Oxydators and their fight against parasites.

[ramona]

2 of my photos one from my previous tank which I had to breakdown dow to moving house which was set up a good few years. The other my current tank mainly stocked with frags and needing to mature. Both of course run Oxydators.
First my mature previous tank.

Now my current tank very much work in progress.

If you don't mind, what lights are you using now?

 

[atoll]

If you don't mind, what lights are you using now?

2 x Orphek Atlantic V4 2s plus 2 x blue plus light bars

 

[Aqua Man]

What is the catalyst? Does it need replaced

Why does some models need more catalysts?

What is the maintenance or upkeep?
is refilling the H2O2 the only thing needed?

Thanks for the info!

 

[atoll]

What is the catalyst? Does it need replaced

Why does some models need more catalysts?

What is the maintenance or upkeep?
is refilling the H2O2 the only thing needed?

Thanks for the info!

The catalysts are made from a special ceramic impregnated with a little silver. They only need replacing after many years.

They don't need more catalysts as such but the more you put in the more super 02 is released. Like say turning up an ozoniser as an example.
So you put in the number of catalysts to the % of peroxide you are using and the total aquarium volume and stocking level plus feeding regime.

Yes you only fill and refill the Oxydator with hydrogen peroxide.

For more information there is an Oxydator user group on Facebook.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

Well i purchased an oxydizer and some 35% hydrogen peroxide to make my own solution. Should all be here in a couple weeks. Will be interesting to see if i notice any effects.

 

[Shawn2122]

@atoll,
I have followed your threads for a while and just added a model W to my 450-gallon reef[600 gallons total water. I may have started a little aggressive at 12% solution with 2 catalysts[should I reduce this?]. The tank is only 6 weeks old with some fish, CUC and 1 soft coral. I will let you know how it goes. Any other oxydator advice is appreciated.

 

[atoll]

@atoll,
I have followed your threads for a while and just added a model W to my 450-gallon reef[600 gallons total water. I may have started a little aggressive at 12% solution with 2 catalysts[should I reduce this?]. The tank is only 6 weeks old with some fish, CUC and 1 soft coral. I will let you know how it goes. Any other oxydator advice is appreciated.

If your tank has cycled and you are reasonsbly stocked then you should be fine. Let your eyes be the judge. If all is well 20mins after adding the oxydator with no corals reacting negatively then your good to go.
The best bit of advice apart from the above I can give you is to join the Oxydator user group on Facebook and check out the files section for lots of information and tips on using Oxydators.

 

[chris new reefer]

Hi @atoll
Hi @Lasse

the Ich never came back.
all fish are alive and happy.

but I have a question about other parasites.
Do you have experience using the oxidator against Brook or Velvet?

I have a tiny regal tang that started to show wierd symptoms.

He has white areas at his belly and some skin peelingtime to time.
He has it since 2 weeks.
beside that he is swimming active and eating good.
some random scratching on the rocks sometimes.

any help is highly appreciated.
Thank you so much
Chris

 

[atoll]

Hi @atoll
Hi @Lasse

the Ich never came back.
all fish are alive and happy.

but I have a question about other parasites.
Do you have experience using the oxidator against Brook or Velvet?

I have a tiny regal tang that started to show wierd symptoms.

He has white areas at his belly and some skin peelingtime to time.
He has it since 2 weeks.
beside that he is swimming active and eating good.
some random scratching on the rocks sometimes.

any help is highly appreciated.
Thank you so much
Chris

I have never experienced either of those parasites/diseases fortunately so I can't help much there with your question. This after using Oxydators in various saltwater aquariums over 30 years. Not only have I not had a single case of these but not a single case of itch in that time, nor any other disease that I could ever see nor skin issues as you describe. Lasse I am sure will be able to help further.

 

[atoll]

Some people have questioned as to if Oxydators kill micro organisms. Well if they do then certainly not all as my photograph of my Oxydator A shows.

 

[Lasse]

After 5 years

​

Not all here either

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dan_P]

So many people aren't aware that the use of an Oxydator is a great aid in not only warding off parasites like white spot but also reduce the the chances of your fish catching these types of parasites and helps fight the disease already in the tank.
I have read little about them in this forum but people all over are reporting great success with Oxydators and their usefulness in the fight against parasites and fish health in general. There is an Oxydator user group on Facebook with lots of info and case studies on the use of Oxydators.
Personally I have not had a single outbreak in any disease in any of my aquariums since using Oxydators in the 30 years I have been using them and I have never QTd a fish during that time.

Would controlled experiments help convince people that the Oxydator is not another “snake oil” product”?

@Paul B never quarantined fish during the years he had an aquarium (last time I saw, his take was a thousand years old). I believe he did not use an oxydator. His approach was to feed his fish well.

The Oxydator narrative is very compelling but it seems to be all anecdotal evidence. Where is the science?

 

[atoll]

Would controlled experiments help convince people that the Oxydator is not another “snake oil” product”?

@Paul B never quarantined fish during the years he had an aquarium (last time I saw, his take was a thousand years old). I believe he did not use an oxydator. His approach was to feed his fish well.

The Oxydator narrative is very compelling but it seems to be all anecdotal evidence. Where is the science?

Sorry am not a scientist.

 

[Lasse]

How peroxide work as a creator of oxygen radicals and also of O2 is shown in scientific works - the oxydator is only a way of dosing peroxide without electricity. If you want a second catalyze (create more O2) or not (create more radicals) is your choose. Hydrogen peroxide (its metabolites) have been shown to be antiviral, anti parasitic and bactericidal.

If it works or not in a system is a question of concentrations (as usally) and retention time of the radicals. Much organic in the water will lower the retention time (it will be oxidized first). Use of an oxidator lower the yellowing substances in the water in the same way as ozone.

Sincerely Lasse

 

[atoll]

How peroxide work as a creator of oxygen radicals and also of O2 is shown in scientific works - the oxydator is only a way of dosing peroxide without electricity. If you want a second catalyze (create more O2) or not (create more radicals) is your choose. Hydrogen peroxide (its metabolites) have been shown to be antiviral, anti parasitic and bactericidal.

If it works or not in a system is a question of concentrations (as usally) and retention time of the radicals. Much organic in the water will lower the retention time (it will be oxidized first). Use of an oxidator lower the yellowing substances in the water in the same way as ozone.

Sincerely Lasse

From Lasse a scientist.



Me, I am a retired carpenter although there is no such thing as a retired carpenter but I digress. I am aware of the science behind the Oxydator but only have practice and experience of using them for around 30 years along with some of my friends.

 

[Anthony Scholfield]

I just installed my first oxydator! It is an oxydator A in a water volume of approx. 40 gallons. I am diluting 35% hydrogen peroxide down to about 7% and using 2 catalysts. We will see if i notice anything or not. Either way i like the idea of oxygen rich water.

 

[atoll]

I just installed my first oxydator! It is an oxydator A in a water volume of approx. 40 gallons. I am diluting 35% hydrogen peroxide down to about 7% and using 2 catalysts. We will see if i notice anything or not. Either way i like the idea of oxygen rich water.

Things people often notice and report when using an Oxydator.
Increased vitality in fish.
Increased coloration.
Increased health.
Reduction in algae problems
Less frequent glass cleaning.
Increase in ORP.
Cleaner water.
Reduced yellowing.
Increased polyp extension in some corals.
Some remove UV while some stop using ozone or both. I personally no longer use either.

Of course you may not notice all of these in fact you may not notice any visual changes at all.
The above are culled from reports on the FB Oxydator group and from other forums. Incidental reports they may be but they are common things people witness when they try an Oxydator for the first time.

 

[Dan_P]

Things people often notice and report when using an Oxydator.
Increased vitality in fish.
Increased coloration.
Increased health.
Reduction in algae problems
Less frequent glass cleaning.
Increase in ORP.
Cleaner water.
Reduced yellowing.
Increased polyp extension in some corals.
Some remove UV while some stop using ozone or both. I personally no longer use either.

Of course you may not notice all of these in fact you may not notice any visual changes at all.
The above are culled from reports on the FB Oxydator group and from other forums. Incidental reports they may be but they are common things people witness when they try an Oxydator for the first time.

Not arguing about your observations but I do wonder if people see what they want to see.

All the “effects” are very broadly defined. I could easily see them if I were impressionable. I would be more inclined not to dismiss the Oxydator as non-sense if someone actually ran a controlled experiment, or collected good data demonstrating the effect. We have to remember that once a few observations have become “standard”, they are reported again and again whether they really exist or not.

By the way, I have read the patent for Oxydator and bought the small one to study it. It really does catalyze the decomposition of H2O2 inside the storage vessel and the built up of pressure does push out unreacted H2O2. As for the claims about what a tiny trickle of H2O2 produces, that’s where I have to say “really people?”

 

[Lasse]

Instead of using terms like snail oil - can you show any scientific evidences that it does not work in the long run? Or any scientific based theoretical discussions that indicate that it is not working as it say - bring oxygen into your tank? With other words it is not rising the oxygen level in the water- Ask any person rising fresh water shrimps about their experiences with oxidators and keeping shrimps alive. This experiences by a British shrimp aquarist is one of many that have make oxydators to one of the most used equipments in tanks with freshwater shrimps. From here

Sochting oxydator Purchasing this handy little device was a game changer for me in my shrimp tanks. Shrimp naturally come from highly oxygenated waters, which is why it is so important to have a lot of surface agitation/aeration in your tank. This is usually achieved by your filter output, as mentioned earlier, or an air stone.
The Sochting oxydator uses hydrogen peroxide to oxygenate your aquarium water. The glass container is filled with hydrogen peroxide, where it reacts with a catalyst (a little stone that sits inside the container). The reaction produces water and oxygen, and the oxygen diffuses into your tank through the grey ceramic bowl.
I was amazed at the difference I saw in my shrimps’ behavior once I added the oxydator. They were especially useful during the hot London summers and oxygen levels were dangerously low, as warmer waters retain less dissolved oxygen. I had many shrimp deaths despite extra aeration, cooling fans, and water changes. The oxydator was the only thing that made a difference. They’ve been a mainstay in my shrimp tanks ever since.

Let do some mat. I have a Oxydator A and if it is filled up with 12% hydrogen peroxid it will give a total around 20,000 mg O2 total catalysed - it is the extra O the peroxid cary (figures from Oxydator A:s manual and it is the producers figures - recalculated) In my case - I use three catalyst and all will be dosed out in the aquarium during 7 days in 25 degree C - it means I dose (if all become O2) around 2,857 mg/day to my 310 L aquarium. Normal content of O2 in 25 % saltwater is around 6.5 mg/L oxygen - giving a total amount of Oxygen (100 % saturated) of 1,300 mg in my aquarium. This means that I each day can have a consumption of all my oxygen in the aquarium twice and still have the aquarium saturated with oxygen. This is enough for me in order to understand how important this tool can be. Only the amount of oxygen it can give is a prove by itself. In my case - not all hydrogen peroxide will be directly oxidized (the concentration and rate of dosing) some of it will forn active oxygens radicals out in the water - catalyzed of the iron in the water (I dose iron too)

Sincerely Lasse

 

[Dan_P]

Instead of using terms like snail oil - can you show any scientific evidences that it does not work in the long run? Or any scientific based theoretical discussions that indicate that it is not working as it say - bring oxygen into your tank? With other words it is not rising the oxygen level in the water- Ask any person rising fresh water shrimps about their experiences with oxidators and keeping shrimps alive. This experiences by a British shrimp aquarist is one of many that have make oxydators to one of the most used equipments in tanks with freshwater shrimps. From here



Let do some mat. I have a Oxydator A and if it is filled up with 12% hydrogen peroxid it will give a total around 20,000 mg O2 total catalysed - it is the extra O the peroxid cary (figures from Oxydator A:s manual and it is the producers figures - recalculated) In my case - I use three catalyst and all will be dosed out in the aquarium during 7 days in 25 degree C - it means I dose (if all become O2) around 2,857 mg/day to my 310 L aquarium. Normal content of O2 in 25 % saltwater is around 6.5 mg/L oxygen - giving a total amount of Oxygen (100 % saturated) of 1,300 mg in my aquarium. This means that I each day can have a consumption of all my oxygen in the aquarium twice and still have the aquarium saturated with oxygen. This is enough for me in order to understand how important this tool can be. Only the amount of oxygen it can give is a prove by itself. In my case - not all hydrogen peroxide will be directly oxidized (the concentration and rate of dosing) some of it will forn active oxygens radicals out in the water - catalyzed of the iron in the water (I dose iron too)

Sincerely Lasse

You cannot prove a negative, so, I won’t spend any lab time trying to prove the Oxydator does not work. So let’s move to looking for solid evidence for the many claims. I like your math example. It represents something a bit more substantial than anecdotal evidence to discuss.

Since we do not know the O2 level with and without the Oxydator in the aquarium in your example, claiming the Oxydator oxygenates the aquarium water to any significant degree is an assumption. We also do not know the normal flux of O2 from the atmosphere to the aquarium water per day, and therefore, we cannot tell whether the potential extra oxygen from the Oxydator really matters. Why “potential“ oxygen? As you rightly pointed out earlier, the fate of H2O2 is highly dependent on many things, Fe content and organic matter concentration being just two of them. Whether the H2O2 from the Oxydator increases the oxygen in the system or is removed from the system by oxidizing organic matter is unknown. In turn, because the distribution of H2O2 between these two fates is unknown, the amount of oxygen added by the Oxydator is unknown. All this makes claims about the Oxydator adding a substantial amount of oxygen questionable.

Dan