Oxydator, UV Sterilizer, velvet question

[cbnspanky]

My tank is a 12 gallon long, filtration via Oase biomaster 250. Live rock, live sand, fish only for now. Ive been running a Söchting Oxydator since day one with 6% H2O2 and 1 catalyst. The tank has been running for 4 months.
First fish in was an oscellaris clown on day 3. 2 months later I added a tiny blue tang (plan to keep for a year and give to a friend with a 200 gallon), and six hermit crabs for cleanup. Everybody was happy until I added a royal gramma a month later.
A week later the RG and tang were covered in velvet. I know general consensus is to QT in a hospital tank, but I don’t have a set up and also I’m trying to figure out ways to strengthen display tanks so one day quarantine tanks aren’t necessary. I immediately upped the H2O2 to 12% and added an extra catalyst to the oxydator. I started dosing 2 ml of 3% H2O2 3 times a day, focusing on night times when the lights are out. I also put a cleaner shrimp in.
The cleaner shrimp did a massive job of cleaning the tang, but of course the velvet came back. For the last two weeks I’ve been in a cycle where the shrimp cleans the tang, tank keeps eating well, then of course the tang gets covered again.
The tang spends a lot of time around the oxydator, even resting there. It seems to do it’s job of providing an oxygen mask for him to breath easier. He eats great, but he can’t go on like this.
Here is my question. I’m looking for advice on what nano UV sterilizer to get? I know slow flow is key to kill free floating dinospores. Does anyone know a nano sized sterilizer with flow control slow enough for my 12 gallon tank?
Im very unhappy with my Oase canister (can’t keep it from constantly burping bubbles) and am going to set up a 5 gallon sump. So I could do a hang on back sterilizer, submersible or possibly one that would sit in a sump.
Anyone know a good nano sized UV sterilizer with slow enough flow to kill velvet and ich? Also any other advice is welcome.

 

[vetteguy53081]

My tank is a 12 gallon long, filtration via Oase biomaster 250. Live rock, live sand, fish only for now. Ive been running a Söchting Oxydator since day one with 6% H2O2 and 1 catalyst. The tank has been running for 4 months.
First fish in was an oscellaris clown on day 3. 2 months later I added a tiny blue tang (plan to keep for a year and give to a friend with a 200 gallon), and six hermit crabs for cleanup. Everybody was happy until I added a royal gramma a month later.
A week later the RG and tang were covered in velvet. I know general consensus is to QT in a hospital tank, but I don’t have a set up and also I’m trying to figure out ways to strengthen display tanks so one day quarantine tanks aren’t necessary. I immediately upped the H2O2 to 12% and added an extra catalyst to the oxydator. I started dosing 2 ml of 3% H2O2 3 times a day, focusing on night times when the lights are out. I also put a cleaner shrimp in.
The cleaner shrimp did a massive job of cleaning the tang, but of course the velvet came back. For the last two weeks I’ve been in a cycle where the shrimp cleans the tang, tank keeps eating well, then of course the tang gets covered again.
The tang spends a lot of time around the oxydator, even resting there. It seems to do it’s job of providing an oxygen mask for him to breath easier. He eats great, but he can’t go on like this.
Here is my question. I’m looking for advice on what nano UV sterilizer to get? I know slow flow is key to kill free floating dinospores. Does anyone know a nano sized sterilizer with flow control slow enough for my 12 gallon tank?
Im very unhappy with my Oase canister (can’t keep it from constantly burping bubbles) and am going to set up a 5 gallon sump. So I could do a hang on back sterilizer, submersible or possibly one that would sit in a sump.
Anyone know a good nano sized UV sterilizer with slow enough flow to kill velvet and ich? Also any other advice is welcome.

Velvet is a flagellate and cleaner shrimp is not going to pick them or pick them at the speed they produce. Canister is not ideal in this situation as you have to clean it frequently to rid of the dead cells in which this filter can hold them.
Peroxide is an oxidizer and will do nothing for this. Your recourse is to treat the right way with coppersafe.
What sets velvet apart from ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit (no api brand either). The tank the fish came from will have to be fishless (no fish) for 4-6 weeks to assure the velvet has died off without a host fish.
Quarantine tank or even a tub will be essential.

 

[cbnspanky]

Velvet is a flagellate and cleaner shrimp is not going to pick them or pick them at the speed they produce. Canister is not ideal in this situation as you have to clean it frequently to rid of the dead cells in which this filter can hold them.
Peroxide is an oxidizer and will do nothing for this. Your recourse is to treat the right way with coppersafe.
What sets velvet apart from ich is that at this point the fish have the appearance of being coated with what looks like a whitish or tan to golden colored, velvet-like film, thus the name Velvet Disease.
Remove fish from main tank and give them a FW dip or bath and then place them into a QT with aeration provided. Treat the fish in the QT with a copper-based medication. Although many over-the-counter remedies contain the general name as ich or ick treatments, carefully read the box to be sure it is specifically designed to target Oodinium. My choice is coppersafe at 2.25-2.5 therapuetic level at 80 degrees for a FULL 30 days monitored by a reliable copper test kit (no api brand either). The tank the fish came from will have to be fishless (no fish) for 4-6 weeks to assure the velvet has died off without a host fish.
Quarantine tank or even a tub will be essential.

Thanks for the response but this is what I’m trying:

Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)

www.reef2reef.com

@atoll @Humblefish

 

[Spare time]

Thanks for the response but this is what I’m trying:

Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)

www.reef2reef.com

@atoll @Humblefish

The fact is unless you bathe the fish in hydrogen peroxide everytime they get infected, its not going to work. Even then, it won't rid it from the tank. I see it as spraying Lysol into a room hoping it gets rid of a skin infection on someone standing in there. No sense in buying the fish for the tank if you can't take care of them (and that includes taking care of them when they are sick). There is some disconnect when owning fish that people are very willing to have their animals die for the sake of convenience). I am not a fan of playing around with things when its a life or death scenario for the fish. Just get a big bin or tub from home depot and make a QT. It doesn't need to be a tank or anything fancy. A UV won't stop velvet and honestly I think they are one of the biggest placebos in the hobby (in terms of effectiveness) outside of severe bacterial or phytoplankton blooms. I feel the same about hydrogen peroxide dosing (i.e. dosing it into the tank where it gets diluted so much that its practically useless unless you dosed enough to start damaging corals and inverts and what not).

 

[cbnspanky]

The fact is unless you bathe the fish in hydrogen peroxide everytime they get infected, its not going to work. Even then, it won't rid it from the tank. I see it as spraying Lysol into a room hoping it gets rid of a skin infection on someone standing in there. Just get a big bin or tub from home depot and make a QT. No sense in buying the fish for the tank if you can't take care of them (and that includes taking care of them when they are sick). I am not a fan of playing around with things when its a life or death scenario for the fish.

Thanks for your help, but I’ve been dosing for 3 weeks and the fish are responding. I’m asking people who are experienced in this. I love my tank but am also willing to try new things to further the hobby. What you suggest has been the norm for decades. I’m trying to learn from @atoll to see if an alternative exists. This hobby has been around too long for ich and velvet to still be a problem.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for your help, but I’ve been dosing for 3 weeks and the fish are responding. I’m asking people who are experienced in this. I love my tank but am also willing to try new things to further the hobby. What you suggest has been the norm for decades. I’m trying to learn from @atoll to see if an alternative exists. This hobby has been around too long for ich and velvet to still be a problem.
I

I would then suggest that you continue your discussion with @atoll in private - because here you will get different answers. This is not designed to be offensive or mean. I'm just saying - stop asking questions - when you don't want to hear the answers - if you want a natural approach to velvet - good luck - and if I was going to ask someone - it would be @Lasse or @atoll

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for your help, but I’ve been dosing for 3 weeks and the fish are responding. I’m asking people who are experienced in this. I love my tank but am also willing to try new things to further the hobby. What you suggest has been the norm for decades. I’m trying to learn from @atoll to see if an alternative exists. This hobby has been around too long for ich and velvet to still be a problem.

PS - actually you're using protocols from another site - and I would suggest you go there as well - to ask your questions as to why the solutions are not working. AFAIK - @Humblefish is not posting here.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks for the response but this is what I’m trying:

Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)

www.reef2reef.com

@atoll @Humblefish

Im very familiar with this and as a bath helps but there is insufficient studies to show it is a remedy why it is rarely used. Its your tank and keep in mind any disease is on you - Not the fish. I would not fool with experiments while you are in the process of experiencing fish loss. Do report how this works out though

 

[cbnspanky]

I would then suggest that you continue your discussion with @atoll in private - because here you will get different answers. This is not designed to be offensive or mean. I'm just saying - stop asking questions - when you don't want to hear the answers - if you want a natural approach to velvet - good luck - and if I was going to ask someone - it would be @Lasse or @atoll

I would think if someone saw a header with Oxydator and didn’t believe in H2O2 treatment they wouldn’t respond. No offense but sometimes people are just contrarian on purpose.

 

[cbnspanky]

Im very familiar with this and as a bath helps but there is insufficient studies to show it is a remedy why it is rarely used. Its your tank and keep in mind any disease is on you - Not the fish. I would not fool with experiments while you are in the process of experiencing fish loss. Do report how this works out though

Sometimes it’s trying and failing that gets us ahead. I’ll let you know if I have success. So far I’ve kept a heavily infested blue tang alive and eating for 3 weeks. He swims around, taking breaks to go and sit next to the oxydator.

 

[cbnspanky]

PS - actually you're using protocols from another site - and I would suggest you go there as well - to ask your questions as to why the solutions are not working. AFAIK - @Humblefish is not posting here.

The thread I posted was from reef2reef

Dosing with Peroxide for Marine Velvet

Also, those interested in utilizing H2O2 to manage (or even possibly eradicate) parasites in a DT should look into running an Oxydator. (Never thought I would see myself write that. :p)

www.reef2reef.com

 

[MnFish1]

I would think if someone saw a header with Oxydator and didn’t believe in H2O2 treatment they wouldn’t respond. No offense but sometimes people are just contrarian on purpose.

Fortunately - or unfortunately - @vetteguy53081 , myself, @Jay Hemdal, and others are in part responsible for the forum in which which you posted. So - whether you agree with what is said or not - apologetically, this is not the 'let's try an experiment' forum. The goal here is to educate people as to the protocols that we use. Of course new ideas are welcome - I would suggest, though that as others have already said - at least a couple of times - there is no evidence that this method works to treat velvet - To ignore the multiple times it's been tried - is a dis-service to the other people reading the thread for education. No one is trying to be contrarian (at least not me - as you implied). PS - You tagged Humblefish - which is why I mentioned 'other protocols'. I also tagged Atoll and LAsse who are well aware of oxydators and H2O2 protocols - for your benefit. Thanks for listening.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

My tank is a 12 gallon long, filtration via Oase biomaster 250. Live rock, live sand, fish only for now. Ive been running a Söchting Oxydator since day one with 6% H2O2 and 1 catalyst. The tank has been running for 4 months.
First fish in was an oscellaris clown on day 3. 2 months later I added a tiny blue tang (plan to keep for a year and give to a friend with a 200 gallon), and six hermit crabs for cleanup. Everybody was happy until I added a royal gramma a month later.
A week later the RG and tang were covered in velvet. I know general consensus is to QT in a hospital tank, but I don’t have a set up and also I’m trying to figure out ways to strengthen display tanks so one day quarantine tanks aren’t necessary. I immediately upped the H2O2 to 12% and added an extra catalyst to the oxydator. I started dosing 2 ml of 3% H2O2 3 times a day, focusing on night times when the lights are out. I also put a cleaner shrimp in.
The cleaner shrimp did a massive job of cleaning the tang, but of course the velvet came back. For the last two weeks I’ve been in a cycle where the shrimp cleans the tang, tank keeps eating well, then of course the tang gets covered again.
The tang spends a lot of time around the oxydator, even resting there. It seems to do it’s job of providing an oxygen mask for him to breath easier. He eats great, but he can’t go on like this.
Here is my question. I’m looking for advice on what nano UV sterilizer to get? I know slow flow is key to kill free floating dinospores. Does anyone know a nano sized sterilizer with flow control slow enough for my 12 gallon tank?
Im very unhappy with my Oase canister (can’t keep it from constantly burping bubbles) and am going to set up a 5 gallon sump. So I could do a hang on back sterilizer, submersible or possibly one that would sit in a sump.
Anyone know a good nano sized UV sterilizer with slow enough flow to kill velvet and ich? Also any other advice is welcome.

UV sterilizers really don’t work well at controlling active infections of velvet - the dinospores may not actually need to leave the fish and become exposed to the side stream UV.
Are you sure the fish have velvet, the symptoms don’t really match up well. If you can post a video I might be able to confirm the diagnosis for you.

Jay

 

[Lasse]

I have the same thoughts like Jay according to the roots of your problem. But never the less - the dosing of H2O2 is in the higher range, Which oxydator do you have and how often have you to refill it? (I´ll try yo calculate the amount of free H2O2 in your aquarium. hence production of free radicals) Because your problem is pulsating - but your treatment is consequent - I suspect that the cause of your problem can propagate somewhere else - there the oxygen radicals (that will be formed from the H2O2) not reach the patogen. This place could be the canister filter. I would take away the cannister and clean it very well. Replace the filter material with new. Let it be "off grid" for some time and see if gets better. When its "off grid" - be very careful with the feeding. Take the amount of food that you consider very little and feed the fish one tenth of that

A small warning with such high doses that you use. The breakdown of free H2O2 in the aquarium water is slower than normally has been thought - Observe your fish carefully. Fish normally withstand rather high doses of H2O2 because they have a production peroxide reductases (a group of enzymes that catalyse the breakdown of H2O2) but if the amount of non catalyzed H2O2 rise with time - the amount of free radicals released can be too high sooner or later.

When you handle free active radicals (that's the active component when you use H2O2 as a patogen killer) it could be wise to use food high in Thiamine because its a very potent anti radical agent

With some types of UV-C (low pressure mercury/amalgam tubes) a combination with peroxide is great. The UV-C will catalyze the release of the Peroxide extra O atom - hence speed up the forming of active oxygen radicals. Because manufactures seldom tell which type of tubes that they use - its difficult to know what you should buy. However - knowing that TMC normally use the right type of tubes - maybe the V2 Vecton 120 Nano Aquarium UV Steriliser can fit your demand. However - I have not tested it.

The idea that hydrogen peroxide is not active against fish parasites or that its not proven is false - just google "salmon lice peroxide"

I hope that this is information that will help you - however I can´t advise how you should treat this with other chemicals than peroxide because I have no experiences of it.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[MnFish1]

I have the same thoughts like Jay according to the roots of your problem. But never the less - the dosing of H2O2 is in the higher range, Which oxydator do you have and how often have you to refill it? (I´ll try yo calculate the amount of free H2O2 in your aquarium. hence production of free radicals) Because your problem is pulsating - but your treatment is consequent - I suspect that the cause of your problem can propagate somewhere else - there the oxygen radicals (that will be formed from the H2O2) not reach the patogen. This place could be the canister filter. I would take away the cannister and clean it very well. Replace the filter material with new. Let it be "off grid" for some time and see if gets better. When its "off grid" - be very careful with the feeding. Take the amount of food that you consider very little and feed the fish one tenth of that

A small warning with such high doses that you use. The breakdown of free H2O2 in the aquarium water is slower than normally has been thought - Observe your fish carefully. Fish normally withstand rather high doses of H2O2 because they have a production peroxide reductases (a group of enzymes that catalyse the breakdown of H2O2) but if the amount of non catalyzed H2O2 rise with time - the amount of free radicals released can be too high sooner or later.

When you handle free active radicals (that's the active component when you use H2O2 as a patogen killer) it could be wise to use food high in Thiamine because its a very potent anti radical agent

With some types of UV-C (low pressure mercury/amalgam tubes) a combination with peroxide is great. The UV-C will catalyze the release of the Peroxide extra O atom - hence speed up the forming of active oxygen radicals. Because manufactures seldom tell which type of tubes that they use - its difficult to know what you should buy. However - knowing that TMC normally use the right type of tubes - maybe the V2 Vecton 120 Nano Aquarium UV Steriliser can fit your demand. However - I have not tested it.

The idea that hydrogen peroxide is not active against fish parasites or that its not proven is false - just google "salmon lice peroxide"

I hope that this is information that will help you - however I can´t advise how you should treat this with other chemicals than peroxide because I have no experiences of it.

Sincerely Lasse

I'm curious @Lasse - Are you of the mind that UV and H2O2 act synergistically? Second - I agree with you that H2O2 can kill parasites - after all it's a disinfectant. My comment (if thats what you're referring to) - is that I'm not aware of its success rate in an aquarium setting as compared to a fish farm or bare tank set up. Since (as you said, there are many places for pathogens to 'hide' in a reef tank. Thanks!

 

[Lasse]

Are you of the mind that UV and H2O2 act synergistically?

Not only me

uv h2o2 advanced oxidation - Google Search

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Superlightman]

My tank is a 12 gallon long, filtration via Oase biomaster 250. Live rock, live sand, fish only for now. Ive been running a Söchting Oxydator since day one with 6% H2O2 and 1 catalyst. The tank has been running for 4 months.
First fish in was an oscellaris clown on day 3. 2 months later I added a tiny blue tang (plan to keep for a year and give to a friend with a 200 gallon), and six hermit crabs for cleanup. Everybody was happy until I added a royal gramma a month later.
A week later the RG and tang were covered in velvet. I know general consensus is to QT in a hospital tank, but I don’t have a set up and also I’m trying to figure out ways to strengthen display tanks so one day quarantine tanks aren’t necessary. I immediately upped the H2O2 to 12% and added an extra catalyst to the oxydator. I started dosing 2 ml of 3% H2O2 3 times a day, focusing on night times when the lights are out. I also put a cleaner shrimp in.
The cleaner shrimp did a massive job of cleaning the tang, but of course the velvet came back. For the last two weeks I’ve been in a cycle where the shrimp cleans the tang, tank keeps eating well, then of course the tang gets covered again.
The tang spends a lot of time around the oxydator, even resting there. It seems to do it’s job of providing an oxygen mask for him to breath easier. He eats great, but he can’t go on like this.
Here is my question. I’m looking for advice on what nano UV sterilizer to get? I know slow flow is key to kill free floating dinospores. Does anyone know a nano sized sterilizer with flow control slow enough for my 12 gallon tank?
Im very unhappy with my Oase canister (can’t keep it from constantly burping bubbles) and am going to set up a 5 gallon sump. So I could do a hang on back sterilizer, submersible or possibly one that would sit in a sump.
Anyone know a good nano sized UV sterilizer with slow enough flow to kill velvet and ich? Also any other advice is welcome.

Did you find a way to get ride of the velvet in a natural way?

 

[MnFish1]

Did you find a way to get ride of the velvet in a natural way?

Some fish will survive a velvet infection. Many will not. If all of your fish die, that will naturally get rid of a velvet infection (not being sarcastic here). Generally speaking - if you have a form of coral, etc that 'eats' velvet, or a potential bacteria/virus that attacks velvet that will get rid of it in a natural way - I'm not sure there is a product, etc that guarantees/suggests this

 

[Superlightman]

Some fish will survive a velvet infection. Many will not. If all of your fish die, that will naturally get rid of a velvet infection (not being sarcastic here). Generally speaking - if you have a form of coral, etc that 'eats' velvet, or a potential bacteria/virus that attacks velvet that will get rid of it in a natural way - I'm not sure there is a product, etc that guarantees/suggests this

Some seems to develop immunity but many not that is a big problem and they just came from a copper quarantine recently. And catch them on 365gallons..near impossible

 

[MnFish1]

Some seems to develop immunity but many not that is a big problem and they just came from a copper quarantine recently. And catch them on 365gallons..near impossible

Curious - what was your quarantine protocol