaimer for jda and NOTE : not telling anyone WHAT they need only how to think about it)
You had 1200 Watts of 90L/Watt lights over your tank plus what ever size VHO's you were running..
Replaced w/ 3 high end LEDs w/ a ??? wattage output....and it wasn't the same..
So what were the LEDS?
I'll guess 570 Watts of LED's..
Was your PAR the same as the prev. setup?
how about PUR? (I'm not a big fan of this metric but others are)
THEN you add MORE (going hybrid) light and things get better..
Gee how surprising....There are probably another 1/2 doz things but lets ignore that for a moment.
Usually when I see things like this I think it's because people get annoyed by what they spent.
I DO understand that..
Expectations on spending ones hard earned cash is normal..
BTW: WPG apparently is still valid..
6:40..
Get my drift? Apples to apples..
Nothing WRONG w/ old school. NOT the point.
MH's work
Hybrids work ect. ect.
Reefcowboy
Well-Known Member
I run the same, but with a 48” spectra with Reefbrites on the outsides of the unit over a 150 gsl tank. Like you, my fixture replaces a heater many months of the year. Couldnt be happier with sps growth and color.
blstravler
2500 Club Member
See this is the sort of thing I personally find annoying..be it fw, sw, or home decor..
(disclaimer for jda and NOTE : not telling anyone WHAT they need only how to think about it)
You had 1200 Watts of 90L/Watt lights over your tank plus what ever size VHO's you were running..
Replaced w/ 3 high end LEDs w/ a ??? wattage output....and it wasn't the same..
So what were the LEDS?
I'll guess 570 Watts of LED's..
Was your PAR the same as the prev. setup?
how about PUR? (I'm not a big fan of this metric but others are)
THEN you add MORE (going hybrid) light and things get better..
Gee how surprising....There are probably another 1/2 doz things but lets ignore that for a moment.
Usually when I see things like this I think it's because people get annoyed by what they spent.
I DO understand that..
Expectations on spending ones hard earned cash is normal..
BTW: WPG apparently is still valid..
6:40..
Get my drift? Apples to apples..
Nothing WRONG w/ old school. NOT the point.
MH's work
Hybrids work ect. ect.
No the point is people proclaim LED is the absolute and it’s not. Nothing is. Nor is the PAR measurement itself. It’s not about money - it’s about the absolute and how this hobby has changed. That is my lesson. Lighting is going in a circle back to what it was - look at the new hydra’s and when Tullio’s new light comes out (saw it two days ago) you will understand more of what I mean by that. I believe the puck style LED’s will become a memory.
Only ones "I" see proclaiming anything "absolute" are MH's and their magic spectrum..
Oddly even those now "need" supplemental lighting to be er... "complete"..
Thus the MH/t5 or LED/t5..................
Have no love for "puck style" LED's...unless really large pucks..
From "delivery" standpoint, Phillips Coral care and Orphek Atlantik are probably the physically best design.
There are others but either unnaturally expensive or just uncommon.
As to growth or $/mm..
or even spectrum, I'll defer to others..Designing a blanket of light isn't exactly rocket science..
Hey is this one of his?
Designed one like that for FW year ago..Sorry only on paper..was needlessly complicated for the lower needs of "just plants".
Not the spectrum btw..
I designed this "puck" for a thought project for emulating 6500K MH's..
Nothing but pure white and "violet"..Green part of the curve is the MH's main advantage over "just white" LED's
Gets better w/ the added viosys 420nm diodes..
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OP
OP
How did i just KNOW that this would turn into a ticking macth? Just get over it already OREO. I mean really, WHAT IS YOUR POINT? You really like LEDs.. ok. Great..news flash.. I think they have merit as well.
That is why I started a thread....to get some opinions on going with the orpheks or halides and t5 for my new tank...
I mean, seriosly dude, why are you so offended by someone elses light. Preference? As soon as some says halides rock , you have to jump online and make some attempt at convincing those that really like them that they are missing some point. Or that it wasnt a fair comparison.
But anyways, we have established that real reefers that grow coral go with halides. People that want a disco ball tank after watching finding nemo buy LEDs.
That is why I started a thread....to get some opinions on going with the orpheks or halides and t5 for my new tank...
I mean, seriosly dude, why are you so offended by someone elses light. Preference? As soon as some says halides rock , you have to jump online and make some attempt at convincing those that really like them that they are missing some point. Or that it wasnt a fair comparison.
But anyways, we have established that real reefers that grow coral go with halides. People that want a disco ball tank after watching finding nemo buy LEDs.
I'm not offended at all.. Think you are too sensitive ..
Seems like you are the errr... biased one, not me..
So one can ONLY be a "real" reefer if they use MH's..
NOW THAT is funny..You're losing hearts and minds here..can you be any more prejudiced?
and you think "I'm" the problem
Seems like you are the errr... biased one, not me..
So one can ONLY be a "real" reefer if they use MH's..
NOW THAT is funny..You're losing hearts and minds here..can you be any more prejudiced?
and you think "I'm" the problem
OP
OP
Well we one thing we do know, you have zero sense of humor.
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A. grandis
2500 Club Member
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Proof of the incapacity of LEDs to supply ALL the QUALITIES and ASPECTS of metal halides/HOT5s for any reef system in our homes in order to produce an OPTIMAL environment for organisms dependent on light, representing shallow water environments, is the wave of so called "hybrids" (LED/T5s) happening right now. Some people are waking up! I've been saying since 2012 that LEDs shouldn't be the primary source of light for many reasons. They bring then the HOT5s now to try to sustain their systems a little better, but still want to justify their LED purchases keeping them with the T5s. If they knew how precious the space over their tank is they wouldn't waste it with LEDs at all. Not to mention the initial cost!
So many LED fixtures tried through all the past years! So many people not fully enjoying the hobby in the name of the so called "technology" which in reality is purely a term of business strategy. So many excuses and myths invented to justify costs. By the way technology exists in any type of artificial light system for our tanks. They are just different technologies. The word "technology" became almost a synonymous of "LED advantages" (very abstract term IMHO) in the hobby when referring to light.
The relativism in discussions about results is only true because the results of different types of light are visibly noticeable and if they say they "like" the results from their LEDs, whatever those results are, who are we to argue with their PERSONAL OPINION? Let it be! Many times they don't really like those results (only if they know better!!!) but that is still the ultimate excuse to justify their LED purchases.
Even those that are suppose to be the "gurus" of the hobby embraced the LEDs (either for free or a discount, if that's the case(?) nobody seems to really know how many of those really did!!) and then all the newbies just think that's the best thing because so and so got them on the video... or that store is the "best" and uses LEDs. Others sites are sponsored by LED companies and therefore basically and morally obligated to spread their preach. I welcome all of you to do a search and find out for yourselves.
Online advertise all over the place preach the "new better LEDs" all the time, changing and keeping the wagon running. It's what they do best: business. Not flaming them for that, but exposing the facts here. They just do what they're suppose to do: sell their old or new version! Sometimes at all costs and manipulating their propaganda using terms like "lab" to impose a strong "scientific" point and get their juice flowing with audacity, comparing their LED pucks to halides. What a joke!!! Nice clean Apple like PDFs!! People gotta be blind to buy that idea, or they don't know better. That alone shows bad character and the appeal to sell to get the million$ while they can. They use their unfair comparison to prove their point against the better light sources which are halides and T5s, manipulating distances of the fixtures and taking good pictures. Even when they produce fixtures with more diodes per surface area, to try to emit a blanket of light, it is still basically impossible to substiture 1 halide bulb!
I've been thinking why don't serious and gifted authors from the past never came to write against that type of dirty game. It's all about the wagon! They are afraid of being heavily criticized by the LED crowd and companies. Tullio Dell Aquila was the only one that had the guts to place some facts on the table about the subject (see video bellow). If you have any doubts about his preferences please call him and he will tell you! That other video of him was a more watered way to say also some facts. The meat of the subject is in the video down below!
Bottom line is that little by little HOT5 and halide systems are coming back and so many people are coming here in the forum to testify. This is like coming back to the essences of our hobby. People are getting tired of it! Results don't lie!
Why don't we see so many threads about T5s? What about halides? Is that because there are only few of them being used? I don't think so. Most likely because when they set them up they can forget about it and go to another forum to discuss other issues like chemistry, etc... halides and T5s will never let us down. Simple, efficient, highly effective in terms of qualities offered, and they collect all the wonderful properties of artificial light to make the best system for those who want to resemble the natural environment at home. There is no other than halide for growth and color! No LED in the whole world will ever be able to substitute halides 100%. They would melt! That is a fact!
Let's continue to bring back the essence of the hobby with the focus on offering the optimal conditions we can to the organisms we keep!
With all the respect to the people who still choose LEDs for now... we also expect respect in threads like this where we choose halides/T5s. Isn't it all relative in terms of taste? Then please respect our preferences!
Here is that video:
So many LED fixtures tried through all the past years! So many people not fully enjoying the hobby in the name of the so called "technology" which in reality is purely a term of business strategy. So many excuses and myths invented to justify costs. By the way technology exists in any type of artificial light system for our tanks. They are just different technologies. The word "technology" became almost a synonymous of "LED advantages" (very abstract term IMHO) in the hobby when referring to light.
The relativism in discussions about results is only true because the results of different types of light are visibly noticeable and if they say they "like" the results from their LEDs, whatever those results are, who are we to argue with their PERSONAL OPINION? Let it be! Many times they don't really like those results (only if they know better!!!) but that is still the ultimate excuse to justify their LED purchases.
Even those that are suppose to be the "gurus" of the hobby embraced the LEDs (either for free or a discount, if that's the case(?) nobody seems to really know how many of those really did!!) and then all the newbies just think that's the best thing because so and so got them on the video... or that store is the "best" and uses LEDs. Others sites are sponsored by LED companies and therefore basically and morally obligated to spread their preach. I welcome all of you to do a search and find out for yourselves.
Online advertise all over the place preach the "new better LEDs" all the time, changing and keeping the wagon running. It's what they do best: business. Not flaming them for that, but exposing the facts here. They just do what they're suppose to do: sell their old or new version! Sometimes at all costs and manipulating their propaganda using terms like "lab" to impose a strong "scientific" point and get their juice flowing with audacity, comparing their LED pucks to halides. What a joke!!! Nice clean Apple like PDFs!! People gotta be blind to buy that idea, or they don't know better. That alone shows bad character and the appeal to sell to get the million$ while they can. They use their unfair comparison to prove their point against the better light sources which are halides and T5s, manipulating distances of the fixtures and taking good pictures. Even when they produce fixtures with more diodes per surface area, to try to emit a blanket of light, it is still basically impossible to substiture 1 halide bulb!
I've been thinking why don't serious and gifted authors from the past never came to write against that type of dirty game. It's all about the wagon! They are afraid of being heavily criticized by the LED crowd and companies. Tullio Dell Aquila was the only one that had the guts to place some facts on the table about the subject (see video bellow). If you have any doubts about his preferences please call him and he will tell you! That other video of him was a more watered way to say also some facts. The meat of the subject is in the video down below!
Bottom line is that little by little HOT5 and halide systems are coming back and so many people are coming here in the forum to testify. This is like coming back to the essences of our hobby. People are getting tired of it! Results don't lie!
Why don't we see so many threads about T5s? What about halides? Is that because there are only few of them being used? I don't think so. Most likely because when they set them up they can forget about it and go to another forum to discuss other issues like chemistry, etc... halides and T5s will never let us down. Simple, efficient, highly effective in terms of qualities offered, and they collect all the wonderful properties of artificial light to make the best system for those who want to resemble the natural environment at home. There is no other than halide for growth and color! No LED in the whole world will ever be able to substitute halides 100%. They would melt! That is a fact!
Let's continue to bring back the essence of the hobby with the focus on offering the optimal conditions we can to the organisms we keep!
With all the respect to the people who still choose LEDs for now... we also expect respect in threads like this where we choose halides/T5s. Isn't it all relative in terms of taste? Then please respect our preferences!
Here is that video:
Last edited:
blstravler
2500 Club Member
Only ones "I" see proclaiming anything "absolute" are MH's and their magic spectrum..
Oddly even those now "need" supplemental lighting to be er... "complete"..
Thus the MH/t5 or LED/t5..................
Have no love for "puck style" LED's...unless really large pucks..
From "delivery" standpoint, Phillips Coral care and Orphek Atlantik are probably the physically best design.
There are others but either unnaturally expensive or just uncommon.
As to growth or $/mm..
Designing a blanket of light isn't exactly rocket science..
Hey is this one of his?
Designed one like that for FW year ago..Sorry only on paper..was needlessly complicated for the lower needs of "just plants".
Not the spectrum btw..
I designed this "puck" for a thought project for emulating 6500K MH's..
Nothing but pure white and "violet"..Green part of the curve is the MH's main advantage over "just white" LED's
Gets better w/ the added viosys 420nm diodes..
It’s not that light - very different - but very cool. Waiting to see spectrum and PAR details. If I’m allowed to share pics I will.
Jay Norris
Active Member
Lights are only a small part of the equation, there is so much more to the equation, for a healthy Reef tank.
A. grandis
2500 Club Member
- Joined
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Light makes 60%+ for the reef tank to thrive in terms of those light loving organisms.
You can play with organics, nutrients, carbon, flow and whatever you want.
When you have optimal light you will be more than half way in advance.
After light comes the quality of water used, temperature and salinity.
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OP
OP
I think that all other things being equal that light is the major component to success. They are after all, photosynthetic organisms.
Where are you getting that LEDs don't have spread or par? If you were talking about kessils and their single point of light I could understand (harsh shadowing) but Orphek has a lot of spread. Also LED/t5 is always an option.
And a lot of LED options have ridiculously high par (overkill in many cases)
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It's all important...and it's all complicated...
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reefs.com
Figure 1: Light response of coral zooxanthellae (a) photosynthetic...
Download scientific diagram | Light response of coral zooxanthellae (a) photosynthetic oxygen production (PO2) and (b) quantum yield of oxygen production (φ). Data are taken from Dubinsky et al. (1984) for sun (Δ) and shade (∘) colonies of Stylophora pistillata and Shick et al. (1995) for...
www.researchgate.net
OP
OP
I am comparing orpheks VS halides.
I am getting the lack of spread and par from the manufacturers website, brs videos, and peoples personal experience.
The orpheks.. or any other LED do not compare to the halides in terms of spread or par.
At any rate, my decision has been made. 3 x 400 and 8 4' t5's.
I am getting the lack of spread and par from the manufacturers website, brs videos, and peoples personal experience.
The orpheks.. or any other LED do not compare to the halides in terms of spread or par.
At any rate, my decision has been made. 3 x 400 and 8 4' t5's.
Last edited by a moderator:
I used to run 3 400 watt radiums and 320 watts of svho t12 on my 255. Great combo and loved the look. Dont miss it though. Enjoying my leds for last 9 years.
Its a good choice. Post some pics when ready and do build thread.
Happy reefing
Its a good choice. Post some pics when ready and do build thread.
Happy reefing
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