Paid LFS to plumb my tank...did I get ripped off?

[K7BMG]

I am an electrical contractor and have run into the cost issue many times.

I am not defending the LFS in any way, and yes it seems to be a tad high on the cost. IMO.

But here is my take and I will use my trade as the example.
I get customers that call and they want to me to install a celling fan.
I charge a base price of $225.00 for this service with a customer provided fan and a existing ceiling outlet that is rated for the weight of the fan, and in town. Most will claim highway robbery.

Here is my breakdown.
Labor starts from when my employee leaves and heads to the job.
Is this fair, I think so but you tell me, some say no way but, my employee gets paid for every hour he is working.
That's if he is driving to a job or on the job. So if he is being paid I have to charge for this time.
Sometimes it can take better than an hour to get to around due to traffic and so fourth.
It also averages an hour and a half onsite to, introduce oneself, bring in ladder, and tools, inevitably move furniture, and or cover furniture and floors with tarps, remove the old fixture or fan, assemble the new fan, Balance the thing remove tools and clean up.
Then there are the other expenses, some were mentioned already.
Fuel
Truck insurance
Truck maintenance.
City business license.
Contractors license.
The big one Liability insurance.
If that fan comes down or a blade comes off, it will severely injure a person, and I am done for.
The cheaper the fan the more risk involved for failure.
One electrical contractor was put out of business because one of the sticky weights flew off the top of the blade and and blinded the resident in one eye. Unfortunate situation for both, but that's the risk.
So am I going to take that risk! Yes but not for a few measly bucks.
IF something gets broken bringing in tools and ladders, or a floor gets scratched, its on me to repair or replace.
My deductible for this type of thing is $2,500.00, so yes its an out of pocket expense.

But in the end most will seek another as I am considered way to expensive. But am I ???
Anyway that's ok with me.

Now I know this is not an apples to apples comparison.
The LFS person I doubt makes skilled tradesmen wages, and is probably in there own car or the owners car not a service truck with a 3 million dollar insurance policy, and doubt there is any general liability policy of any kind.
But IMO as a business I would probably charge $150.00 for this plumbing job.

 

[Valum]

They could, but I feel the ratchet clamps get a tighter grip.

Yeh but with it being a submerged return your not worried about leaks id just make sure it won't come off if moved slightly and of it doesn't it will be fine clipless

 

[robbyg]

I will just be frank and say that I am not impressed with any part of that job and especially not at that price!
On the other hand there is the pandemic to consider and I personally would not under any circumstances take any job at another persons house unless it was well worth the risk.

 

[av8soulfly]

This last picture shows all the bubbles from the return. The Durso standpipe came from a box kit, he pulled out so no measuring was done for my tank at all.
What can I replace the metal hose clamp with that won’t leech anything in the water but will also be secure?

I just replaced my Durso standpipe due to too much noise. I had the 2 large holes on each side like yours has. That's where your toilet flushing sound is coming from. I replaced the elbow with no holes, only a small one at the top and put a 2 inch piece of airline tubing sticking out of it and my Durso runs silent now.

 

[Conovan]

I am an electrical contractor and have run into the cost issue many times.

I am not defending the LFS in any way, and yes it seems to be a tad high on the cost. IMO.

But here is my take and I will use my trade as the example.
I get customers that call and they want to me to install a celling fan.
I charge a base price of $225.00 for this service with a customer provided fan and a existing ceiling outlet that is rated for the weight of the fan, and in town. Most will claim highway robbery.

Here is my breakdown.
Labor starts from when my employee leaves and heads to the job.
Is this fair, I think so but you tell me, some say no way but, my employee gets paid for every hour he is working.
That's if he is driving to a job or on the job. So if he is being paid I have to charge for this time.
Sometimes it can take better than an hour to get to around due to traffic and so fourth.
It also averages an hour and a half onsite to, introduce oneself, bring in ladder, and tools, inevitably move furniture, and or cover furniture and floors with tarps, remove the old fixture or fan, assemble the new fan, Balance the thing remove tools and clean up.
Then there are the other expenses, some were mentioned already.
Fuel
Truck insurance
Truck maintenance.
City business license.
Contractors license.
The big one Liability insurance.
If that fan comes down or a blade comes off, it will severely injure a person, and I am done for.
The cheaper the fan the more risk involved for failure.
One electrical contractor was put out of business because one of the sticky weights flew off the top of the blade and and blinded the resident in one eye. Unfortunate situation for both, but that's the risk.
So am I going to take that risk! Yes but not for a few measly bucks.
IF something gets broken bringing in tools and ladders, or a floor gets scratched, its on me to repair or replace.
My deductible for this type of thing is $2,500.00, so yes its an out of pocket expense.

But in the end most will seek another as I am considered way to expensive. But am I ???
Anyway that's ok with me.

Now I know this is not an apples to apples comparison.
The LFS person I doubt makes skilled tradesmen wages, and is probably in there own car or the owners car not a service truck with a 3 million dollar insurance policy, and doubt there is any general liability policy of any kind.
But IMO as a business I would probably charge $150.00 for this plumbing job.

18 years of electrical work tells me I would have been clear on what the customer wanted and not left the jobsite without verifying it was acceptable. Worst case senario I would have told them they needed to dig deeper in their pockets to get exactly what they wanted.

My problem would be less with the cost and more with not delivering a good service experience. Your prices seem a little on the high side but not in the outrageous. I used to charge similar, but I also think of service calls being more of a courtosy and possibility for social networking rather than a money maker.

 

[Squidward]

Wow that sucks. It was a rip off. And not even using pvc piping with valves, etc. Doesn't sound like a professional job at all. I feel bad for you. ;Sorry

 

[Valum]

I think since my scheduling was messed up they sent someone other than the person I was talking to. And part of it might have been my fault, I never actually said the words “herbie drain” or “plumb with pvc”. I just assumed since I had been texting them pictures of my setup that I tried to do that they would know what I wanted. All I needed help with was making sure everything was cut and glued properly, since that’s what I couldn’t get right.

Regardless they should have explained the process or what they were doing I'm a mechanic I wouldn't turn up and change someone's tyres because they are illegal I'd have to explain why they need changing recommend a type of tyre and a price and see what the customer wants from there as for price it's probably ok but not for the final product you got

I've had blinds fitted before now and the guy who did the quote explained it to me and when he got there to fit he explained again where the holes would be and is that ok

 

[Perthegallon]

God that’s a horrible job for 330$ I’m sorry but god that’s bad

 

[Lightspeed]

$330, well that's pretty disgraceful for a few metres of cheap flexible hose.

Here in Australia that converts to around $460, i could have a licensed Plumber do the job for me in all hard line PVC for less than that and you would have ball unions and gate valve.
@Uptowngirl , love you were definitely had on that one. The LFS and installer have probably been having a good laugh at your expense.

Seeing this kind of thing really grinds my gears:mad:, who out there with a conscience could justify the work and the labor and parts charge.

 

[CrunchyBananas]

Yeh but with it being a submerged return your not worried about leaks id just make sure it won't come off if moved slightly and of it doesn't it will be fine clipless

Yup, I honestly don't even run clamps on barb fittings when they are submerged most the time. Either way, the ratchet ones are easier to undo and reuse anyways.

 

[Cell]

Did you pay extra for emergency or same day service, perhaps?

 

[charlesk]

I would call the lfs owner and complain.

 

[EMeyer]

Seeing this kind of thing really grinds my gears:mad:, who out there with a conscience could justify the work and the labor and parts charge.

Agreed.

I think we've already seen in this thread how people try to 'justify' it -- by adding up all expenses their business has, and trying to cover all those expenses on this one job. Creative accounting!

 

[Valum]

Agreed.

I think we've already seen in this thread how people try to 'justify' it -- by adding up all expenses their business has, and trying to cover all those expenses on this one job. Creative accounting!

I don't think the cost is an issue it's more the product for the price I'd say it would be decent of it was done how the OP wanted it, but what's the cost of replacement bottom panel of glass that's a reallt easy to shatter when drilling

 

[Variant]

In a world increasingly dominated by online retail, how can a respectable LFS screw over their local customers? I would no longer shop at that store. The store clearly has no passion left...

I am mad for you...

 

[mitch91175]

For that price id expect my plumbing to be pimped out. Color matched, spears gatevalves/unions.

No you couldn’t get all that for that price

 

[mitch91175]

In a world increasingly dominated by online retail, how can a respectable LFS screw over their local customers? I would no longer shop at that store. The store clearly has no passion left...

I am mad for you...

Happens more than you would think. That’s why a lot of LFS go out of business.

 

[Cell]

Cost aside, if the OP didn't specifically communicate that they wanted a modified setup, I don't completely blame the installer for installing the style of plumbing the tank was designed for (the submerged metal clamp is for sure an issue). We also don't know the level of communication between OP and installer. If the OP called the LFS and said, "This is an emergency, come over ASAP" and they come over and the OP says, "Idk how to plumb this tank, I have this elbow here, just fix it", and they go ahead and install the recommended stock plumbing, then this may not be as sinister as some may believe.

Did it happen like this? Maybe, maybe not. We don't really know.

 

[K7BMG]

18 years of electrical work tells me I would have been clear on what the customer wanted and not left the jobsite without verifying it was acceptable. Worst case senario I would have told them they needed to dig deeper in their pockets to get exactly what they wanted.

My problem would be less with the cost and more with not delivering a good service experience. Your prices seem a little on the high side but not in the outrageous. I used to charge similar, but I also think of service calls being more of a courtosy and possibility for social networking rather than a money maker.

I used to do a lot more residential work back in the day.
Now I specialize on Class 1 Div 1 instalations.
Gas Stations, bulk plants, paint booths, etc.
Social Networking for me was Hot Tubs for Clients "friends"
You know the Spa hacks that normally do the spa installs.
So I would do the job and out of the 100 plus installs I think I was paid for maybe 10. Lol.
So I did my charity work time and again.

 

[Dburr1014]

I upgraded my tank from a 29 aio biocube to a 90 gallon with a 30 gallon sump. I’m not a handy person at all and had no experience plumbing a tank but I tried anyway and I had a leak coming from some of the pvc. I got freaked out and contacted to LFS to do it for me.
The appointment time was 9:30, but 10 rolls around and no one was there. I call and they said they would send someone at 11. A little annoying but I figure mistakes happen. An hour later they say my tank is plumbed, I pay them $330 and they leave.
The did a durso drain whereas I had a herbie drain set up initially. They used all flexible pvc except for the main standpipe and part of the return. And absolutely no valves to control any of the flow. Also used a stainless steel hose clamp to secure the flexible tubing to the return pump, but I though exposed metal in the water was a big no-no.
I tried not to be too upset and filled up my tank. I thought they were professionals and knew what they were doing. Once I got all the water in and turned on the return, it is loud. I mean loud, like a toilet flushing next to my tv every 2 seconds. The return is putting crazy amounts of bubbles into my tank, which doesn’t seem too bad, just not aesthetically pleasing to me.
I’m really not impressed with the work they did, especially for the price. Am I overreacting? Any advice on how to make this tank quieter?
I think you answered your own question. Sorry this happened but, yes you can make it quiet yourself. Personally, I would take a video and go down to the store and show the owner or just have him stop by. That's crazy.
First thing to make it much quieter is to make the stand pipe higher so the water has less room to fall.