Overflow Noise/Water Level/Stand Pipe Tuning - Insights Appreciated

[GotCrabs]

Good morning. I've tried to gain insight from other posts but I think I'm still missing some key insights to solve my problem.

Bottomline: Noisy overflow and noisy sucking sounds from my tuning holes (see below). Inability to suitably tune the water height in the side sump to make the noise minimal.

Issue: The control I have is SUPER sensitive. I need a better solution.

System: Used 150G tank I purchased years ago with built in side sump. My actual sump is in the basement so I just need this to be quiet.

The pictures tell a better story than my words but here are a few comments...
1) I have several tiny tuning holes in the top of each stand pipe. I plug/unplug them (left side) to control the water height in the side sump. But they clog over time, and the control I have is super sensitive.
2) The water flows from the top of the sump to the bottom, then up the stand pipe and then down and out of the side sump and into the sump in the basement...via a long length of PVC.
3) The left stand pipe seems to have "all" the water flowing through it and into the basement sump. Right one does not have clogs.
4) I've noticed I can valve off the return pump in the basement a bit to control the side sump water height...but again...not reliable or stable.

Pictures are below. Your insights are appreciated.

 

[FullSend]

Can you go deeper into how the plumbing is configured? Mainly how many holes are drilled in the aquarium and how the side sump works. Are there two separate sections in the side sump?

It looks like you have 2 gravity feed, non siphon, stand pipes, one in each section of your side sump. If you have two holes drilled in the aquarium it would be possible to use a herbie style drain. This style would allow you to control the flow in the syphon using an external valve. Should be quieter and easier to control.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

You don't want to rely on those fine tuning holes since they are prone to clogging. I would go for a herbie system where you have a gate valve on the main pipe to maintain siphon, and then have just a trickle on the secondary pipe. It is useful to have an adjustable DC return pump to make large scale flow adjustments.

 

[GotCrabs]

Can you go deeper into how the plumbing is configured? Mainly how many holes are drilled in the aquarium and how the side sump works. Are there two separate sections in the side sump?

It looks like you have 2 gravity feed, non siphon, stand pipes, one in each section of your side sump. If you have two holes drilled in the aquarium it would be possible to use a herbie style drain. This style would allow you to control the flow in the syphon using an external valve. Should be quieter and easier to control.

Thanks.

The middle hose you see is the water input to the DT.

The bottom of each stand pipe is an output from the sump but they connect to one pipe just under the tank that then flows into the basement sump.

The two sides of the sump are open at the bottom, so they are essentially one sump.

 

[bigdrew]

This worked for my overflow pipe. I have a much simpler setup than you though.

Maggie Muffler - Most innovative Aquarium Silencer Ever Made

 

[GotCrabs]

Thanks.

The middle hose you see is the water input to the DT.

The bottom of each stand pipe is an output from the sump but they connect to one pipe just under the tank that then flows into the basement sump.

The two sides of the sump are open at the bottom, so they are essentially one sump.

It's probably worth noting: There's a detritus advantage to taking the water off the bottom of the side sump...unless someone has a better idea. I recently put a powerhead in the side sump to keep the detritus from settling. It has worked well.

 

[GotCrabs]

I did some research on the Herbie Siphon. Thanks.

I could still use some advice as my system has some unique features.

Siphon End Under Sump Water
I’m dumping my side sump into a large diameter PVC return line (larger than the two stand pipes combined). This is likely effectively dumping into air, not under the surface of the water in a sump with constant water level as prescribed for a herbie. Not sure what to make of this exactly but it sounds like it won’t create a siphon if this is true?

Shared Return Line
I’m not clear on whether the emergency stand pipe sharing the same return line with the siphon stand pipe is an issue. It seems like no issue so long as the return line has plenty of capacity, and it does. Thoughts?

Lastly, any recommendations on what steps to take?

Durso
Should I head in this direction?

Any comments on the long down pipe from the durso as in my configuration? Need for slits/holes and why?

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

I would still go for the herbie system. Pick the left stand pipe to be the main pipe (herbie continuous siphon) and put a gate valve on it, so that you can control the flow to maintain the siphon. The right stand pipe is your secondary pipe. The gate valve on the main should be adjusted so that only a trickle of water flows through the secondary pipe.

 

[GotCrabs]

I would still go for the herbie system. Pick the left stand pipe to be the main pipe (herbie continuous siphon) and put a gate valve on it, so that you can control the flow to maintain the siphon. The right stand pipe is your secondary pipe. The gate valve on the main should be adjusted so that only a trickle of water flows through the secondary pipe.

I want to head this way but my gut says it won't work better. A siphon is where gravity is pulling the water down, which creates a negative pressure, which forces the water above "down". (Hopefully I described that well.)

With mostly air below the newly installed valve, I don't think I'll get a siphon.

 

[sarcophytonIndy]

You should be OK. The slurping sound you hear is when the pipe on the left (the main pipe) begins sucking air. The gate valve on the main will allow you to adjust the flow to prevent it from sucking air.

 

[FullSend]

I did some research on the Herbie Siphon. Thanks.

I could still use some advice as my system has some unique features.

Siphon End Under Sump Water
I’m dumping my side sump into a large diameter PVC return line (larger than the two stand pipes combined). This is likely effectively dumping into air, not under the surface of the water in a sump with constant water level as prescribed for a herbie. Not sure what to make of this exactly but it sounds like it won’t create a siphon if this is true?

You should be able to create a syphon as long the outlet is lower than the surface of the water. This part should be silent as long as you keep air out. You could even keep your current "U" shape to pull water off of the bottom of your side sump. It will just be harder to start the siphon.

It could make a splashing sound when it dumps into the larger pipe though, but I don't see how you could minimize this with any design.

Shared Return Line
I’m not clear on whether the emergency stand pipe sharing the same return line with the siphon stand pipe is an issue. It seems like no issue so long as the return line has plenty of capacity, and it does. Thoughts?

If your single line becomes plugged, the water volume is in the return section of your sump will likely end up on your floor. But as I understand it this isn't any different from your current setup.

Lastly, any recommendations on what steps to take?

I'm also a fan of the herbie or bean animal designs. Once they are tuned I don't touch them for months.

 

[ridgeburyreefer]

Super Counterintuitive and unsure if this even applies to you bc I have a different setup, but I experienced the same thing, and was able to curb the slurp by slowing down my return pump w a valve, and also ensuring the water in the return chamber stays at a certain level.

 

[GotCrabs]

Super Counterintuitive and unsure if this even applies to you bc I have a different setup, but I experienced the same thing, and was able to curb the slurp by slowing down my return pump w a valve, and also ensuring the water in the return chamber stays at a certain level.

Thanks for the tip. I recently noticed this as well and I'm considering how it impacts.

I just ordered a small air control valve. I'm going to add it to my current configuration and see how it does. If I'm still not happy I'll leap into the Herbie and see if it "sucks"...I mean siphons.